To buy, or not to buy an iMac - That is the Question

[NeonTheGriffon]

Hi everyone.
So I'm looking at Macs, I've previously owned Macbook Pros before, and I loved them. I unfortunately had to sell them a while back though, so now that I'm back on my feet (sorta), I'm looking at my mac options.
I'm currently looking at a 2011 27" iMac ( with an i7 - specs here http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...inch-aluminum-mid-2011-thunderbolt-specs.html ), however for the $1,300 that I'm paying for that used, I'm considering just hackintoshing up another setup.
Now, I'm quite familiar with the process of doing that, however I'm more interested in a beefy computer that's going to last me a while. Because I don't exactly want the latest and greatest stuff, I'm looking at Intel's 2009 Nehalem architecture.
Specifically, if I go with the option I'm considering, I may end up building a computer with twin Intel Xeon X5650 processors (6 core, 2.66GHz - I can always upgrade them later if I desire). I know trainz doesn't utilize that many cores, though I'm not just using this computer for Trainz, I'm also using it for video rendering, 3D modeling, and the likes. With that in mind, I'd think a dual 6 core system running OS X and Windows 7 would be the best for me, however I'm not sure if I should go with that option and get a build with more bang for my buck, or get a system that's guaranteed to run OS X as long as it lives and is supported by Apple.
The logic board I'd likely choose is the Classified SR-2 from EVGA, and I'd probably stuff in 16GB per CPU (32GB total) and start out with a pair of GTX 760 cards, which should handle trainz fine.
Storage would be a pair of 480GB Sandisk Extreme II SSDs.
Any input is welcome, but just know that I'm not building a rig just for trainz, I use my computer for far more stuff

 

[drchoi21]

if you are not going to overclock that board, then that board is just a waste, Supermicro X8DAH is what I would reccomend. Hackintoshes are generally reliable if you get them right.

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

if you are not going to overclock that board, then that board is just a waste, Supermicro X8DAH is what I would reccomend. Hackintoshes are generally reliable if you get them right.

Hate to be "That guy" and ask this question but, does this board support custom BIOS splash screens?
I have a tendency to like doing that on my intel server boards.

 

[drchoi21]

Yes, if you can do BIOS modifications, I did a few with myself.

 

[nicky9499]

This'll come in handy.

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

This'll come in handy.

Thanks... But not quite helpful.
I'm building a hackintosh based off of the original Mac Pro's architecture (Nehalem - 2009 model and socket) so I get the closest to mac experience as possible, and a high-end machine to boot. (at least six cores)
I'm still deciding if I really need that extra proc though, because if not then I can just pony up to the $400 close to 3GHz version of the procs I'm currently considering, plus with a gigabyte board, I could possibly OC it.

 

[WindWalkr]

I'm currently looking at a 2011 27" iMac

I have the mid-2010 model, upgraded to 24GB RAM and a fusion drive. These are definitely very nice machines and run rings around similarly-specced Windows boxes for non-gaming use.

I'm considering just hackintoshing up another setup.

Not something that you can compare directly to a 'real' mac; what you gain in terms of raw performance-for-price, you tend to lose out in terms of 'build quality' and software integration. More cores and faster GPUs is always going to be a win in the long run, but make sure that you're picking items that are properly supported by the MacOS- the last thing you want is to find that you can't actually take advantage of your GPU, or can't upgrade your OS to the latest.

cheers,

chris

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

I have the mid-2010 model, upgraded to 24GB RAM and a fusion drive. These are definitely very nice machines and run rings around similarly-specced Windows boxes for non-gaming use.

I did not think the iMac supported that much RAM, but okay then. If I were to buy one, I'd probably just shove a SanDisk Extreme II in it (Huge SanDisk and Seagate fanboys, the first brand has been totally reliable with my D5000 and the second has been reliable for my server use), but my only concern is taking that glass off.
More specifically, I broke one of my MacBook Pros by trying to take the glass off to replace my airport card which burnt out, and I ended up selling it for parts and buying a 2008 15" pro at the time.
I'm still all in the air for this option, however, I just need someone to possibly do the "Dirty work" for me

Not something that you can compare directly to a 'real' mac; what you gain in terms of raw performance-for-price, you tend to lose out in terms of 'build quality' and software integration. More cores and faster GPUs is always going to be a win in the long run, but make sure that you're picking items that are properly supported by the MacOS- the last thing you want is to find that you can't actually take advantage of your GPU, or can't upgrade your OS to the latest.

This is why I'm building it on the same arch. as the 2009 Mac Pro was built on, because support would be native for the chipset. I'm still clowning around the net to find a 100% confirmed NVidia card for the build that would be great for rendering 3D models of trains (seeing how I'm holding off until I'm an adult before I do this, but I want to start a die-cast model supplier for trains), and yet still run Trainz decently.
I'm also looking forward to T:ANE, which seems to have multicore support from what I hear.

Again, I'm not leaning toward one option or the other, I'm still very neutral, however they'd both cost around the same price.

 

[drchoi21]

GTX 680 would work perfectly for this job, and I would advise buying an Ivy-Bridge Based Gigabyte Boards for Hackintoshes, because they too, also have native support in Mac OSX. Gigabyte boards have been known to work with Mac OSX with little or no kext changes at all. My self built a hackintosh, and it is very stable and every feature is supported.

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

GTX 680 would work perfectly for this job, and I would advise buying an Ivy-Bridge Based Gigabyte Boards for Hackintoshes, because they too, also have native support in Mac OSX. Gigabyte boards have been known to work with Mac OSX with little or no kext changes at all. My self built a hackintosh, and it is very stable and every feature is supported.

My only complaint that the i7-4960X is $1,000 alone. That's the cost of 99% of the iMac I want.
If I go with the hackintosh build, I'm going to go as far as possible with $1,200.

 

[WindWalkr]

I did not think the iMac supported that much RAM, but okay then.

The manual says 16GB (4x4GB) but I upgraded just after the 8GB SODIMM sticks came onto the market. Was a bit expensive, but it works.

More specifically, I broke one of my MacBook Pros by trying to take the glass off

Ouch :-(

I went out and bought the proper tools for the glass removal. They're cheap compared to the cost of broken glass..

I'm still all in the air for this option, however, I just need someone to possibly do the "Dirty work" for me

Having done the hackintosh thing before, my gut feel is that you should avoid this. It leads to a very high-maintenance (the Apple-provided software and patches don't work out of the box, some of the distros don't work perfectly on some hardware, etc.) experience and performance/usability/experience was not as good as a real mac, at least when I tried it a few years back. If you're doing this for fun, then by all means go for it (if it's legal where you live) but if you're hoping to do serious work on this machine and don't want to spend a lot of time tinkering, then it's probably not worth the effort.

I'm also looking forward to T:ANE, which seems to have multicore support from what I hear.

Yes, it very definitely does

kind regards,

chris

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

The manual says 16GB (4x4GB) but I upgraded just after the 8GB SODIMM sticks came onto the market. Was a bit expensive, but it works.




Ouch :-(

I went out and bought the proper tools for the glass removal. They're cheap compared to the cost of broken glass..




Having done the hackintosh thing before, my gut feel is that you should avoid this. It leads to a very high-maintenance (the Apple-provided software and patches don't work out of the box, some of the distros don't work perfectly on some hardware, etc.) experience and performance/usability/experience was not as good as a real mac, at least when I tried it a few years back. If you're doing this for fun, then by all means go for it (if it's legal where you live) but if you're hoping to do serious work on this machine and don't want to spend a lot of time tinkering, then it's probably not worth the effort.




Yes, it very definitely does

kind regards,

chris

Ah okay, I could probably settle for the iMac then. The thing I was referring to by "Dirty work" was having someone remove the panel so I can go in and install the SSD, and then have the same person re-install everything.
Know of any good places to find a 2010-2011 iMac (27in) for a reasonable price? I dislike the new thin ones and having to buy another CD drive, I mean I know I'm going to need to when I buy my Retina Pro, but for now I'd like my desk clutter free.

 

[drchoi21]

you don't have to buy 4960X to make it successful, and for the love of all the woman, do not buy an iMac, it's a pain to upgrade anything other than memory and HDD.

 

[nicky9499]

Chris is right. If you're not willing to do the "dirty work" then Hackintosh is probably not for you. Much headaches to be had with kexts, kernel panics and updates etc etc. It's definitely 100% illegal and you can't call up Apple support if things go lopsided. Hardware for Hackintoshes, in my experience, are harder to find as they're usually very specific parts (example: GA-H67N works but GA-H67MA doesn't), usually less value-for-money than a "non-Hackintosh" part because it's older and less common.

Get a Mac or build a PC.

you don't have to buy 4960X to make it successful, and for the love of all the woman, do not buy an iMac, it's a pain to upgrade anything other than memory and HDD.

You can't even update the HDD on the newer 21"/27" models (at least not without much difficulty). Apple has replaced the standard 4-pin drive power connectors with a 7-pin proprietary ones. They've put custom firmware on the stock drives such that removing or replacing it will cause all fans to spin at 100% and fail the AHT. In addition, you can't simply add a second drive like you do on Macbook Pros; if the iMac didn't come from the factory with a secondary drive, the mounting bracket for that will not be present. If it originally came with an SSD, the HDD temp sensor will not be present either.

 

[NeonTheGriffon]

You can't even update the HDD on the newer 21"/27" models (at least not without much difficulty).

I cleared up what I meant by "Dirty work" in an earlier reply referring to upgrading the hard drive and RAM on an older iMac, which is what I'm in the market for. I don't buy computers used, EVER, because I've had so many excellent experiences with used computers in my past that I'd rather not throw money into the toilet for bubble wrap.
Besides, I have to buy camera bodies new so I don't have to worry about sensor or shutter issues, the savings go into that.
With that being said, I'll clarify again that I am looking for a 2010/2011 27" iMac with an i5-i7 (preferably the later), not the thin ones. and I'd like to upgrade that with the SSD and likely, 24GB of RAM.

Everyone seems to be referring the dirty work as me being lazy and not wanting to deal with the whole hackintosh process. My HP laptop was once hackintoshed, I just temporarily swapped the hard drive out until I can drop a few bucks on a supported WiFi card. The Dirty work refers to removing the glass on the iMac so that I can upgrade it. I cracked a screen once, History sure isn't going to repeat it's self.

 

[nicky9499]

Still, good luck with upgrading the drives in your (new?) used Mac. If it came from the factory with one drive, you're going to be missing a few cables and fittings to install your second one. Also, aforementioned proprietary hardware issues and with mid-2011 models onwards, there is a layer of software nonsense to make your life even harder. Buy your drive from OWC, they're not the cheapest but they're your safest bet for compatible hardware.