borderreiver
Well-known member
Following an enquiry about the make-up of the UK's East Coast Joint Stock Expresses, I am posting a thread showing the allocations for Summer 1914 (June - Sept) derived from work published by Michael Harris and Ken Hoole.
This post will deal with the overall view of the Down trains. Further posts will show an overall view of the Up trains. with detailed allocations of both down and up trains following.
The E.C.J.S. Company ownership was shared between the G.N.R., N.E.R. and N.B.R., proportions related to mileage, which made the G.N.R. the "senior" partner. The E.C.J.S.C. supplied the carriages required to operate the express passenger services along the East Coast Main Line between London Kings Cross, Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Queen Street, Perth and Aberdeen.
More information received September 2019, edited and revised - Michael Harris Omitted the Saturday's Only version of the 8:45 p.m Down train in his 1995 book on GNR and ECJS Carriages Post-1905.
Down Trains
The summer of 1914 - On weekdays (Monday - friday) five daytime and four overnight express passenger trains between London and Edinburgh.
9:50 a.m. London - Edinburgh.
Eight carriages departing London. 257 T 14 Cwt.
This train was the relief for the 10:00 a.m.
This train ran to Edinburgh July - September.
During May London - Newcastle on Mondays and Fridays only.
During June london - Newcastle on weekdays (Mondays to Fridays).
10:00 a.m. London - Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth and Aberdeen.
Ten carriage set departing London. 303 T 17 Cwt
G.N.R. nickname "The Scotch Express" - known as "The Flying Scotsman" in the L.N.E.R. era.
A feature of the 10 a.m. was having the N.E.R. TPO coach at the head of the down train between York and Edinburgh (re-positioning for its next up duty).
10:35 a.m. London - Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Ten carriage set departing London. 295 T 14 Cwt
With G.N.R. corridor carriage portions from London - Cromer, (detached at Peterborough) and ( Saturdays Only) Grantham – Doncaster.
With Midland Railway portion (attached at York) Bristol – Newcastle (Non-vestibule carriages)
With N.E.R. portion from Newcastle - Alnmouth (non-vestibule carriages).
11:20 a.m. London - Edinburgh, North Berwick, Perth and Montrose.
Nine carriage set departing London. 287 T 8 Cwt
A through Corridor Brake Compo to N. Berwick detach at Drem to attach to the N.B.R. branch train.
With a N.E.R. through Brake Composite (attached at Darlington) from Keswick to Newcastle. Non-vestibule carriage.
2:20 p.m. London - Edinburgh. Monday to Friday.
Nine carriage set departing London. 274 T 13 Cwt
Unofficial G.N.R. nickname "The Afternoon Scotch Express".
One 6-w non-vestibule Brake Van ran outside the E.C.J.S. Corridor Bogie Brake as far as Newcastle.
The 6-w van detached and then on from Newcastle to Edinburgh with the 11:45 p.m. ex-London.
2:20 p.m. London - Edinburgh. Saturdays Only.
Eleven carriage set departing London. Weight 364 T 9 Cwt.
One Brake Third for Edinburgh at the head of the train.
One Corridor Composite for Edinburgh fourth carriage in the train.
Both the above addded to the weekday train consist.
One south-end brake, G.N.R. Corridor Brake Compo ran outside the E.C.J.S. Brake rather than the weekday's 6-w Brake Van.
The G.N.R. carriage running as far as Newcastle, returning Up from there with the Sat 11:29 p.m. for London.
7:55 p.m. London - Inverness and Fort William. Saturdays & Sundays excepted.
Nine carriage set departing London. 246 T 9 Cwt
With one sleeping car for Inverness and a sleeping compo to Fort William.
The Inverness sleeper to go forward to Strathpeffer as required.
8:15 p.m. London - Edinburgh, Montrose and Aberdeen. Saturdays & Sundays Excepted.
Eight carriage set departing London. 235 T 16 Cwt
With an E.C.J.S south-end Brake Third at the head of the train from Newcastle to Glasgow Queen Street. (This left London at 4:30 p.m. with a G.N.R. train).
Despite being an overnight train only one carriage (for Aberdeen) was a sleeping car.
8:45 p.m. London - Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street. Saturdays Excepted.
Eleven carriage set departing London. 274 T 5 Cwt
One G.N.R. non-vestibule 6-w brake van for Hull, detach Doncaster.
One G.N.R. non-vestibule 4-w G.P.O. mail van for Leeds, detach Doncaster.
Two G.N.R. 6-w G.P.O. mail vans for Newcastle.
One G.N. & N.E.J.S. Brake van ran as far as Newcastle.
One N.E.R. G.P.O. bogie van ran between Newcastle and Edinburgh early a.m. Tuesday to Saturday.
Like the 8:18 p.m. despite being an overnight train only one carriage (for Glasgow) was a sleeping car, this time a sleeping compo.
8:45 p.m. London - Edinburgh Glasgow Perth Montrose and Aberdeen. Saturdays Only.
Eleven carriage departing London. Weight 272 T 8 Cwt
One G.N.R. non-vestibule 4-w G.P.O. mail van for Leeds, detached at Doncaster.
Two G.N.R. 6-w G.P.O. mail vans for Newcastle.
One Brake Van from London for Perth
One S End Brake Third from Newcastle to Glasgow.
Two Brake Compos, One each from London to Edinburgh & Montrose.
The London to Glasgow portion had two Brake Vans, a Sleeper Composite & a Third.
8:45 p.m. London - Edinburgh and Glasgow. Sundays Only.
Eleven carriage departing London. Weight 303 T 8 Cwt
With one G.N.R. non-vestibule 4-wheel G.P.O. mail van for Leeds, detach Doncaster.
With two G.N.R. vestibule 6-wheel G.P.O. mail vans for Newcastle.
With G.N. & N.E.J.S. Pantry Third and Kitchen First running ECS to Newcastle.
With a N.E.R. G.P.O. bogie van ean between Newcastle and Edinburgh early a.m. Monday.
11:30 p.m. London - Aberdeen and Perth. Saturdays Only.
Eight carriage set departing London. 244 T 7 Cwt.
One sleeping car for Aberdeen & one for Perth.
11:45 p.m. London - Newcastle, North Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Monday to Friday.
Nine carriage set departing London. 282 T 12 Cwt.
One 6-w E.C.J.S non-vestibule Brake Van between Newcastle and Edinburgh which left London at 2:20 p.m ( Not Monday a.m. – which is the Sunday departure ex-London).
One E.C.J.S Sleeping car, Corridor Brake Composite and Corridor brake Third for Glasgow.
A G.N. & N.E.J.S portion for Newcastle (one G.N. & N.E.J.S. Sleeping car, G.N. & N.E.J.S. Corridor Third & G.N.R. bogie Corridor Brake Van).
An E.C.J.S. Sleeping car & E.C.J.S. Corridor Brake Compo for N. Berwick.
11:45 p.m. London - Newcastle, N. Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Saturdays Only.
Eight carriage set departing London. 227 T 17 Cwt.
Three Corridor Brake vans (BG) and a Corridor Brake Compo (BTK) departing London.
One brake van was a G.N. & N.E.J.S. carriage running to Newcastle, one a G.N.R. carriage running to Newcastle and the third a G.N.R. carriage running to York.
Like the 8:18 and 8:45 p.m. trains, only one carriage (for Glasgow) was a sleeping car.
The table in Harris shows that between Newcastle and Edinburgh the Saturday 11:45 p.m. includes a 6-w E.C.J.S. Brake Van to EC Diag 37 van. However, the table lists no Diag 37 as attached to Saturday’s 2:20 p.m. ex-London, so this van did not run in the 2:20 p.m. in order to meet the Saturday 11:45 p.m.
It is unclear as if it is a mistake from 1914, if the table means that on Sat at 5:00 a.m. there is a Diag 37 6-w van waiting at Newcastle ex-Friday’s 2:20 p.m. from London, or it is another Diag 37 van. No information how that van reached Newcastle from London. However, 20 6-w Diag 37 vans were built in 1883 with eight more built in 1893. By July 1914 Newcastle may have at least one such van to hand in the sidings.
EC Diag 37 No. 49 was destroyed in an accident at Montrose during December 1915.
The data for condemning/cascading EC Diag 37 vans is incomplete, so it's unclear the number in stock by July 1914. The lowest number of the class was “49” during July 1914 so Nos. 46A, 47A, and 48A were not in E.C. stock then. Disposals started before 1914. Five condemned 1911 & 13 (Nos. 52A, 54A, 100A, 101A & 106) whilst one was cascaded to the G.N.R. in 1913 (No.85A). Of the eight built by Cravens during 1893, one (No. 214) was condemned during 1919 while the other seven were cascaded 1919 to 1922, with five to the G.N.R. (Nos. 215 – 219) and two to the N.E.R. (Nos. 220-221). Possibly nine or more of the twenty-eight were in E.C. stock by July 1914 (Nos. 49 & 214-221).
11:45 p.m. London - Newcastle, North Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Sundays Only.
Nine carriage set on departure London. 282 T 12 Cwt.
One E.C.J.S Sleeping car, a Corridor Brake Compo and Corridor Brake Third for Glasgow.
A G.N. & N.E.J.S portion for Newcastle (one G.N. & N.E.J.S. Sleeping car, G.N. & N.E.J.S. Corridor Third & G.N.R. bogie Corridor Brake Van).
An E.C.J.S. Sleeping car and E.C.J.S. Corridor Brake Compo for North Berwick.
- The 6-w E.C.J.S. Brake van was not attached at Newcastle during the early hours of Monday morning to the 23:45 p.m. Sunday train from London to Edinburgh and Glasgow. My error to show it in the original posting.
- Ken Hoole wrote quoting an undated T.C.W.I. thatthe Down 8:55 a.m. Leeds - Glasgow Breakfast & Luncheon Express, via York, with nine N.E.R. corridor carriages, also conveyed an E.C.J.S. Brake Van from York and Edinburgh. This originated at London, departiure 5:05 a.m. with a G.N.R. semi-fast for York. The 5:05 a.m. is listed in the April 1910 Bradshaw's, (arr York 9:18 a.m.) Bradshaw's April 1910 has the Glasgow leaving Leeds at 9:00 a.m. departing York at 9:43 a.m. The 1922 Bradshaw's has the Glasgow train leaving Leeds at 8:55 a.m. but the train from London is then the 4:45 a.m.
This post will deal with the overall view of the Down trains. Further posts will show an overall view of the Up trains. with detailed allocations of both down and up trains following.
The E.C.J.S. Company ownership was shared between the G.N.R., N.E.R. and N.B.R., proportions related to mileage, which made the G.N.R. the "senior" partner. The E.C.J.S.C. supplied the carriages required to operate the express passenger services along the East Coast Main Line between London Kings Cross, Edinburgh Waverley, Glasgow Queen Street, Perth and Aberdeen.
More information received September 2019, edited and revised - Michael Harris Omitted the Saturday's Only version of the 8:45 p.m Down train in his 1995 book on GNR and ECJS Carriages Post-1905.
Down Trains
The summer of 1914 - On weekdays (Monday - friday) five daytime and four overnight express passenger trains between London and Edinburgh.
9:50 a.m. London - Edinburgh.
Eight carriages departing London. 257 T 14 Cwt.
This train was the relief for the 10:00 a.m.
This train ran to Edinburgh July - September.
During May London - Newcastle on Mondays and Fridays only.
During June london - Newcastle on weekdays (Mondays to Fridays).
10:00 a.m. London - Edinburgh, Glasgow, Perth and Aberdeen.
Ten carriage set departing London. 303 T 17 Cwt
G.N.R. nickname "The Scotch Express" - known as "The Flying Scotsman" in the L.N.E.R. era.
A feature of the 10 a.m. was having the N.E.R. TPO coach at the head of the down train between York and Edinburgh (re-positioning for its next up duty).
10:35 a.m. London - Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Ten carriage set departing London. 295 T 14 Cwt
With G.N.R. corridor carriage portions from London - Cromer, (detached at Peterborough) and ( Saturdays Only) Grantham – Doncaster.
With Midland Railway portion (attached at York) Bristol – Newcastle (Non-vestibule carriages)
With N.E.R. portion from Newcastle - Alnmouth (non-vestibule carriages).
11:20 a.m. London - Edinburgh, North Berwick, Perth and Montrose.
Nine carriage set departing London. 287 T 8 Cwt
A through Corridor Brake Compo to N. Berwick detach at Drem to attach to the N.B.R. branch train.
With a N.E.R. through Brake Composite (attached at Darlington) from Keswick to Newcastle. Non-vestibule carriage.
2:20 p.m. London - Edinburgh. Monday to Friday.
Nine carriage set departing London. 274 T 13 Cwt
Unofficial G.N.R. nickname "The Afternoon Scotch Express".
One 6-w non-vestibule Brake Van ran outside the E.C.J.S. Corridor Bogie Brake as far as Newcastle.
The 6-w van detached and then on from Newcastle to Edinburgh with the 11:45 p.m. ex-London.
2:20 p.m. London - Edinburgh. Saturdays Only.
Eleven carriage set departing London. Weight 364 T 9 Cwt.
One Brake Third for Edinburgh at the head of the train.
One Corridor Composite for Edinburgh fourth carriage in the train.
Both the above addded to the weekday train consist.
One south-end brake, G.N.R. Corridor Brake Compo ran outside the E.C.J.S. Brake rather than the weekday's 6-w Brake Van.
The G.N.R. carriage running as far as Newcastle, returning Up from there with the Sat 11:29 p.m. for London.
7:55 p.m. London - Inverness and Fort William. Saturdays & Sundays excepted.
Nine carriage set departing London. 246 T 9 Cwt
With one sleeping car for Inverness and a sleeping compo to Fort William.
The Inverness sleeper to go forward to Strathpeffer as required.
8:15 p.m. London - Edinburgh, Montrose and Aberdeen. Saturdays & Sundays Excepted.
Eight carriage set departing London. 235 T 16 Cwt
With an E.C.J.S south-end Brake Third at the head of the train from Newcastle to Glasgow Queen Street. (This left London at 4:30 p.m. with a G.N.R. train).
Despite being an overnight train only one carriage (for Aberdeen) was a sleeping car.
8:45 p.m. London - Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street. Saturdays Excepted.
Eleven carriage set departing London. 274 T 5 Cwt
One G.N.R. non-vestibule 6-w brake van for Hull, detach Doncaster.
One G.N.R. non-vestibule 4-w G.P.O. mail van for Leeds, detach Doncaster.
Two G.N.R. 6-w G.P.O. mail vans for Newcastle.
One G.N. & N.E.J.S. Brake van ran as far as Newcastle.
One N.E.R. G.P.O. bogie van ran between Newcastle and Edinburgh early a.m. Tuesday to Saturday.
Like the 8:18 p.m. despite being an overnight train only one carriage (for Glasgow) was a sleeping car, this time a sleeping compo.
8:45 p.m. London - Edinburgh Glasgow Perth Montrose and Aberdeen. Saturdays Only.
Eleven carriage departing London. Weight 272 T 8 Cwt
One G.N.R. non-vestibule 4-w G.P.O. mail van for Leeds, detached at Doncaster.
Two G.N.R. 6-w G.P.O. mail vans for Newcastle.
One Brake Van from London for Perth
One S End Brake Third from Newcastle to Glasgow.
Two Brake Compos, One each from London to Edinburgh & Montrose.
The London to Glasgow portion had two Brake Vans, a Sleeper Composite & a Third.
8:45 p.m. London - Edinburgh and Glasgow. Sundays Only.
Eleven carriage departing London. Weight 303 T 8 Cwt
With one G.N.R. non-vestibule 4-wheel G.P.O. mail van for Leeds, detach Doncaster.
With two G.N.R. vestibule 6-wheel G.P.O. mail vans for Newcastle.
With G.N. & N.E.J.S. Pantry Third and Kitchen First running ECS to Newcastle.
With a N.E.R. G.P.O. bogie van ean between Newcastle and Edinburgh early a.m. Monday.
11:30 p.m. London - Aberdeen and Perth. Saturdays Only.
Eight carriage set departing London. 244 T 7 Cwt.
One sleeping car for Aberdeen & one for Perth.
11:45 p.m. London - Newcastle, North Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Monday to Friday.
Nine carriage set departing London. 282 T 12 Cwt.
One 6-w E.C.J.S non-vestibule Brake Van between Newcastle and Edinburgh which left London at 2:20 p.m ( Not Monday a.m. – which is the Sunday departure ex-London).
One E.C.J.S Sleeping car, Corridor Brake Composite and Corridor brake Third for Glasgow.
A G.N. & N.E.J.S portion for Newcastle (one G.N. & N.E.J.S. Sleeping car, G.N. & N.E.J.S. Corridor Third & G.N.R. bogie Corridor Brake Van).
An E.C.J.S. Sleeping car & E.C.J.S. Corridor Brake Compo for N. Berwick.
11:45 p.m. London - Newcastle, N. Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Saturdays Only.
Eight carriage set departing London. 227 T 17 Cwt.
Three Corridor Brake vans (BG) and a Corridor Brake Compo (BTK) departing London.
One brake van was a G.N. & N.E.J.S. carriage running to Newcastle, one a G.N.R. carriage running to Newcastle and the third a G.N.R. carriage running to York.
Like the 8:18 and 8:45 p.m. trains, only one carriage (for Glasgow) was a sleeping car.
The table in Harris shows that between Newcastle and Edinburgh the Saturday 11:45 p.m. includes a 6-w E.C.J.S. Brake Van to EC Diag 37 van. However, the table lists no Diag 37 as attached to Saturday’s 2:20 p.m. ex-London, so this van did not run in the 2:20 p.m. in order to meet the Saturday 11:45 p.m.
It is unclear as if it is a mistake from 1914, if the table means that on Sat at 5:00 a.m. there is a Diag 37 6-w van waiting at Newcastle ex-Friday’s 2:20 p.m. from London, or it is another Diag 37 van. No information how that van reached Newcastle from London. However, 20 6-w Diag 37 vans were built in 1883 with eight more built in 1893. By July 1914 Newcastle may have at least one such van to hand in the sidings.
EC Diag 37 No. 49 was destroyed in an accident at Montrose during December 1915.
The data for condemning/cascading EC Diag 37 vans is incomplete, so it's unclear the number in stock by July 1914. The lowest number of the class was “49” during July 1914 so Nos. 46A, 47A, and 48A were not in E.C. stock then. Disposals started before 1914. Five condemned 1911 & 13 (Nos. 52A, 54A, 100A, 101A & 106) whilst one was cascaded to the G.N.R. in 1913 (No.85A). Of the eight built by Cravens during 1893, one (No. 214) was condemned during 1919 while the other seven were cascaded 1919 to 1922, with five to the G.N.R. (Nos. 215 – 219) and two to the N.E.R. (Nos. 220-221). Possibly nine or more of the twenty-eight were in E.C. stock by July 1914 (Nos. 49 & 214-221).
11:45 p.m. London - Newcastle, North Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow. Sundays Only.
Nine carriage set on departure London. 282 T 12 Cwt.
One E.C.J.S Sleeping car, a Corridor Brake Compo and Corridor Brake Third for Glasgow.
A G.N. & N.E.J.S portion for Newcastle (one G.N. & N.E.J.S. Sleeping car, G.N. & N.E.J.S. Corridor Third & G.N.R. bogie Corridor Brake Van).
An E.C.J.S. Sleeping car and E.C.J.S. Corridor Brake Compo for North Berwick.
- The 6-w E.C.J.S. Brake van was not attached at Newcastle during the early hours of Monday morning to the 23:45 p.m. Sunday train from London to Edinburgh and Glasgow. My error to show it in the original posting.
- Ken Hoole wrote quoting an undated T.C.W.I. thatthe Down 8:55 a.m. Leeds - Glasgow Breakfast & Luncheon Express, via York, with nine N.E.R. corridor carriages, also conveyed an E.C.J.S. Brake Van from York and Edinburgh. This originated at London, departiure 5:05 a.m. with a G.N.R. semi-fast for York. The 5:05 a.m. is listed in the April 1910 Bradshaw's, (arr York 9:18 a.m.) Bradshaw's April 1910 has the Glasgow leaving Leeds at 9:00 a.m. departing York at 9:43 a.m. The 1922 Bradshaw's has the Glasgow train leaving Leeds at 8:55 a.m. but the train from London is then the 4:45 a.m.
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