This is what's wrong with America...

[butter]

Now with all condolences to the brave men who served, and have served; this is a very sad story.
I saw somewhere else on the forums something about this I think, but anyone with half a mind probably could have saw this coming, but Check it out for yourself...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...RASH?SITE=OHFIN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

"The lawsuit claims the railroad was negligent in 28 ways, including failing to provide reasonable and timely audible and visual warning of the approaching train and failure to provide a safe railroad crossing. It also says the train did not brake or otherwise attempt to slow and the railroad hadn't fixed what it claims are hazardous conditions posed by the road grade."

"...federal investigators have already determined the truck moved onto the tracks after the red flashing lights and bells activated."

It is interesting though, the crossing was set for 25 MPH trains to have a 30 second lapse in time, but there was only 20 for this one, which still fits American rules... I certainly will be watching to see how this goes..

 

[Euphod]

Yeah, I saw this too, and it is depressing. One has to wonder if the driver of the truck will sue the UP as well, or, being a veteran himself will take the blame for his error in judgement.

 

[GeorgeCW]

As bad as this is you still have to ask has a train ever gotten off the track at a crossing and chased someone?

 

[mp202]

My condolences for the veterans and their families. Also I cant imagine what the engineer is going through having this weigh down on him. Quite depressing no matter how you look at it.

 

[jlp1551]

Dang lawyers, going after the deep pockets, hoping the nusance lawsuit will generate some money

 

[kws4000]

Failure to provide adequete warning despite being within Federal Regulations? It appears to me that the one to be sued should be the Government. But no one can really question an Administrative Agency, so there goes that option.

The train did not brake? Of course it couldn't, it's not Artificially Intelligent! It needs human input to apply the brakes! No doubt the Laws of Physics will try to be repealed in this case....

Their one goal being "that this never happens again'? Once every single backwater-nothing railroad is on a grade seperation with concrete walls and stations are equipped with heated, protected walkways direct to the door like an airplane.... I don't see that ever coming true, "that this never happens again".

My feelings go out to the vets, but I can have no pity on those who think they can beat a train and win. P1+P2=P1'+P2', dP=M*dV, F*dT=M*dV, F=M*A, A=dV/dT,......Math wins. Period.

 

[AJ_Fox]

No need to take this thread political. It's a very unfortunate incident. I'm sure no one involved wanted this to happen.

Cheers

AJ

 

[sniper297]

Lawyers always do that, civil or criminal they toss in the kitchen sink knowing most of it will be gone before the trial actually starts, and can be used as bargaining chips. Example, get into a fight and get charged with assault with a deadly weapon, they'll also add operating an unsafe vehicle since the car you drove in had a leaky muffler, carrying a concealed weapon, disturbing the peace, littering since you dropped you cigarette when the fight started, resisting arrest, battery, and creating a public health and safety hazard from all the spilled blood. Pre trial motions get rid of most of those, and civil suits are no different except in cases like this where the main goal is to get the deep pocket companies to settle out of court for some amount less than what it would cost to defend in court.

 

[H222]

Now with all condolences to the brave men who served, and have served; this is a very sad story.

Maybe it's just America's general mindset, but as I see it, they were in the wrong, regardless of who they are.. You shouldn't get special treatment and immunity because you 'protected your country' yadayadayada stuff you hear everyday. The second you hear an American accent here they say, 'we as Americans, know deep in our hearts that our brave troops are risking their brave lives to protect the world,' and it's rather annoying.. Especially during political campaigns

Jamie

 

[BD1]

placemarker

 

[bnsf50]

I agree with Sniper. And why not sue the railroad, they're the ones with the deep pockets. Lawsuits happen all of the time around here usually against Amtrak, because we have a lot of rural farm road crossings out along Santa Fe Way between Bakersfield and Wasco. And I like that one statement "the train didn't even try to stop". As if a train can stop on a dime. Sounds like someone needs to do a little research on train stopping distance. You know the engineer most likely had the train in emergency stop. As to the 20 to 30 second rule, crossings any more are set up to activate according to the speed of the train, IE the faster the train is going the farther away from the crossing it will be when the crossing activates to meet the 20 to 30 second rule. They have found that more time than that will cause the drivers to get impatient and go around the gates. Bottom line in this case is the truck driver ran the crossing lights and lives were lost. Negligent homicide against the truck driver comes to mind.

 

[StorkNest]

That's what you get in this world today. The government is probably behind on updating their standards.

Maybe it's just America's general mindset, but as I see it, they were in the wrong, regardless of who they are.. You shouldn't get special treatment and immunity because you 'protected your country' yadayadayada stuff you hear everyday. The second you hear an American accent here they say, 'we as Americans, know deep in our hearts that our brave troops are risking their brave lives to protect the world,' and it's rather annoying.. Especially during political campaigns

Jamie

Not that simple. It would take a whole separate topic to explain.

I agree with Sniper. And why not sue the railroad, they're the ones with the deep pockets. Lawsuits happen all of the time around here usually against Amtrak, because we have a lot of rural farm road crossings out along Santa Fe Way between Bakersfield and Wasco.

Amtrak is the government, not a private company, no deep pockets at Amtrak.

 

[sniper297]

Main trouble with that one is most people just don't get Isaac Newton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azV5bC2br-Q

That's about a tornado derailing a train, but note the wreck after 1:15 - the tank car is completely off the front bogey and sliding rather than rolling, yet it keeps coming on - Newtonian physics, an object in motion tends to remain in motion at the same speed in the same direction, mass times momentum means the engineer MUST think about all that tonnage behind him, it's coming toward him and if he hits the emergency brake it's gonna keep coming. Lot of kinetic energy involved, that energy has to be dissipated over time and distance so jamming it into emergency at high speeds merely makes an accordion behind you that piles up around your ears and sends 150 ton cars flying out at angles to destroy and kill a wider swath on the sides - and you hit the vehicle anyway, along with a bunch of others that aren't in the grade crossing as it all comes off the tracks.

If it goes to trial (unlikely, they're looking for money rather than justice) the jury would be educated on all this, and shown footage from DOT cameras like the one in the video.

 

[Engineerkenny]

I did a current event on this same one

 

[grms]

That's what you get in this world today. The government is probably behind on updating their standards.

Very unlikely in this instance.

Every LX incident around the world, people try and make excuses for what in 99.9% cases is just human stupidity. Same here in Australia - the sun was in the (vehicle) drivers eyes, the lights weren't working, the bells weren't working, the booms stay down too long and people get impatient, the booms didn't come down quickly enough, why didn't the train driver stop in time.

We had one a couple of weeks ago where a truck drove past the warning lights and through the boom gates. A suburban train hit the truck and a passenger was killed - yet all the media and public comment was desperately angled and trying to shift the blame onto the rail side of the equation.

The worst aspect of this the lawyers toying with people's emotions when the likelihood in this case is they won't get a cent from the railroad. :n:

 

[sniper297]

They might get some money, what the big pocket corporations who are so attractive to ambulance chasers generally do is turn stuff like that over to their legal department, who takes some measurements;
1. Public relations problem? How much would it take to make it go away if we offer a settlement?
2. If we do settle will it encourage copycats with future lawsuits?

If 1 is yes and 2 is no, pay whatever it takes to shut them up.
If 1 is no and 2 is yes, millions for defense and not a penny for settlement.

A company like UP is gonna have a legal department with a bunch of shysters on staff, ho-hum another lawsuit similar to the one in Nebraska last Tuesday, we get sued all the time no big deal.

 

[StorkNest]

Very unlikely in this instance.

Very likely in the USA. I worked for the government, also followed some of the government-railroad issues, some things the old American government is behind on and I would not be surprised to see that here. I fully believe that no matter how any lawsuit goes, both the big railroads and the government are discussing some of this privately, it sometimes takes something like this to make the government go, "Darn, we need to fix up the regulations."

 

[H222]

If this would have been some LGBT or an Emo parade, would it have had the same attention?

Jamie

 

[StorkNest]

If this would have been some LGBT or an Emo parade, would it have had the same attention?

Jamie

SSSSOOOOOOO NOT TOUCHING THIS. :hehe: Hook up the pusher and shove it in the scrapyard.

 

[Euphod]

If this would have been some LGBT or an Emo parade, would it have had the same attention? Jamie

Well, I don't know about the latter, but if it were the former, I'm sure it would have had even more attention!