At long last - money for trains

The airports are bursting at the seams, the I-5 is a parking lot from La Jolla to the north end of Los Angeles and we don't need an alternative because some one with 2 dimes to rub together might get a benefit?
Fine, let the fat cats get richer, as long as I can travel. Planes are expensive and miserably cramped and cars are a slow way to move long distances. I want a nice spacious and affordable train, and if they let rich people ride it that's no skin off my nose.

:cool:Claude
 
And here I thought that was just the 405 that was called a parking lot at rush hour.:hehe: Its faster to take the PCH, during rush hour, even with all of the stop lights than the 405. It's faster to take the surface streets at times in LA..
 
Just heard about this yesterday!

I think this is a monumental time for railroading here, we've needed it for so long.
And at last, 110 miles per hour, Chicago to St.Louis! Cheers!
Florida getting some, wow, this is wonderful.

For the most part, I don't like Barack Obama, but he was no fool with this move!



Cheers,
Woody:wave:
 
I have never been to Chicago. I do get to Los Angeles and San Diego from time to time but don't know about the I-405 situation.
As I mentioned , I do know about the LACK of congestion on I-5 and US-101 between the Bay Area and the L.A. basin. I do know there is allot of air traffic between the two areas. I do not know if there is "too" much of it.
High speed rail between L.A. and the Bay Area is a waste of money and effort that could better be used elsewhere.
By the way, in Southern California, how many will commute via HSR? Very few I would guess.
 
I can see this being helpful in and around the Orlando-Tampa, Miami triangle. There's a lot of tourist traffic and congestion down there in that region. By using highspeed rail, this will help ease the congestion and lower the amount of air pollution caused by cars sitting in traffic.

I think that this is a great start in the right direction. Regional highspeed routes actually help the local economies. Many towns benefit by having station station stops even for local services. People stop for magazines, coffee, and sandwiches so the local business benefit. This has been the results of some of the towns along the Downeaster route to Portland, and in and around the local commuter stations in and around the Boston area.

This may not sound like a lot of business, but the results are obvious. Back in the 1950s and 1960s as the interstate highway system was built, the highways bypassed many small towns in the process. The towns withered away as businesses moved near the highway interchanges instead of being in the downtown areas. This is obvious through out the Midwest on the I70 and I90 corridors and along the Route 495 corridor in Mass. I grew up in Merrimac, MA whose main street was the main road to the shore. When Route 495 opened up in the early 1960s, many small restaurants and stores closed, and much of the town had empty buildings for the longest time. If you were to drive from Haverhill to Salisbury today, you'll still see many empty restaurant buildings along the route.

Sadly though many rail corridors have been ripped up and made into trails, or worse built right over. These areas in many cases are very congested and lack any other transportation other than automobiles. I used to work in Bedford,MA which once had a commuter line. During the "cost-cutting" days of the 1970s, this line was abandoned. This was also due in part of the MBTA converting a rail line to third-rail subway. The service was supposed to run out to Arlington either as a third-rail line or light rail, then the commuter train out to Hanscom Field and Bedford.

Well all of this got cut up and made into a bike trail instead. The towns didn't want the riff-raff taking the subway out to the suburbs. Now the area is so congested, it can take 30 minutes to go from one side of town to the other because the traffic is so thick.

John
 
...By the way, in Southern California, how many will commute via HSR? Very few I would guess.
Probably not. How many people commute by airline? Not many.
High speed rail is for intercity travel like an airline, not for routine commuting like a city bus. How does the street by your house reduce gridlock here in El Cajon? Was it a waste of money? How many people use it to commute to Sacramento each day?
I'm glad you live in one of the magical few places in SoCal not affected by traffic. The last gas spike and the current economy have combined to really reduce frivolous travel, so the roads are a little better, but unless you can convince people to stop existing, the population growth will fill in the gaps in not too many years. Meanwhile, most of the airports are operating at close to maximum capacity and it's very difficult to built a facility that size these days. We've been working on a replacement for San Diego Lindbergh Field for nearly 50 years now and all we've been able to accomplish is to find out we have no idea where we can build one.
No, high speed rail won't solve all the problems in the state, but it can ease the airport problem for a very long time for less than the cost of one airport. Other benefits will become apparent as we bring it on line. Properly operated, this will be a great boon to the economy. It's up to us to see that it's well run.

:cool:Claude
 
About San Diego. Why not move the airport to North Island? I am not saying there is no reason but, why not?
Then perhaps the new HSR station could be at the old terminal side of Lindburg Field?
 
Last edited:
There's an airbase in North Island and the Navy wants to keep it. They tried to give us Miramar, but the politicians forced them to stay there. So they gave it to the Marines and left anyway.
I want the High speed rail terminal in Mission Valley, where the football statium is. It's right where the I-15 corridor crosses the Trolley line, so it can interface directly with the trolley station for people wanting to go downtown.
There's talk of making Lindbergh Field a Transportation Hub! with rail and air terminals all together. The roads are choked enough with just the airport.
Ironically, people fought moving the airport to Miramar because it was too close to the city and would cause noise problems (unlike military jets taking off with full afterburner). The first time they tried to leave after WWII we didn't want it because it was too far from town. Now they're talking about a mag-lev train to a new airport in El Centro.

:cool:Claude
 
I can see this being helpful in and around the Orlando-Tampa, Miami triangle. There's a lot of tourist traffic and congestion down there in that region. By using highspeed rail, this will help ease the congestion and lower the amount of air pollution caused by cars sitting in traffic.

The $1.25B for FL is ~1/3 of the $3.5B the first 84 miles will cost ($41M/mile). The Orlando to Miami leg will be $8B. How many bridges do you think that could repair or replace? They project it to make a 2% profit ($52M against $51M in costs) but that figure doesn't take into account debt service and it's based on ridership not yet in evidence. In fact the plan doesn't address self-sustainability at all.

Look at where the FL Phase 1 will stop: about a 8 miles from the Tampa airport, Lakeland/Plant City, Disney, OCCC, and a part they haven't built yet. Just who are we taking off the road? The backup on west bound I4 starts in Seminole county on Fridays. This plan won't fix that. Any time or cost savings will be lost dealing with getting where you really wanted to go at either end. Unless, that is, you're a tourist trying to get to the Mouse.

I'm afraid this is the cross-Florida barge canal of the new millenium. A tax sink that goes nowhere.

Anyone who actually thinks this thing will be done in 2014 should lay off the recreational pharmceuticals. Same goes for that $3.5B pricetag.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of mass transit. I'd love to have access to a system that could get me to and from work in a reasonable time for a reasonable cost. But, this is a typical boondoggle. The study only addresses building a piece of a system. No one has yet don't any serious systems analysis to determine if this step moves us closer to any kind of solution.

Besides, wouldn't it make more sense to build HSR with something newer than an electric train? Say something that doesn't have the potential for conflict with surface traffic.

And before we get all excited about this new era, the $8B Obama doled out is 0.2% (yeah, thats 2/10 of 1%) of the $3.8T monstrosity he sent to Congress.
 
Remember Mark that this is only the initial phase and the first study. So hopefully once they start building and tweaking the system, they'll revise things such as adding branches to the airport, or perhaps rerouting to the airport if you're lucky. Sadly this is the first time in many years that money is being put towards rail, and even more sad, knowing how the government agencies work, the officials don't know what to do with it, and typical of government, they'll mismanage the whole project right from the beginning. Look at the Big Dig, and many other projects around the country.

I agree this small drop in the bucket towards passenger/rail service pales miserably from what is spent in Europe and Asia. Unfortunately the US cities are spread out over thousands of miles unlike the Europe and parts of Asia where the population centers are concentrated. The middle portion of the US is very lightly populated. I know. I've traveled across the mid-continent, and there are towns there with populations as small as 350 people! This is not an area where highspeed rail would be worth the investment. There's not enough towns or population in general to support the expense.

I agree they should look to something better than regular train service, but this is the technology that works best right now. If done properly, like in Europe or Japan, we could have a very successful system.

Where I live up here in New England, we have a mess near the airports and in and around the cities. Manchester has a rail branch that was ripped up. This is the former M&L route from Manchester to Lawrence. When the airport was built, and recently expanded, they built over the ROW. So now sadly there's no way to restore service on it. North of that, the line was pulled up and replaced with a trail. The Concord Mainline is too far away from the airport for any kind of direct service, so the only way would be to have local buses connect the two.

In general up here we seem to be forgotten when it comes to rail expansion. The eastern part of the Merrimack Valley "died" around 1970 after the shoe industry went, and we've never recovered industrially since. This isn't to say that we don't have a high population. Instead of working locally, the focus has been on the Boston area so now the people that used to work locally, now work in and around Boston. We have commuter rail service , but not at the same frequency as the rest of the state. In fact our roads are clogged with cars that come from points north, and the majority of the drivers work in Boston. This makes commuting, even locally, a hazard and a real nightmare. When it comes to holiday weekends, and summer time traffic, a local trip from Lowell to Haverhill can take up to 4 hours because fo the traffic. When I worked in Woburn, Bedford, and Lowell, I would wait until very late, or leave very early to beat the traffic home. This makes it very discouraging, and I no longer visit the beach in the summer months because of this and dread going to work or school during the holiday seasons.

The Lowell corridor at least has hourly service. We're lucky if we see one train every 2 hours up here on the Merrmack Valley Line, and they stop the trains at midnight along with a long gap between the last rush hour train and the midnight train. This makes working late in the city bad, and going in and out for pleasure. Believe me, I've been there and done that way too many times. Sadly I had to call for a ride from Reading, which is close to Boston because that's where the in between trains terminate.

Another area that lacks trains is the seacoast. The line to Portsmouth died when the bridge went out in Newburyport. The commuter rail goes as far as Newbury, and the tracks are gone from there. The Portsmouth end is freight only at once a week if that, and the line south to Salisbury is pretty much abandoned south of Seabrook. This area too is a total disaster trying to get in and out of during the summer because of the tourist business.

I think if local governments were more in tune, or as I should say more in the loop on the development process, then there would be less of a chance of things going wrong such as bypassing the airports and city centers. Unfortunately they are either dis-interested in the design phase, or are never included so this is the way things seem to go, at least in this country.

John
 
Last edited:
Melbourne - Sydney is one of the world's busiest air routes (so I heard somewhere :o ), and about right for High Speed Rail. Perhaps one day? It might even avoid the need for another Airport in Sydney.

Don't see it ever reaching Adelaide though...

Paul
It takes 10 hours on the XPT
JAmie
 
So it seems Indianapolis has been made "the next LA!":hehe: I thought Atlanta was to be that, but we have the MARTA subway. Granted, MARTA hasn't been allowed to grow to its full potential, but at least the city has "got its foot in the door!"
Just yesterday I went for a ride on the latest light-rail line to be opened in LA, and there's a couple more being started right now. I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Mick Berg.
 
Back
Top