A few thingymajigs I noticted

bassist118

Suffering for his art.
I'm using 04 and just noticed 1 or 2 dodgy goings on with the AI and was wondering if there are any ways around them.

1: When in cab view, you go past a speed sign the speed limit changes instantly, but when looking outside the loco the speed limit only changes after the last peice of rollingstock in the consist goes past.

2: How do the LMS distant semaphores work, I presumed they told you in advance if the next signal will be, I may be worng. But the trains stop at them for a second even if the next signal is clear.

3: Why when the train is driving at courtion every speed limit is halved except 30 which is taken at full pace?

Hope someone can clear these up for me as I'm a little confused :confused::confused:

Cheers guys and gals :D

Andy
 
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Well, the AI isn't perfect of course. :D

1) Are you sure it's the views that make the difference? I do know that, when a sign says you can throttle up, you have to wait until the last carriage passes the speed sign; whereas when a sign says you need to lower your speed, you have to actually do so before passing the sign. :)

2) No clue, I'm no Brit. :confused:

3) No clue either, prob to do with AI not being perfect. :hehe:
 
1) Tiger has it :)

2) No clue either :)

3) Caution sigs should be passed at half speed, except at speeds under 30.

Apart fron 2) about which I have no clue your AI appears to be working perfectly!
 
Cheers for clearing those up for me, forever learning but I spose thats one of the games many good points, it taxes the brain but dosn't pull it to shreads. Still no luck playing with the distant signals even after looking up the real life subject (according to wiki I was right - in the process of getting a second opinion tho because of their impecable :confused: reputation.

Anyone who can help me stop the trains stipping at distant signals will be very much welcomed and I can quite understand those from across the pond not being able to help me on this as I havn't had much experiance with US signal operation either but may need help as I do plan to do a US route but the 4 I have on the go will take me a while. :'(

Thanx again guys

:Y:

Andy
 
I'm using 04 . . .

1: When in cab view, you go past a speed sign the speed limit changes instantly, but when looking outside the loco the speed limit only changes after the last peice of rollingstock in the consist goes past.
Answer is I believe it's one of the manuals/instructions for Trainz. And yes I do know the answer.

2: How do the LMS distant semaphores work, I presumed they told you in advance if the next signal will be
(See highlighted text)
A. Who are they? and
B. if the next signal will be what?
More explanation is needed.

His question Number 3: I believe is also in the manuals.
 
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G'day basssist118,

The sole purpose of the Distant Signal (no matter which railway system made use of them - or still does) was to give the driver an advance indication of the aspect of the next Home Signal. However, due to the nature of interlocking (whereby the Distant Signal is prevented from being placed to proceed (green) until ALL signals in advance were also at proceed), it soon became obvious that if the Distant Signal was at proceed, then drivers knew that they had a clear 'run' through that location, all the way through to the Home Signal at the next signalled location. If the signal displayed a caution aspect (usually yellow), then it only indicated that the next Home signal MIGHT be at stop (red). It certainly meant that at least one of the following Home/Starting Signals was at stop at the point when the train passes the signal. There is no need for a train to be stopped at a Distant Signal showing caution but "the driver must needs have sufficient control of the train to be able to stop at the next fixed signal". None of the Two Position Semaphore Signals available in Trainz (which include the Distant Signals) work in the correct prototype manner. A little consultation with the right people (rather than trackside observation) would have been able to correct this issue at the appropriate time but it seems that WE now have to live with this gross 'error' on the part of the programmers as it cannot be overcome, even with scripting...

Jerker {:(}
 
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Anyone who can help me stop the trains stipping at distant signals will be very much welcomed and I can quite understand those from across the pond not being able to help me on this as I havn't had much experiance with US signal operation either but may need help as I do plan to do a US route but the 4 I have on the go will take me a while. :'(

Hi Andy
In Trainz (pre TC3/TS2009), distant signals still acted as 'regular' signals. The model would give you a 'warning' indication (visible) via some settings, but it may have actually been showing a 'stop' indication to the game. Trainz Classics 3 introduced a setting in the config.txt file where you can tell Trainz that a signal is a home or distant signal. Home signal being able to give 'red' and 'green' indications, but not a caution, and a distance being able to give 'yellow' and 'green' indications but not a 'red'.
 
Answer is I believe it's one of the manuals/instructions for Trainz. And yes I do know the answer.

(See highlighted text)
A. Who are they? and
B. if the next signal will be what?
More explanation is needed.

His question Number 3: I believe is also in the manuals.

I would love to while away the hours reading those novels er manuals but not all of us have the time, I have 2 kids that take up around 90% of my time and the other 10% is split between bass and route building it seems there are a few of these nitpics strewn across my threads where as there are other more ovious threads out there without just an observation you'll understand. Common sence is somthing I have in heaps but time I'm sorry I don't have in huge supply.

Andy
 
I'm not in a position to be able to discuss the operation of two aspect semaphore signals in the Trainz environment, as I have only Ultimate Trainz Collection. However, in terms of British real-life signalling (I hate the word 'prototypical'):

A signalbox controls the area around it via points and signals. The area between the first signal it controls and the last signal it controls on that line is defined as the station limits for the box (despite the fact that boxes would frequently be nowhere near a station!).

The section between two adjacent signalboxes, but outside of their respective station limits is known as the block section. There are/were predominantly two types of block section: Absolute block and permissive block. In an absolute block section, only one train is ever permitted to occupy the line. In a permissive block section, multiple trains heading in the same direction are allowed to enter, though each subsequent train must be stopped and cautioned. All British passenger lines have been for the best part of 125 years controlled by the absolute block method.

======[==Box A==]======Block section A-B======[==Box B==]======


Fig.1: Section of line showing two signalboxes, with their station limits in blue and the block sections around them in red.

In British semaphore signalling, there are two distinct types of signal: A distant signal and a stop signal. Many people call the stop signal a home signal, however a home signal is more correctly just a type of stop signal.

It was around the 1890s when the rules governing block working became 'set in stone', and for passenger lines it is best expressed as followed: "No passenger train may be permitted to enter a block section until there is at least 440 yards (a quarter of a mile) of clear line beyond the next stop signal". This is to guarantee a safe overlap distance due to driver or mechanical error during working (though in special circumstances, such working can be dispensed with).

__/................. __|........ __|
TRAIN1>>========================================TRAIN2>>==
.................................<--440 yards-->


Fig.2 - Allowable under British passenger working.


__/................. __|........ __|
TRAIN1>>============================TRAIN2>>==============
.................................<--440 yards-->

Fig.3 - Not allowed under British passenger working.


So, onto types signal within a box's station limits...

A typical small signalbox will have only three main signals (though any number of additional shunt or subsidiary signals may be included):

- Distant signal
- Home signal
- Starter signal

The purpose of the home signal is to protect the rear of a train within the station limits, as well as any point-work controlled by the signal box.

The purpose of the starter signal is to allow entry into the next block section. It is often also called the 'section signal'.

The distant signal is a little more complex. It should be placed at full-braking distance from the home signal, allowing the driver to safely stop a train at the home signal if needs be. A train cannot be stopped at a distant signal.

If the distant signal is showing a clear aspect, it means that both the home signal and the starter signal are 'off' (clear / green), and that it is safe to proceed through the station without stopping (barring a timetabled stop or a sudden emergency).

However, if the distant signal is showing a caution aspect, it means that the home signal is probably (and should be) at danger. This is usually because the next block section is occupied. If this is the case, the home signal may not be cleared until the train's speed has been brought under control, ready for the train to wait at the starter signal.

The precise number of stop signals within a box's station limits are governed by circumstance. A stop signal must always immediately protect any point-work beyond it, as well as the rear of a train waiting at a platform. This introduces some easy to understand extra naming for signals: Outer home; and advanced starter (and sometimes maybe outer outer home, or advanced advanced starter, etc., as required).

It can also be advantageous to have two distant signals for a signalbox - an 'outer distant' and an 'inner distant'.

Getting even more complex, sometimes the inner distant for a box may be placed on the same post as the home signal. In this case it is known as an 'accelerating distant'. In this situation, if the block section ahead is occupied, it is not necessary to keep the home signal at danger until the train has almost stopped, as the 'accelerating distant' gives warning that the 'starter' is still at danger.

It gets even more complicated when block sections are short, and so the distant for Box B is on the same post as Box A's starter, or in extreme cases, on Box A's home (with an additional Box B inner distant on Box A's starter) - this can put to use some rather involved mechanics on the ground to prevent Box B's distant signals from showing green when Box A's stop signals are at danger!

But amongst all this is the basic rule: The outermost distant for a signalbox cannot show green unless ALL the stop signals the box controls are showing green too.

Ronnie
 
Hi bassist118,

The last sentence in ronstar's post gives a clue to what might be the problem.

Try this: When your train is approaching a distant signal showing yellow stop the train just before the signal. Next press 'M' on the keyboard to go to map view, in map view you will see the signal colour that the AI driver can see. Although in driver you can only see either green or yellow the AI can see red if the next signal is red. If the distant is showing red in map view check past the next signal to see if there is a set of points facing the wrong way, if so change these points to clear the way you want the train to go in then go back to your train, still in map view, and see if the distant signal has changed to green. If it has changed to green you have found the problem. Set the points you changed to default the correct way in surveyor and things should run smoothly in driver.

Cheers,
Bill69
 
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