AI Drivers Disobeying the laws of physics?

M

MrJSeRiOuS

New member
Hey everyone. I have a query about the AI drivers. I hope this is the right section for this question, I wasn't sure where I should post it.

I've been fiddling about with surveyor for a while now and I've noticed something rather odd. When You set up AI to run from one point to another they seem to automatically drive in easy mode with arcade physics, even when the session is set to realistic. For example if I drive my GWR 7200 in full sim mode up a steep hill it cant handle it slows down stalls and heads back in the other direction, however if I let the AI tackle the same obstacle it powers up the hill as if nothing is there, Why is this? Is there a way to set it to realistic physics and control? Its just I want the AI to have the same characteristics as me and need help up hills or take it slow around sharp corners but I cant figure out how to make it do so.

If anyone knows how to change this it would be much appreciated, I've spent a long time trying to figure it out but to no avail.

Thanks. :)
 
Welcome to the forums.

The first question for you is: do you drive your (player-controlled train) in Cab mode (using the controls in the cab) or DCC mode (using a dial at the top right of the screen)?

Shane
 
Shane, he is talking about the AI, not doing it himself.

The question of the OP is: Can we get AI to use Cab mode (it currently uses DCC mode)?
 
The reason I asked that is because he also mentioned doing it himself in the same post, and there are differences in how the AI works if the OP normally uses Cab mode for example.

OP: If Oknotsen's understanding is correct, then no, the AI only uses DCC mode which is hard-coded into the game.

Shane
 
Oknotsen's translation was what I meant. I play in cab mode. Sucks that the AI only uses DCC, it means they act a bit unrealistically, but ah well, I'll just work around it. Maybe they'll add Cab mode for AI in a later version? Trainz 2014 or somthing :P Till then I'll just force them to use backing engines even if they don't need them. Thanks for all the help guys
 
having the AI drive in cab mode would likely be very performance expensive. the real way to accomplish the look and feel of cab mode is to adjust the DCC settings in the engine spec. these tags contain simple force values that tell DCC what we can and cannot do. it is possible to stall the AI on a hill.
 
norfolksouthern37 said:
having the AI drive in cab mode would likely be very performance expensive. the real way to accomplish the look and feel of cab mode is to adjust the DCC settings in the engine spec. these tags contain simple force values that tell DCC what we can and cannot do. it is possible to stall the AI on a hill.
Click to expand...

I agree, there are definitely limits to what A1 drivers can do too and when too much is asked of them the game 'kicks back' between DCC and Cab mode and the locos stall.
 
MrJSeRiOuS said:
Hey everyone. I have a query about the AI drivers. I hope this is the right section for this question, I wasn't sure where I should post it.

I've been fiddling about with surveyor for a while now and I've noticed something rather odd. When You set up AI to run from one point to another they seem to automatically drive in easy mode with arcade physics, even when the session is set to realistic. For example if I drive my GWR 7200 in full sim mode up a steep hill it cant handle it slows down stalls and heads back in the other direction, however if I let the AI tackle the same obstacle it powers up the hill as if nothing is there, Why is this? Is there a way to set it to realistic physics and control? Its just I want the AI to have the same characteristics as me and need help up hills or take it slow around sharp corners but I cant figure out how to make it do so.

If anyone knows how to change this it would be much appreciated, I've spent a long time trying to figure it out but to no avail.

Thanks. :)
Click to expand...


There is a trick you can use, there is a Speed board on the DLS by pguy, that was designed for just this situation, While it dosn't change the phsyics it will make the train go up the grade in AI mode at a realistic speed, You use it in conjuction with a Driver Command called Set Speed Profile. The speed board has 10 entries for 10 different speeds, and you enter the speeds for the weight of the train from 1,000 tons say 50mph through to 12mph for 10,000 tons, you then set the speed profile of the train via the Driver Command to match the weight of the train and the power you have on the front and it will climb the grade at the speed set by the speed profile command, As I said it dosn't change the pysics but it does make the train climb and realistic speed. I use it on all my grades works a treat.

NS37 is right if AI had completely realistic physicis the game would really bog down if you had lots of trains so this is a good work around.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Lots
 
Last edited:
Lots,
12 mph for 10,000 tons for eg . Is this the speed from bottom to top or the lowest speed the consist will drop to going up the hill.
 
fran1 said:
Lots,
12 mph for 10,000 tons for eg . Is this the speed from bottom to top or the lowest speed the consist will drop to going up the hill.
Click to expand...

Hi Fran

It acts like a normal speed board for the speed set is the maximum speed the train will go. Hope I havn't misunderstood you.

If you have played around physics in the engine file for dcc mode it will either accelerate or decelerate on a grade there is no inbetween it is one or the other. So a train with accel set to low will just stall on a grade, set to high and it will just accelerate to the speed board speed very urealistic, so a 15,000ton grain train will do 80mph up a 2.2% grade like it wasn't there where its real speed will down around the 12 to 15mph depending on how much power its got.

So for Trainz the the speedboard has to hold it at a realistic speed, but as trains are all different weights one speed board will not do the job, thats why pguy made this one for me.

Its not just based on weight but also the power you have on the train a 4,000ton train can struggle with just 2 locos on it on a 2% grade, at much the same speed as a heavy grain train of say 15,000tons with nine loco's on it like BNSF run over Tehachpi on grain trains they run over there.

I have a big grade on one of my routes where a train of mt's will go up the grade in 2 hrs, and a heavy train takes 5 hrs. Also on the grade it varies from 1% to 2.2% so for each variation a put a new speed board with the different speeds for each profile so the trains travel a little faster on the 1% or 1.5% as apposed to the 2.2% portion. Alkrugs website has a great calculator for working out trains speeds on grades and curves with given amounts of power to help you get the right numbers. It takes a bit to setup but well worth the effort in my opiniion

Another little trick I use in this stituation that this speedboard allows you to do, Is the script file on my loco will turn on a full power sound on command so when starting the grade the full power sound comes on also extra smoke, so the train can be doing 12mph on full noise on the grade, pure railfanning (foamer) heaven IMO. I do similar for the down grade (heavier trains go slower down hill) turn the sound of the Dynamic brake on I just love that sound, whoops I'm rambling sorry.

Another tip if you use pguys HUD it will display the Speed Profile set in that.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Lots
 
Another possibility is to use the "Set DCC Throttle" driver order, to make AI trains travel slower.

The advantage of an order-based approach is that it does not require laying additional speedboards, and you can leave prototypical speed limits for the human player.

The disadvantage is that you need a lot of tests to fine-tune the setting of the order for a given train...
 
"the grade the full power sound comes on also extra smoke, so the train can be doing 12mph on full noise on the grade, pure railfanning (foamer) heaven IMO."

I thought I was on my own with that, 7-11000 ton consists with 2 or 3 on the head screaming away and up to 4 bankers at the rear howling away, I'm sat there with a demented grin with my headphones on loving it.
(WM & B+O mega route) 17 mile and cranberry/rowlesburg hills, 2-3% grades ( full power all the way or you don't get up, simples).
 
Wow, obviously I'm not the only one who found this problem irritating. Thanks for all the suggestions guys, some really good ideas.

Another little trick I use in this stituation that this speedboard allows you to do, Is the script file on my loco will turn on a full power sound on command so when starting the grade the full power sound comes on also extra smoke, so the train can be doing 12mph on full noise on the grade, pure railfanning (foamer) heaven IMO.
Click to expand...

That sounds awesome, where did you get the script from? I'd love to use it on some of the steeper routes! That speed board idea sounds like a good solution too, I'll have to check it out.

As far as the AI using Cab mode is concerned, I not sure it would be impossible. I don't know much about coding or the trainz engine but I wouldn't have thought it would be too taxing on the game. The physics would maybe be a problem, but even then you can run a heap of Engines in Cab mode in one session switching between them without any noticeable FPS dips. Maybe that's just my computer, but it's not exactly a gaming beast or anything.
 
Hi

There is a driver command built in to TS12 called "Set Max Speed To" which allows you to vary the speed of a train for different sections of the route. I make extensive use of it to run AI trains to the actual timetables on such routes as the ECML and S&C.

A few years back I spent a some weeks playing about with the engine spec files for various UK steam locos to try and vary the AI performances for locos of different power classifications. I found it possible to do this but the differences occurred only with acceleration and braking i.e. the locos accelerated or braked faster or slower but it didn't seem to have any effect once the train had reached full speed. On the S&C route, a class 5 loco would take two or three minutes longer to run from Skipton to Carlisle than a class 7 loco with the same loading as a result of slower acceleration or braking for speed restrictions and station stops.

The physics do have some effect as I can't get an AI train to start from King's Cross platform 14 on the ECML route with a built in class 31 diesel and 5 coaches but reducing the number of coaches to 3 will allow it to pull away.

Regards

Brian
 
fran1 said:
I have the command, could you please explain how to use it, thank you.
Click to expand...

This command can not switch the direction of junction. It moves the train to a predetermined route to the marker. I brought her as an example of the physics for the bot
 
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