GossenGarrat
New member
I am working on the East Broad Top route but I need a 3ft/ standard dual gauge track for the interchange at Mt. Union. does anyone know of a good dual gauge track?
3ft/std dual gauge track?
- Thread starter GossenGarrat
- Start date
GossenGarrat
New member
Thank you very much klinger, that's just what I was looking for. do you know if he has made any points or stub switch levers for his 3 rail dual gauge?
GossenGarrat
New member
Will do. The EBT Mt. Union Yard is interesting because of it's combination of standard, ng, and dual sidings. Now if I could find a Trainz model of the old timber transfer crane and the coal cleaning plant
cascaderailroad
New member
Only a small portion of the EBT was dual gauge, and dual gauge was only near the PRR interchange and the present industrial park location, where they swapped out NG/SG bogies.
You can lay "rail only" and slide it over top of ballast track, matching spline point heights, of the SG/NG track where needed.
The EBT dual gauge track had only 3 rails, not 4.
You can lay "rail only" and slide it over top of ballast track, matching spline point heights, of the SG/NG track where needed.
The EBT dual gauge track had only 3 rails, not 4.
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GossenGarrat
New member
I know guys, I've done my research and Im using a basemap for the mt. union yards. Now I need trainz versions of the Timber Transfer, the Coal cleaning plant, and the NARCo plant.
There used to be a set of instructions for MAN6 components but it got deleted when the Forums crashed. Perhaps someone has a copy they could post a link too.
Also - Linda Irene Tingvik (shortline2) made a 4-rail rail only track that matches MAN6 components for me to be used on a dual gauge turntable (makes alignment a snap).
Ben
Also - Linda Irene Tingvik (shortline2) made a 4-rail rail only track that matches MAN6 components for me to be used on a dual gauge turntable (makes alignment a snap).
Ben
Actually there was/is quite a bit of dual gauge track in Mt Union as Goosen says. I don't know of any available models of the crane or Chance process coal cleaning plant or any of the brick refactories. I have some drawings of the coal plant that I'm going to use but that won't happen til next year at my current rate of progress. EBT served 3 brick factories in the Mt Union area at various times in the EBT's history. They all had some dual gauge track.
All the track mentioned above is old stuff. I'd suggest making your own track using the new spline formats. The EBT and old PRR tracks make for a pretty big yard by ng standards. I converted my old MR track to the new stitched track but it's only a 2 lod version same as the old MR was.
Following is a Cadrail dwg I made of the track in MT Union. Blue is sg track, orange is ng and the black and red is the dg. IIRC the dg added up to about 8 miles of track total. The common rail was always on the south side - EBT never switched like some ng did which eliminates some awkward transitions.
Zoom in at part of the yard
The track I made has separate components for dg. The mesh for the sg component has the 3 rails and an invisible spline carries the ng. That way making turnouts was easy. The hard part is just laying the track. In TS12 bridge type track that can be used for dual gauge is broken at current time. The patch if they release it may fix that. I think Elvenor's track is based on bridge track. I have made some like that and it's easy to lay but turnouts are a problem and you have to go to 2 separate components to construct them.
Here's a pic of a turnout used with kind bridge type dg track. The bridge track is replaced with separate track components iwo of the junction.
The following pics show parts of the yard in Surveyor. Yellow splines are ng component on the dg track.
Good luck on the MT Union yard. I'd volunteer my track but I think you can do a lot better. While I converted it to stitched track it is pretty poor quality and I'll be making new versions after I retire - which should be soon now.
Bob Pearson
PS Now that I think about it Zec Murphy aka s301 has a tool to space dg track on the dls. I think he worked with 42in gage but may have a 3ft version. (edit: it's broad gauge and sg so no good for EBT but maybe it can be modified I haven't tired it <kuid:103475:38157>). It's broken in TS12 but should work in TS9 - a new feature I guess where spline attachment points closer than 1 m apart don't work anymore on scenery/buildables and the like but that's progress. You might look into it though. 3rd rail for the ng is just a rail and it's laid over the sg track. You may be able to make up something similar although kind bridge track can be used as track gauge for laying dg with separate components - just slow going.
PPS Someone made a set of 3' ng stub turnouts, Pencil42 maybe, I'll have to check (edit: no his are sg but I thought someone made 3ft versions based on his but can't find anything). Elvenor did make some 3' ng stub turnouts but I don't know if they still work. Trouble with mixing and matching track and turnouts is the ballast never matches. Many of EBT turnouts in the yards were left as stub and they had a few 3 ways. I think all the mainline turnouts were replaced with point type in the early 1900's. Elvenor made some wigwag (harp frame) type levers based on D&RG and DSP&P. The EBT used a slightly different version of them but I don't think they were used in the Mt Union yard at least in later years - I don't recall any pics of them. Rockhill Furnace yard and shops retained a few though - also in Robertsdale area. I prefer his low height switchstands but they don't fit too well with the EBT track spacing in the yards. They don't match up well with the various types the EBT used over the years either.
All the track mentioned above is old stuff. I'd suggest making your own track using the new spline formats. The EBT and old PRR tracks make for a pretty big yard by ng standards. I converted my old MR track to the new stitched track but it's only a 2 lod version same as the old MR was.
Following is a Cadrail dwg I made of the track in MT Union. Blue is sg track, orange is ng and the black and red is the dg. IIRC the dg added up to about 8 miles of track total. The common rail was always on the south side - EBT never switched like some ng did which eliminates some awkward transitions.
Zoom in at part of the yard
The track I made has separate components for dg. The mesh for the sg component has the 3 rails and an invisible spline carries the ng. That way making turnouts was easy. The hard part is just laying the track. In TS12 bridge type track that can be used for dual gauge is broken at current time. The patch if they release it may fix that. I think Elvenor's track is based on bridge track. I have made some like that and it's easy to lay but turnouts are a problem and you have to go to 2 separate components to construct them.
Here's a pic of a turnout used with kind bridge type dg track. The bridge track is replaced with separate track components iwo of the junction.
The following pics show parts of the yard in Surveyor. Yellow splines are ng component on the dg track.
Good luck on the MT Union yard. I'd volunteer my track but I think you can do a lot better. While I converted it to stitched track it is pretty poor quality and I'll be making new versions after I retire - which should be soon now.
Bob Pearson
PS Now that I think about it Zec Murphy aka s301 has a tool to space dg track on the dls. I think he worked with 42in gage but may have a 3ft version. (edit: it's broad gauge and sg so no good for EBT but maybe it can be modified I haven't tired it <kuid:103475:38157>). It's broken in TS12 but should work in TS9 - a new feature I guess where spline attachment points closer than 1 m apart don't work anymore on scenery/buildables and the like but that's progress. You might look into it though. 3rd rail for the ng is just a rail and it's laid over the sg track. You may be able to make up something similar although kind bridge track can be used as track gauge for laying dg with separate components - just slow going.
PPS Someone made a set of 3' ng stub turnouts, Pencil42 maybe, I'll have to check (edit: no his are sg but I thought someone made 3ft versions based on his but can't find anything). Elvenor did make some 3' ng stub turnouts but I don't know if they still work. Trouble with mixing and matching track and turnouts is the ballast never matches. Many of EBT turnouts in the yards were left as stub and they had a few 3 ways. I think all the mainline turnouts were replaced with point type in the early 1900's. Elvenor made some wigwag (harp frame) type levers based on D&RG and DSP&P. The EBT used a slightly different version of them but I don't think they were used in the Mt Union yard at least in later years - I don't recall any pics of them. Rockhill Furnace yard and shops retained a few though - also in Robertsdale area. I prefer his low height switchstands but they don't fit too well with the EBT track spacing in the yards. They don't match up well with the various types the EBT used over the years either.
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GossenGarrat
New member
RPearson, I would make my own assets except I don't know how to. I have both GMax and Blender but have very little knowledge on how to used either to make Trainz assets. I need the various batten board structures along the line too, so some of the passenger shelters and section houses. For the time being, I'm just using the MAN6 track for the track, ng, sg, and dg. For whatever reason, I can't view your pictures, it just says "404- not found". I just finished laying the yard yesterday, but I do need to find or learn to make every structure from the station to the engine house and ash pit to the refract diesel the transfer and so on down the track, including everything in Rockhill. I think somebody else has done the EBT and posted about it on here, but I can't find the thread or posts. I tried the sg track with bridge track on top, but I couldn't get the ballast to match, plus I can't even find a ng track with the EBT's loco ash ballast. So it looks like I am going to have a lot to do on this route on just the EBT, not to mention finding kuids for my PRR steamers. And reskinning a slope back tender switcher I found to match #3 sitting in the engine house right now. :udrool:
cascaderailroad
New member
There are lots and lots of buildings already on th DLS that represent somewhat of the degree of detail that was in that area. A building is just a common board and batten structure, and a train track is just a simple train track. If you must have each and every asset exactly to precise exquisit detail, exactly as it was on the prototype ... this will be a lengthly entailed project.
I suffer from obsessive compulsiveness ... and it truely takes the simple joy out of building a fairly accurate, simple example of a track, just to run trains on.
Shortline2 has pages of old buildings that look of the era.
I suffer from obsessive compulsiveness ... and it truely takes the simple joy out of building a fairly accurate, simple example of a track, just to run trains on.
Shortline2 has pages of old buildings that look of the era.
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There are a lot of structures unique to the EBT. But that's the way really with all railroads. While a lot of fill in stuff can be grabbed from anywhere a lot will need custom models. The coal process plant is one model that has to be made as it has to fit the unique track work in the Mt Union yard - and it was the primary business of the EBT. Gannister rock for the NARCO brick refactory was also important. The NARCO factory complex is another that should be made. The whole shop complex at Rockhill is so unique that it has to be made too.
I know a couple of people that have started working on EBT layouts but no finished ones. There are payware models of the Rockhill shop complex under a fictious rr name out there somewhere but I wouldn't go that route - there are detailed dwgs available of all the main strucutres because of its status as a national historic industrial landmark. There's a model of the Runk rd overpass on the dls and also a model of Orbisonia station though as it is for the tourist era. The sign is in the wrong place for pre 1956 times but can be repainted for the revenue years.
And where would we be without Whitepass and Bdaneal. I've reskinned Ben's No 17 into 16, 17 and 18 in pre 1956 colors. Randal's hoppers are also crucial to any EBT route and I've reskinned his passenger cars to EBT Nos 8 thru 11. Leeferr's generic sg 0-6-0 with 3 domes, slide valves, and slope backed tender is a pretty good match for EBT No 3. I've reskinned one for my own use recently. Which brings up an operational problem with the MT Union yard. EBT No 3 was std gauge but handled ng cars on the dual gauge track with an offset coupler arrangment. I don't know of any way to make this work with the 3 rail dg track mentioned above. The sg and ng are totally segregated and Trainz allows no interface. Something might be possible with custom scripting but I think it is a long shot. There is certainly enough sg car movement to keep No 3 busy around the coal plant and transfer tracks. But now all the ng work will have to be handled by the mikados which while possible is not prototypical for the EBT.
I've been gathering reference material for a number of years so I have a lot of drawings of various things. I have enough to make most all the important structures. I can make 3d models to some extent but texturing them is another story. Turning the dwgs into models will be a long and slow process. Besides my attempts at track making the only modeling I've done is the concrete bridge over Aughwick Creek. It shows up in some of the pics I've posted in other forums here.
So for me it is and will be a lengthy and slow process. I'm in no hurry. I've put off doing a lot of work other that terrain and track till I retire thinking I'll have the time and need something to keep me occupied.
Pic show up for me but I have an account there so no assurance anyone else can see them. There's a lot more html code in the link than I've used in the past so maybe that's a problem.
Bob Pearson
I know a couple of people that have started working on EBT layouts but no finished ones. There are payware models of the Rockhill shop complex under a fictious rr name out there somewhere but I wouldn't go that route - there are detailed dwgs available of all the main strucutres because of its status as a national historic industrial landmark. There's a model of the Runk rd overpass on the dls and also a model of Orbisonia station though as it is for the tourist era. The sign is in the wrong place for pre 1956 times but can be repainted for the revenue years.
And where would we be without Whitepass and Bdaneal. I've reskinned Ben's No 17 into 16, 17 and 18 in pre 1956 colors. Randal's hoppers are also crucial to any EBT route and I've reskinned his passenger cars to EBT Nos 8 thru 11. Leeferr's generic sg 0-6-0 with 3 domes, slide valves, and slope backed tender is a pretty good match for EBT No 3. I've reskinned one for my own use recently. Which brings up an operational problem with the MT Union yard. EBT No 3 was std gauge but handled ng cars on the dual gauge track with an offset coupler arrangment. I don't know of any way to make this work with the 3 rail dg track mentioned above. The sg and ng are totally segregated and Trainz allows no interface. Something might be possible with custom scripting but I think it is a long shot. There is certainly enough sg car movement to keep No 3 busy around the coal plant and transfer tracks. But now all the ng work will have to be handled by the mikados which while possible is not prototypical for the EBT.
I've been gathering reference material for a number of years so I have a lot of drawings of various things. I have enough to make most all the important structures. I can make 3d models to some extent but texturing them is another story. Turning the dwgs into models will be a long and slow process. Besides my attempts at track making the only modeling I've done is the concrete bridge over Aughwick Creek. It shows up in some of the pics I've posted in other forums here.
So for me it is and will be a lengthy and slow process. I'm in no hurry. I've put off doing a lot of work other that terrain and track till I retire thinking I'll have the time and need something to keep me occupied.
Pic show up for me but I have an account there so no assurance anyone else can see them. There's a lot more html code in the link than I've used in the past so maybe that's a problem.
Bob Pearson
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GossenGarrat
New member
I may find the time to learn GMax and Blender, but it may be a while till I have anything like Mt Union or Rockhill.
I just thought of an interesting solution to the problem of #3 moving the NG cars. Make one version Sg and make another that runs on the NG track but offset to look like it is on SG track. Granted this has it's shortcomings, like you can't go from SG to NG switching or vis versa with one loco.
I just thought of an interesting solution to the problem of #3 moving the NG cars. Make one version Sg and make another that runs on the NG track but offset to look like it is on SG track. Granted this has it's shortcomings, like you can't go from SG to NG switching or vis versa with one loco.
Yes that might work. From what I've read No 3 was never turned during it's life time in MT Union and it's still sitting there. Of course that makes sense with the coupler arrangement and consistent location of the common rail.
The wye in Mt Union was dg on only 2 legs for some reason lost to obscurity. The 3rd leg was ng so only the ng locos could use it. The only way to turn No 3 (and the older No 6) was to to go completely around the NARCO complex using the turnout to the creosote plant at the north end. The creosote plant was sg only. It supplied rr ties (sleepers) to the PRR and was serviced by it so I don't think the EBT used that track much if any.
The EBT carried some timber products but I don't think they ever provided any to the creosote plant and it would have required transfer to sg equipment anyway. If they did a lot of work with the plant it would have made more sense to just add the 3rd rail.
Of course the original reason for the timber transfer crane was to transfer timber products to the PRR for off route shipment. Back in the 1920s the EBT carried a lot of timber products. The McKelvey Bros had a logging operation south of Rockhill Furnace. They operated a 3'ng railroad and a sawmill near the old iron furnace. The McKelveys had an interchange with the EBT at Rockhill and the rr ran south into the Ft Littleton area. I still hope to include it at some point but there's a lot of other things on that same list. I have some sketches of various parts of the logging route that appeared in a series of 5 articles in the FEBT Timber Transfer back in 1991-1993 but I haven't got around to making a dwg of the complete route yet.
Bob Pearson
The wye in Mt Union was dg on only 2 legs for some reason lost to obscurity. The 3rd leg was ng so only the ng locos could use it. The only way to turn No 3 (and the older No 6) was to to go completely around the NARCO complex using the turnout to the creosote plant at the north end. The creosote plant was sg only. It supplied rr ties (sleepers) to the PRR and was serviced by it so I don't think the EBT used that track much if any.
The EBT carried some timber products but I don't think they ever provided any to the creosote plant and it would have required transfer to sg equipment anyway. If they did a lot of work with the plant it would have made more sense to just add the 3rd rail.
Of course the original reason for the timber transfer crane was to transfer timber products to the PRR for off route shipment. Back in the 1920s the EBT carried a lot of timber products. The McKelvey Bros had a logging operation south of Rockhill Furnace. They operated a 3'ng railroad and a sawmill near the old iron furnace. The McKelveys had an interchange with the EBT at Rockhill and the rr ran south into the Ft Littleton area. I still hope to include it at some point but there's a lot of other things on that same list. I have some sketches of various parts of the logging route that appeared in a series of 5 articles in the FEBT Timber Transfer back in 1991-1993 but I haven't got around to making a dwg of the complete route yet.
Bob Pearson
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GossenGarrat
New member
I guess I need to either find some one to make the special #3 or get good enough to do it myself. The Timber crane shouldn't be hard to do my self, but I don't know about the chance plant, the creosote plant, or the refractories there at Mt union.
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