Does this news article include the buyers of Trainz TS12 Anniversary Edition?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rail-system-rich-mans-toy-172605802.html
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rail-system-rich-mans-toy-172605802.html
A Rich Mans Toy?
- Thread starter robd
- Start date
I should coco. I have to travel from Cirencester to Milford Haven at the end of the week (a distance of about 170 miles).
It's cheaper for me to drive my gas guzzling 19mpg Subaru WRX there and back, rather than get a return ticket by train
Still, it's going to be bags more fun in the motor
It's cheaper for me to drive my gas guzzling 19mpg Subaru WRX there and back, rather than get a return ticket by train
Still, it's going to be bags more fun in the motor
I suspect the Secretary of State for Transport is going to regret making this rather flippant comment. I can certainly imagine a whole lot of (likely Tory voting) commuters in the South East of England seething at these remarks bearing in mind they're paying some of the highest fares in the world.
Why are rail fares in the UK so much higher than in the rest of Europe (or Japan, SE Asia etc. for that matter)?
Of course its a 'rich man's toy', everyone else has been priced off! :hehe:
Paul
Why are rail fares in the UK so much higher than in the rest of Europe (or Japan, SE Asia etc. for that matter)?
Of course its a 'rich man's toy', everyone else has been priced off! :hehe:
Paul
Simply because everything in the UK is priced higher than the places you mention.
Soon the whole country will be a playground only for the rich and famous *spit*
Glad I'll be long dead before that happens though:hehe:
I can understand the problem about high trains fares down south in England but I think that Paulsw2 and tension59 are being a little partisan - especially tension69 making political points. The previous government slumped with low support therefor not wanted and how do you balance the basic fact that more people are travelling by railway in Great Britain than at any time for half a century? Based on the last comments that would mean a heck of a lot of rich people! Where I live my greater city area hasthe largest suburban system outside London and yet well used. What makes this interesting is the city area has a history of deprivation yet two lines were re-opened after decades of closure.
To be fair, the last UK election wasn't a ringing endoresement of any political party. The fact that after so many years of Labour government, and a personally unpopular prime-minister, the Tories could only manage a coalition government says something about their support, even with a personable young leader. It certainly makes it all the more depressing to see their scorched-earth policies being implemeted as if they'd won a landslide.
Anyway, as far as the railways are concerned, neither party has covered themselves in glory. Ultimately, everyone in the UK (taxpayers and passengers) are paying twice as much as they used to for a service that varies from a bit worse to a fair bit better. Other countries have managed to give much better value for money in the public sector.
Paul
Thank you for the translation, Clam1952. What this forum needs is an English-American translator. :hehe:
This thread is redolent of our - USA's - current HSR debate. BTW, be sure to read the posts to that article. Sounds like class warfare is the true international language.
Bernie
This thread is redolent of our - USA's - current HSR debate. BTW, be sure to read the posts to that article. Sounds like class warfare is the true international language.
Bernie
I take your point Paul that other countries in Europe do better with their public sector railways but even here the public sector wasn't that hot. BR was a long litany. No government of whatever shade has as you say done a lot of favours. Labour however did show a massive fall in support resulting in the Coalition. Perhaps we in the Scottish part of the Kingdom have done relatively better in a sense. At least we have had lines re-opened instead of our English cousins with pipedreams!
True, but BR managed to run a half-decent service for much less taxpayer support than almost any other railway in Europe. Intercity and freight ran at a profit (even though they were charged the majority of the network costs), and even Network Southeast managed to approach break-even in the years of the 'Lawson boom' of the mid eighties. At privatisation, only ONE franchise was expected to pay a premium from the beginning (Gatwick Express), the others at least all started with subsidies, so as to allow them to pay Railtrack and the ROSCos rates that would allow them to make a profit.
A combination of extraction of profits from the industry, the vast costs of running an industry with thousands of contractual relationships (i.e. lawyers' fees), and the lack of systemic inefficiencies for private companies to eliminate, meant that the privatised railway simply costs more to run.
Paul
All very good points. One thing that is often overlooked is that any public transportation system that is not truly integrated is doomed to failure. By that I mean that unless John Q Public can easily switch from one mode of transportation to the next on his way to the final distination, the lure of the private automobile will be very hard to resist.
Local bus and trams that bring you to the train station. Local trains that meet express trains with simple cross platform transfers and minimal waiting time during the transfer. The reverse at the destination with simple and easy transfers to local transport, bus. metro, tram or even public bicycle which in the inner core can and is often faster.
It will take a lot of planning and infrastructure changes to bring about the complete vision but the alternative is, I think, even worst traffic chaos than we see now in many if not most major metropolitan areas.
The other thing that this would require is the political will. Many special interest groups would have to cede some of their privileges and that will not be easy.
Of course another solution is to convince a lot of people to not live and work in big cities.
Local bus and trams that bring you to the train station. Local trains that meet express trains with simple cross platform transfers and minimal waiting time during the transfer. The reverse at the destination with simple and easy transfers to local transport, bus. metro, tram or even public bicycle which in the inner core can and is often faster.
It will take a lot of planning and infrastructure changes to bring about the complete vision but the alternative is, I think, even worst traffic chaos than we see now in many if not most major metropolitan areas.
The other thing that this would require is the political will. Many special interest groups would have to cede some of their privileges and that will not be easy.
Of course another solution is to convince a lot of people to not live and work in big cities.
Hi Everybody.
I do not believe that the British railways are a rich man's toy, they are a business persons productivity link. As someone who travels extensively around the country I use railways whenever I can as it can act as a mobile office. If you go to a meeting in London or any other major city in the UK you can use the time travelling to phone people, compile reports or reference the Internet for information you require that day.
As I have stated on other threads if you travel during peak periods on the intercity services the vast majority of people on the train will be working in the above manner. That means that despite the high fares when traveling during peak periods, businesses view this as productive time. However, with car travel it is completely lost time as obviously while driving you cannot carry out any other activity. Therefore as far as businesses is concerned rail travel can prove far more cost-effective than any other option.
With regard to using the railways for leisure, well if you book well in advance for what you are planning you can still travel from Bristol Temple Mead's to London for around £20 I believe.
It has already been stated in this thread passenger numbers in the UK are rising faster than anyone could have dreamed of or planned for only a few years ago. That I believe demonstrates the railways are not just a rich man's toy but have become once again an integral part of the transportation system in the UK for business and recreation being used by all sections of society.
Bill
I do not believe that the British railways are a rich man's toy, they are a business persons productivity link. As someone who travels extensively around the country I use railways whenever I can as it can act as a mobile office. If you go to a meeting in London or any other major city in the UK you can use the time travelling to phone people, compile reports or reference the Internet for information you require that day.
As I have stated on other threads if you travel during peak periods on the intercity services the vast majority of people on the train will be working in the above manner. That means that despite the high fares when traveling during peak periods, businesses view this as productive time. However, with car travel it is completely lost time as obviously while driving you cannot carry out any other activity. Therefore as far as businesses is concerned rail travel can prove far more cost-effective than any other option.
With regard to using the railways for leisure, well if you book well in advance for what you are planning you can still travel from Bristol Temple Mead's to London for around £20 I believe.
It has already been stated in this thread passenger numbers in the UK are rising faster than anyone could have dreamed of or planned for only a few years ago. That I believe demonstrates the railways are not just a rich man's toy but have become once again an integral part of the transportation system in the UK for business and recreation being used by all sections of society.
Bill
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And of course the number of passengers has increased from the State days of British Rail from 1948 till recent years when they went back to private (where they started!). Also if we were to follow the thinking of a rich man's toy the vast numbers on the railways would mean an awful lot more rich people than we realised!