A little help with the surveyor

[VonBauer]

I recently got TRS22 and wanted to create my own route, but the surveyor is so complicated it's making my head hurt. I don't know how to add/update ground, rotate the locomotives and attach locomotives to one another. I tried attaching two freight locos but it just passed through the other one in a transparent manner. I'm new to this whole thing, so everything is alien to me. Can anyone explain how to use the surveyor properly?

 

[pware]

two freight locos but it just passed through the other one in a transparent manner

A loco or rolling stock object passing straight through another is a sign that they are not attached to the same track. Do you have two different track segments installed on top of each other or very close to each other?

You did not state which version of TRS22 you have - TRS22PE which has both Surveyor 2.0 and Surveyor Classic or TRS22 (standard) that has just Surveyor Classic

Surveyor 2.0 is a steep learning curve, Surveyor Classic is easier to use but very limited (in my opinion) compared to Surveyor 2.0.

As you are new to Trainz may I suggest a starting point for both Surveyor 2.0 and Surveyor Classic - the Trainz Wiki Page at Route_and_Session_Basics.

 

[VonBauer]

A loco or rolling stock object passing straight through another is a sign that they are not attached to the same track. Do you have two different track segments installed on top of each other or very close to each other?

You did not state which version of TRS22 you have - TRS22PE which has both Surveyor 2.0 and Surveyor Classic or TRS22 (standard) that has just Surveyor Classic

Surveyor 2.0 is a steep learning curve, Surveyor Classic is easier to use but very limited (in my opinion) compared to Surveyor Classic.

As you are new to Trainz may I suggest a starting point for both Surveyor 2.0 and Surveyor Classic - the Trainz Wiki Page at Route_and_Session_Basics.

I don't know for the tracks, but my TRS22 is PE, the new surveyor is quite difficult to understand.

 

[Frank_Dean]

As the initiator of the thread has said, surveyor 2.0 is quite difficult and this is said by one who started with Trainz 2004 and from the beginning and who got me hooked by the simplicity of the old surveyor.
The manuals to learn surveyor 2.0 apart from being only in the imperial language, are quite complex, simpler versions are needed or for dummies and that first explains what was done in surveyor 1.0 and now how to do it in surveyor 2.0. And leave for later, or a second part of the manuals, the new features or new tools of surveyor 2.0
Sorry if my opinion bothers the creators of the surveyor 2.0 manuals, but they are very complex and exhaustive.
I miss when you used to buy the physical version of the game in which a manual of the game was included in the local language of the country where it was sold.

 

[pware]

I miss when you used to buy the physical version of the game in which a manual of the game was included in the local language of the country where it was sold.

The supply of physical (printed) manuals was killed off by printing costs and the distribution of software through the internet. I doubt that they will ever return.

Written manuals in digital format (e.g. PDF, Web Pages, Wiki Media, etc) still needs human writers (if you ignore AI) and that is both time consuming and expensive (if done by professional writers). Add to that the need for constant updates as new features are added, bugs are fixed, new bugs appear, etc, in each new release or SP update of Trainz then the task is even more complicated and time consuming. The How to Use Surveyor 2.0 Tools Wiki Page, for example, was started well over 2 years ago, months before it appeared on the Wiki, and is still being regularly updated.

On the question of the lack of language options, online translation services are becoming better but probably still far from perfect.

If the style or format of the Surveyor 2.0 manuals are too "complex and exhaustive" and need "dummies versions" then anyone can contribute by creating and adding their own pages. That is the advantage of the Trainz Wiki!

No, I am not offended by your opinion of the manuals. All opinions are welcome.

Peter

 

[pware]

the new surveyor is quite difficult to understand

Yes, it took me about a year to make the change from Surveyor Classic to Surveyor 2.0 after 20+ years of using Surveyor Classic.

Perhaps you should start a brand new route by using Surveyor Classic (select Edit in Surveyor Classic from the Surveyor Tools menu - the third icon at the top of the screen). Select the Track icon (4th icon on the right of the screen) then select and and lay some track in a loop (it does not matter which track). Add a locomotive and some wagons (bottom icon on the right) to get the "feel" of how the program works.

 

[autodctr]

I still use Surveyor 1 for almost everything....sooo much easier. Sur 2 I use mostly for moving large amounts of earth and for covering large amounts of earth with grass, dist, etc. It is especially nice for just putting a "hint" of dirt or grass somewhere....no sharp edges.

 

[pware]

I still use Surveyor 1 for almost everything....sooo much easier.

It could have been a simple move for N3V to drop the option to continue using Surveyor Classic after Surveyor 2.0 appeared - as some other software developers had done when a "radical" new interface or similar was introduced. But to their credit they did not - but, as I am sure someone will point out, that could still happen in the future. Does anyone here miss using MS-DOS or Adobe Fireworks? When MS introduced the Ribbon into their Office products, I was "cussin' and cursin'" for quite a while until it finally grew on me.

As I posted above it took me about a year to make the switch from Classic to S2.0 - it is a steep and long learning curve if you cut your Trainz "rail ties" using Classic. I am the opposite of @autodctr in that I now use S2.0 for almost everything and very rarely go back into Classic - but each to their own way of doing things.

I would be interested in hearing how other "Trainz newbies", whose first experience of Trainz is using Surveyor 2.0, are finding the experience.

 

[JCitron]

"I would be interested in hearing how other "Trainz newbies", whose first experience of Trainz is using Surveyor 2.0, are finding the experience."

Perhaps it's something like the old saying:

Fools walk where angels fear to tread.

 

[martinvk]

Being one of the "fools" that made the jump to S2.0 early, I now find it much easier to use and more able to do the common tasks in Surveyor. Says one who had been using the Classic version since the early days of Trainz.

 

[pware]

Fools walk where angels fear to tread.

To many people change is frustrating, it can even appear dangerous, and is to be avoided at all costs. Even when that change brings major improvements.

Trainz back in 2002, using what is now called "Classic", was a learning curve - as is all new software. The later addition of sessions, interactive industries and layers were all new frustrating changes. Even today, all those years later, some users still struggle with layers or even avoid them completely. A few will not add sessions to their routes.

The fact that users can still create workable routes without using layers, industries, sessions (and Surveyor 2.0) speaks volumes for the flexibility of the Trainz product.

 

[martinvk]

The fact that users can still create workable routes without using layers, industries, sessions (and Surveyor 2.0) speaks volumes for the flexibility of the Trainz product.

Or that Trainzers are very clever and ingenious people.

 

[UncleBuck]

I haven't used anything but S2 for ages now.
I use the layers extensively when modifying a route as I find it easier to just hide things I am not working on.
I tend to place bare industries and build the scenery around it, so sometimes it involves placing something directly over the industry track.
Without layers, being able to change the industry configuration was a nightmare due to always selecting the scenery rather than the actual industry.
At a minimum I always have four layers (route, scenery, trees and session), but when converting an old route it is not uncommon for me to use many more before I eventually narrow it back down to the basic four.
When I first started using S2, I had a lot trouble making turnouts or yards look correct, so I used to switch back to the classic surveyor to do them.
Now after persisting, I can very easily (easier than classic) quickly whip these up in seconds.

My suggestion to anyone who is afraid of S2 is to stick with it as you will eventually come to grips with it and rarely need to go back to classic.
It can take a while, but it is worth it in the end (this coming from a 64 yo who loves tinkering)

 

[pware]

My suggestion to anyone who is afraid of S2 is to stick with it as you will eventually come to grips with it and rarely need to go back to classic.

Well stated @UncleBuck. On the matter of layers, my current project has about 30 of them - you can never have enough!!!