Are Pofig speedtrees still available?

[RRSignal]

Not to be a PITA but this kind of thing is exactly why non-DLS content is to be avoided altogether. There are too many variables, and too many people who walk away from the scene. Yes, I do understand that some rogue dips are uploading his content without authorization, but, at the end of the day, too many problems remain for us Trainzers. We already had some major routes cancelled because of third-party vaporware policies. Ugh.

The thing is, since Pofig's trees are only REFERENCED in routes, the licensure terms have no merit as presented and are completely unenforceable. Too bad the average person can't read at a 5th-grade level...

 

[dricketts]

Not to be a PITA but this kind of thing is exactly why non-DLS content is to be avoided altogether. There are too many variables, and too many people who walk away from the scene. Yes, I do understand that some rogue dips are uploading his content without authorization, but, at the end of the day, too many problems remain for us Trainzers. We already had some major routes cancelled because of third-party vaporware policies. Ugh.

The thing is, since Pofig's trees are only REFERENCED in routes, the licensure terms have no merit as presented and are completely unenforceable. Too bad the average person can't read at a 5th-grade level...

So does that mean you're hosting them? I'll point everybody to your site.

 

[clam1952]

No email address that I can find on his site and nothing for pm or email on here. There is an English Forum section, but it doesn't look like he responds there.

 

[RRSignal]

So does that mean you're hosting them? I'll point everybody to your site.

Hmm, did I ever run the Auran Download Station? Must'of missed that...

Of course, not interested in running yet another fly-by-night Trainz website. In simpler words: 90% of the Trainz sites out there.

 

[dragonharh]

I downloaded alot of his trees Here: http://429786.ucoz.net/load/0-1 This link stell works I saved alot of his trees on a flash drive for DP incase I every needed them prolbey a wise idea to do on these kind of sites.

 

[dricketts]

Hmm, did I ever run the Auran Download Station? Must'of missed that...

Of course, not interested in running yet another fly-by-night Trainz website. In simpler words: 90% of the Trainz sites out there.

I guess I'm missing something. They are not hosted anywhere now, correct? If I understand he was pretty open to them being hosted on an individual's site but not the DLS. I agree if they were on the DLS it would be great for you, me, and anyone else. As we all know once you have uploaded to the DLS your content can show up in the next version of Trainz and the creator doesn't get paid a dime. So I can understand if a creator wants to keep their stuff off the DLS even though it's not the most convenient way for me to find their content.

 

[RRSignal]

I guess I'm missing something. They are not hosted anywhere now, correct? If I understand correctly he was pretty open to them being hosted on an individual's site but not the DLS. I agree if they were on the DLS it would be great for you, me, and anyone else. As we all know once you have uploaded to the DLS your content can show up in the next version of Trainz and the creator doesn't get paid a dime. So I can understand if a creator wants to keep their stuff off the DLS even though it's not the most convenient way for me to find their content.

But they are only referenced in routes and sessions - not physically included. Intellectual property law is pretty well stated as far as that goes: It's fair use.

It actually isn't even that restrictive. There are absolutely zero protections for Pofig's license. Here's why:

Let's say you publish a book on something train-related (or whatever). I can legally base, say, my own book, a term paper, research paper, etc. in part or in principal on your book. That's fully legal, and fair use. It's done all the time, and is, in fact, the basis of much of the publishing industry. It's settled law.

The thing is, Trainz routes and sessions don't even go nearly as far as the law fully permits; you merely REFERENCE an object, but not include it. That's what Trainz routes are all about. The law actually would allow you to INCLUDE the object, in part if not in whole, depending on the purpose. However, because they are separable, the SpeedTree license is really unenforceable, since his trees are merely objects and they may or may not be referenced in payware.

Unfortunately, this entire situation represents how ill-informed people who can't read plain-text language can be so easily intimidated by amazingly simple laws that could protect then, but don't, out of ignorance.

Nevermind that few copyright holders have any real experience with same and realize that any such claims can easily backfire, badly.

 

[dricketts]

I'm not arguing any of the points you make but that doesn't address... how are we going to make his content easily accessible to the community if he is not making it available due to lack of interest in Trainz?

Maybe you're saying we should be able to release his content with our route.

 

[dragonharh]

If pofig wonts I can host this work on my site but it would have to be in bulk packs.

 

[slabay]

Does anyone know how to make Sporbust's locos work in TS12??

Oh, wait....that's the other issue that keeps coming up in a zillion threads! The problem with Pofig's trees and the DLS has nothing to do with routes referencing them or anything like that. The issue is that the software used to create the SpeedTrees is very expensive. Pofig's license only allows free distribution, and does not allow his content to be sold. Sure, if the trees are on the DLS, they are not being sold, and the routes using the trees are only referencing the trees, but by uploading the trees to the DLS, you allow Auran/N3V to use/include the content in future releases of commercial software, which does violate his SpeedTrees license.

I don't know if he has his PMs turned off or if his box is full (I honestly haven't tried to send him a PM), but try messaging him here. He just posted in another thread in the past day or two.

 

[Retro00064]

But they are only referenced in routes and sessions - not physically included. Intellectual property law is pretty well stated as far as that goes: It's fair use.

It actually isn't even that restrictive. There are absolutely zero protections for Pofig's license. Here's why:

Let's say you publish a book on something train-related (or whatever). I can legally base, say, my own book, a term paper, research paper, etc. in part or in principal on your book. That's fully legal, and fair use. It's done all the time, and is, in fact, the basis of much of the publishing industry. It's settled law.

The thing is, Trainz routes and sessions don't even go nearly as far as the law fully permits; you merely REFERENCE an object, but not include it. That's what Trainz routes are all about. The law actually would allow you to INCLUDE the object, in part if not in whole, depending on the purpose. However, because they are separable, the SpeedTree license is really unenforceable, since his trees are merely objects and they may or may not be referenced in payware.

Unfortunately, this entire situation represents how ill-informed people who can't read plain-text language can be so easily intimidated by amazingly simple laws that could protect then, but don't, out of ignorance.

Nevermind that few copyright holders have any real experience with same and realize that any such claims can easily backfire, badly.

(Slabay beat me to this.) I don't think he's talking about using content in payware routes. He's talking about the fact that by uploading content to the DLS, you grant a license to N3V to distribute your content, including for profit, such as by including it as built-in content in future versions of Trainz. See the section "N3V's rights" of the Download Station License Agreement on the TrainzOnline Wiki here.

This is a legitimate concern if your content contains work by others that is licensed to you under a license that prohibits distributing the work commercially/as payware, or in Pofig's case, his SpeedTree license prohibiting him for using the modeler to make content that can be distributed for profit. As for content creators including a "do not use in payware routes" clause in their licenses simply because they don't want their content to be used in payware routes, I disagree with this; seriously, what is so wrong about route creators seeking some reimbursement for days, week, months, maybe even years of work that is building their routes that you feel they shouldn't be allowed to use your content in their routes?

For those aforementioned instances where you have to avoid the DLS because of being subjected to no-commercial-use licenses by others, I vote for the TPR Download Depot as a central location for uploading content. One's own website can still be useful as a location to distribute other stuff related to the content, such as source files for those who create free and open-source content, and as a location for cataloging all of your available content and maybe also works in progress.

 

[Paulsw2]

This issue has been discussed on other threads. Pofig's speedtree license does not allow him to upload to the DLS, but he has allowed generous terms for redistribution of his assets elsewhere. I've suggested that his entire tree set be uploaded to TPR, which provides a trustworthy alternative to the DLS, but I would like to have his explicit permission before doing this. I'm heartened to hear that he has been posting on these forums again recently. Now, if we had a Russian speaker available, perhaps we could make contact?

Paul

EDIT: just tried to send him a PM, but he's not receiving them. How to contact him?!

 

[dricketts]

I've sent him a pm but no response in over a week. I'll keep my fingers crossed...