frattonstation
New member
so what is the difference between 10m or 5m baseboards???
10m or 5m??
- Thread starter frattonstation
- Start date
American_Connections
AC MonkeyWrench Models
10-5=1/2 of 10
Obviously, 5 meter boards are half the size of 10 meter boards, thus changes to terrain can be done in less distance!
Obviously, 5 meter boards are half the size of 10 meter boards, thus changes to terrain can be done in less distance!
The 5m grid allows for finer terrain adjustment so that the grades are not as blocky and styrofoam-block like.
I have used both, and there are some issues with the 5m grid that I have found. If you have created a 10m grid baseboard, textured it, etc., then don't convert it! If you do, your textures will become colored squares. I don't know if this is an unreported bug, or it's because of the way the textures and the grid work together. Believe me, I was quite shocked when my textures got wrecked when I did this. Once it happens, there's no way to fix them even if you replace the textures, or even retexture the area with the new 2009 textures. They'll line themselves up with the grid edges.
The other issue I have found is there's a performance hit with the smaller grid. This is due to the higher number of polys so there's more work for the PC to do.
So use caution if you do choose to use the 5m grid option.
John
I have used both, and there are some issues with the 5m grid that I have found. If you have created a 10m grid baseboard, textured it, etc., then don't convert it! If you do, your textures will become colored squares. I don't know if this is an unreported bug, or it's because of the way the textures and the grid work together. Believe me, I was quite shocked when my textures got wrecked when I did this. Once it happens, there's no way to fix them even if you replace the textures, or even retexture the area with the new 2009 textures. They'll line themselves up with the grid edges.
The other issue I have found is there's a performance hit with the smaller grid. This is due to the higher number of polys so there's more work for the PC to do.
So use caution if you do choose to use the 5m grid option.
John
john to solve the the ugly block textures press [or] when laying your textures
you'll notice the difference straight away
cheers,
patchty
You'll need to redo the textures if you convert to 5m after placing the baseboard. A little time consuming, but worth it. Especially if you go to 09 standard textures at the same time
Zec
Thank you for the suggestions, Patchy and Zec.
I am aware of the [] keys for rotating the textures and that works very nicely. The problem is when the older grid is used then converted to the 5m grid, the textures go from being swirled around to square. They also lose their mapping so the the texture its self is oversized. The textures even become absolutely square blocks, which I would love to be able to do in some situations.
Zec, I have attempted to replace the textures in this area with the new TS2009 native ones, but that didn't work. They too became oversized, lost their mapping settings, and became square blocks.
John
I am aware of the [] keys for rotating the textures and that works very nicely. The problem is when the older grid is used then converted to the 5m grid, the textures go from being swirled around to square. They also lose their mapping so the the texture its self is oversized. The textures even become absolutely square blocks, which I would love to be able to do in some situations.
Zec, I have attempted to replace the textures in this area with the new TS2009 native ones, but that didn't work. They too became oversized, lost their mapping settings, and became square blocks.
John
Sorry, I meant that you need to re-do the textures (and at the same time, try some of the various TS09 textures that are available, not just the Auran ones). When you change the grid, you'll lose the rotation of the textures. The replace assets tool cannot fix this.
Zec
Zec
I have a question. I'm working on a route, but have not placed any textures whatsoever. Right now, the only things in my layout are tracks, trackside objects (signals, gantries, junction switches, etc.), buildings and structures, and test train consists. All my baseboards so far are "blank" without any texture.
I converted a baseboard to 5m because I'm trying to create a 4 track station with different heights. The first two platforms are at 0 height (for subways or regular trains), and the other two are at 1m height (street running trams). To accomplish this, I had to use the 5m option.
So will the textures work if I put down textures later? Or am I already screwed? Does this 5m conversion work on one baseboard at a time, or is it an total universal conversion?
I converted a baseboard to 5m because I'm trying to create a 4 track station with different heights. The first two platforms are at 0 height (for subways or regular trains), and the other two are at 1m height (street running trams). To accomplish this, I had to use the 5m option.
So will the textures work if I put down textures later? Or am I already screwed? Does this 5m conversion work on one baseboard at a time, or is it an total universal conversion?
Thanks, guys. I have another question. Would it be better in the long run to just convert / use everything to either 10m or 5m, instead of baseboards here and there with either 5m or 10m? Or if I do it that way, will textures blend seamlessly from a 10m baseboard to a 5m baseboard? Or will it be choppy?
From scratch textures will be seamless unless you change from 10 to 5 after texturing, I have 5m for areas close to the track and 10m baseboards for things further away that are hopefully not going to be "inspected" :hehe:.
You get better control / accuracy for texturing those fiddly areas and more realistic cuttings embankments and ledges with the 5m grid as in they are narrower and not the width of a four lane highway.
About the texture blending where boards meet - I have never tried this. Might be your while to create a new "Experimental" route with one 5m and one 10m board and give it a go. (If you do I'd be interested in the result).
Thing about using 10m boards is that if you cover one with texturing and then later decide you need 5m for the terrain you have the texturing problem. I guess you have to weigh this up against the slight performance hit that the 5m boards entail - I'm not aware of any figures for this.
I'm not sure if you can convert back to 10m, I thought it was one way.....
Thing about using 10m boards is that if you cover one with texturing and then later decide you need 5m for the terrain you have the texturing problem. I guess you have to weigh this up against the slight performance hit that the 5m boards entail - I'm not aware of any figures for this.
I'm not sure if you can convert back to 10m, I thought it was one way.....
There is no problem with the texture blending on a joining 5 and 10m boards if you convert later as you have to redo the texture on the converted board anyway and the overspray?? will take care the blending. You convert back the same way as you converted in the first place just change the drop down back to 10 and click the board of course you then need to apply textures again. The downside as I discovered is if you are not paying attention properly hit the wrong board and screw up an evenings texturing work. I now do a manual save before changing the format.
FPS hit using 5m boards?, to be honest I can't see any difference or put another way when going from a 5m board to a 10m one there is no sudden change in frame rate.
If using a dem you can convert some or all boards to 5m, however you may get a very slight tearing effect in the baseboard mesh in areas of extreme terrain where a 10 joins a 5m board, easy fix for that is to convert that to 5 as well, other ways are just tweak the join with the plateau tool or stick a bush on it. We are talking of maybe a couple of metres gap nothing major.
Merging however can be a problem as I found out adding to a 5m converted DEM and required a bit of smoothing on the join, moral there is convert the dem you are going to merge first.
It's not a 1 baseboard will make a huge difference thing. It's more of a large scale issue with the 5m boards. Remember, a 5m baseboard means that you have doubled the number of polygons on the board.
The more polys you put in a scene, the lower the performance will be. In this case, you've doubled the polys. It's recommended that you only use 5m grid where you need it (close to the track, or in highly detailed areas). I build a 3 mile long DEM based layout early this year (haven't been able to get it release ready yet
). This layout uses 5m grid on boards that have an edge within 50m of the track (or around that distance), with 10m grid used beyond that. This gives a reasonable performance, although I feel that it may still be a little overdone myself. At this stage, you will need to experiment. But try taking a large route, such as the Razorback Railway, and convert the entire thing to 5m grid for a test (don't worry about textures at this stage). This would show what having every board at 5m would do. However, this route is generally 1 baseboard wide, which gives us a problem. What would it be like on a 5 or 10 baseboard wide layout?
Just some things to keep in mind with the new higher detail systems available
Zec
The more polys you put in a scene, the lower the performance will be. In this case, you've doubled the polys. It's recommended that you only use 5m grid where you need it (close to the track, or in highly detailed areas). I build a 3 mile long DEM based layout early this year (haven't been able to get it release ready yet
). This layout uses 5m grid on boards that have an edge within 50m of the track (or around that distance), with 10m grid used beyond that. This gives a reasonable performance, although I feel that it may still be a little overdone myself. At this stage, you will need to experiment. But try taking a large route, such as the Razorback Railway, and convert the entire thing to 5m grid for a test (don't worry about textures at this stage). This would show what having every board at 5m would do. However, this route is generally 1 baseboard wide, which gives us a problem. What would it be like on a 5 or 10 baseboard wide layout?Just some things to keep in mind with the new higher detail systems available
Zec
My layout has like 20 baseboards now, and only one of them is 5m. In the 5m board, I only raised terrain in a rough 20 x 4 grid area (raised it by 1.2 meters), everything else is at 0 height. I had to do this so that the AJS station kit and the heavy rail subway (platform at standard 1.3m height) and light rail trolley (platform at ground level) lines meet up on adjacent platforms (level, no steps or anything).
Will the performance hit occur if I only sculpt a small area (say, 5 x 5 yellow squares) of a 5m baseboard, or does it occur at a flat rate regardless of how much terrain sculpting I use with 5m grids as opposed as sculpting 10m blocks in a 5m baseboard?
Will the performance hit occur if I only sculpt a small area (say, 5 x 5 yellow squares) of a 5m baseboard, or does it occur at a flat rate regardless of how much terrain sculpting I use with 5m grids as opposed as sculpting 10m blocks in a 5m baseboard?
Hi Zec,
Just curious, if you go from 10m to 5m you now have 4 squares where there was one. Does this not mean you have four times the number of polys? Can't get my head around this - but then I was never any good at Maths.......
Cheers
Chris
You are quite correct - I was fooled by the confirmation message which says "this cannot be undone", I now see what they mean by that!