Open Letter to the Trainz Community

[JCitron]

Point is, when I get it, I will buy it. Still, 70$ is a lot, especially when Tony's argument is more builtin, part of which is actually freeware. The Niddertalbahn for example was never intended to generate cash and never did so for the original creators. If there were anything that made this release REALLY special except for some more fancy graphics like at any release, such as the multiplayer surveyor, I wouldn't have a problem. The whole subscription idea was for the multiplayer suveyor. Now it's being rolled out without it. Just a wild guess, but could that whole surveyor feature thing have been a test to see how far people were prepared to go?

It looks like the plans changed from concept to implementation as they say in the software development world. I don't think it was an intentional slip, nor a way to rope on and deceive the users. The multiplayer surveyor is most likely going to be yet another thing to subscribe to when and if it ever comes out. I had the opportunity to test this in the Trainz Dev group about a year or more ago, and there was still a lot of work to do on it.

The initial price for the standalone TRS2019 is $70, but as Tony said it will go on sale from time to time and the price and bundles will change like they always have. The $70 version is no different than purchasing T:ANE or any other previous version of Trainz. The subscription model is for those that want to get into the betas and get all the DLC right off. With the traditional product, you have the opportunity to download/purchase what you want separately just as you do now with T:ANE.

The "model" you use is up to you and how you want to do it.

 

[pware]

Okay Tony, so you get to pay more money to buy this product than ever before...

Another myth that has already been "busted". Anyone who doesn't want to pay the full price doesn't have pay it. They can wait until a sale occurs, or it drops its price (as TANE has done from its original high price which was not much different), or continue to use TANE. No-one is forcing anyone to buy TS19 at any price.

if trs 2019 should be so expensive because it is better than TANE, we'd already be at over 100$ by now.

That makes absolutely no sense to me at all, apart from the fact that you complain about TS19 being "over priced" in one statement and then say it should be even more expensive in another.

The gold subscription is a total rip-off. The payware never was worth its price, sve for a few exceptions. Most freeware is much better. I also never needed a permanent FCT.

All of which is your personal opinion, not fact. Gold subscription sales are, apparently, exceeding expectations so obviously many disagree with you. I will agree that some freeware (not most - just read the threads about the quality of the assets on the DLS) is better than some payware but that often comes down to the time that freeware creators can spend on their work as opposed to the deadline pressures for commercial work. I have a permanent (lifetime to 2036) FCT and love it.

But subscribers will lose the game the moment they unsubscribe.

This has already been "flogged to death". They lose access only while they are not subscribed. Once again, if you don't like it don't buy it. Other people will make their own decisions regardless of your or my opinions.

It's sad that probably the best train sim on the market ruins itsself by its own pricing policy.

That is a commercial decision that they have made and obviously they would have done their research beforehand. The success of the Gold sales so far seems to indicate that it is probably a winner.

My opinions only.

 

[meatloaf747]

It certainly isn't in our current plans and clearly the attitude of many of our customers would need to change or it wouldn't make any sense at all.
Even if a million users were willing to pay $1 a month then I still think we'd offer the store option for those that are opposed to subs

That's great to read Tony. Having both options available seems common sense to me as well. Good business practice that keeps both sides of the coin happy. (The good old dollar each way bet)...

Cheers Mac.

 

[MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS]

Is that the $15 gold one or the $150 one? If it is the $15 of course that makes sense why it would be off the charts...

 

[Vals_Loeder]

Could you link to where you read that?

Do your own research. It is clear from all previous made statements by N3V here and on the t19 website.

 

[Forester1]

One other question I have: There is no point in me upgrading to TS2019 right now as I don't have the computer power. I run T:ANE in what I call "cartoon mode", which is all the settings lowest, and once in a while it won't stutter in cab view. So I cannot get any advantage from the graphic improvements at all. My question is: I look forward to someday replacing my current system with a power gamer system. If it is a year from now, will I be able to upgrade to say a gold membership at that time and be able to get all the DLC content that has been made available until then? Or, will I lose out on some of that content because I was late to the party?

 

[RRSignal]

Another myth that has already been "busted". Anyone who doesn't want to pay the full price doesn't have pay it. They can wait until a sale occurs, or it drops its price (as TANE has done from its original high price which was not much different), or continue to use TANE. No-one is forcing anyone to buy TS19 at any price.

This is an utter falsehood. At $9.99 a month for the lowest plan, you'll pay more in 7 months than if you bought the product outright, assuming a roughly $70 for the buy-once product. That makes even Microsoft's and Adobe's subscriptions seem like a bargain.

We're not even talking about the Gold Plan, what happens to your product if you cancel the subscription, etc.

 

[amigacooke]

This is an utter falsehood.

It would be if you had to get a subscription to use TRS19, but you don't. I'm not interested in the subscription service myself, but if others want to use it, that's no skin off my nose.

 

[RRSignal]

It would be if you had to get a subscription to use TRS19, but you don't. I'm not interested in the subscription service myself, but if others want to use it, that's no skin off my nose.

The point being: You will pay far more in a few months of a subscription than if you bought outright. That's why software makers are pushing the subscription/SaaS model and slowly eliminating one-time purchase (perpetual-license) options. Not really sure why this is such a difficult concept for some to grasp.

 

[amigacooke]

The point being: You will pay far more in a few months of a subscription than if you bought outright. That's why software makers are pushing the subscription/SaaS model and slowly eliminating one-time purchase (perpetual-license) options. Not really sure why this is such a difficult concept for some to grasp.

It's not, that's why there's been such a lot of noise from those who are making it clear they are not interested in a subscription model. Tony has also made it clear that there is no plan to change the availability of the traditional buying model.

 

[clam1952]

Put bluntly whether we agree with subscriptions or not, it's up to the individual to decide what to do with their money, pointless arguing over it or trying to influence people, time to move on and play Trainz ;o)

 

[PC_Ace]

Isn't it great that N3V have given us more choices - without abandoning the old tried-and-true purchase model?
Read; Absorb the options; Apply them to your needs: Then make a buying (or leasing) decision that makes sense for you.
Simple:

 

[pware]

This is an utter falsehood. At $9.99 a month for the lowest plan, you'll pay more in 7 months than if you bought the product outright, assuming a roughly $70 for the buy-once product. That makes even Microsoft's and Adobe's subscriptions seem like a bargain.

I was referring to the price for the standalone product - there has never been a subscription option for Trainz so what else could the original claim "pay more money to buy this product than ever before" possibly mean. It is similar to what I originally paid for TANE when it was first released. As for the subscription rate, it is up to individuals to decide if what they are getting is worth what they are paying. I made my decision and bought the standalone product - others can make their own decisions.

Why are people so "up tight" about being given choices?

 

[narrowgauge]

This is getting tiresome!

Why is subscription such a problem. our lives are all based on subscription payments. We pay 'subscription' for food, petrol(gas), accommodation and even the internet. Think of the uproar there would be if you when were born, your parents would have to make a gargantuan payment against your lifetime expenses. Your employer pays you on a subscription basis, I guess that none of you would work on the basis of a single payment now, and then you work for a year before you get another payment.

What is being forgotten here is that you are not forced to use the subscription method, you can buy the program outright and forfeit any future updates, or decide that you can manage without it. The choice is totally yours, no-one is twisting your arm.

Peter

 

[RRSignal]

there has never been a subscription option for Trainz so what else could the original claim "pay more money to buy this product than ever before" possibly mean. It is similar to what I originally paid for TANE when it was first released. As for the subscription rate, it is up to individuals to decide if what they are getting is worth what they are paying. I made my decision and bought the standalone product - others can make their own decisions.

Why are people so "up tight" about being given choices?

That "choice" is exactly what proves the point! It's a true apples-to-apples comparison of the cost of a subscription versus a one time purchase. (Well, ok, even that "purchase" is still really a rental, but the minutiae of software licensing is another topic for another time, and already had been discussed elsewhere.) We're comparing the SAME PRODUCT here, obtained using the two different choices available.

Again, not hard.

 

[PC_Ace]

narrowgauge -

This is getting tiresome!​

100% agree.

However; (Minor quibble with your statement above, in case people get the wrong impression) Those who choose to buy TRS2019 the traditional way via the Trainz Store do NOT have to forfeit their right to any future updates. They are eligible for - and can access them too if desired - instead of having them spoon-fed via their subscription.

 

[narrowgauge]

PC_Ace

It is my understanding that Gold subscribers will get updates as they become available, 'traditional' users will get them when there are enough to make a full release worthwhile. I'll agree, not quite the black or white situation I suggested. I consider this is something worth paying for.

I must confess I cannot understand the reason for this angst, Trainz is a hobby/game and therefore not vital to our existence.

If everyone was forced to front up with cash in advance, our world would not work. In our case, no-one is being forced to pay anything they don't want to, for something they could live without.

Peter

 

[pware]

That "choice" is exactly what proves the point! It's a true apples-to-apples comparison of the cost of a subscription versus a one time purchase. We're comparing the SAME PRODUCT here, obtained using the two different choices available.

We seem to be going round in circles. We are not comparing the SAME PRODUCT. With the Gold subscription, and to a lesser extent with the Silver subscription, you are getting a lot of extras, some "free" (i.e. included in the subscription) and some at a discount (if you want them), that purchasers of the standalone product, like me, will have to pay the full price. Gold subscribers also get program updates and free trial of new DLC items before anyone else. Some people like that, but it is not important to me.

Its a bit like deciding between buying a new car outright or getting exactly the same model on a lease payment. The car lease comes with additional servicing, petrol (gas) discounts/vouchers, optional extras that those who buy outright do not get, discounts on other optional extras, etc. But only while you keep up the lease payments - if not then they take everything back. Leasing is usually a more expensive option but I have friends who only ever get their cars under a lease agreement, not outright purchase. Me, I don't own a car at all - that is a choice I have made.

I understand that you (obviously) do not like the new options they are offering but others obviously do. If that is how they want to spend their money then they have that right and what is the problem? Perhaps N3V could have come up with a better leasing arrangement, and maybe they will "down the track" but for now we can all choose from what is available, including not buying at all.

 

[railventure]

Thanks Tony

We're exploring physical distribution options but not at this point for the Early Access version.

 

[wilts747]

Would I be right in thinking there is a new version of Trainz available because there are more members and guests on line than there has been for ages and the Forum is tending towards War and Peace. No I've not decided which TRS2019 to go for but there seems to be much logic in not having anything to do with anything 'pre' as was the case with T:ANE, each of the three SP for T:ANE and now TRS2019 when battle lines are drawn between members and between members and N3V.

As wiser people than I have already said you pays your money and makes your choice, or you hold back and wait for the initial hype to settle and hear what other are say closer to or after full release. However I do question the advantages to the business model of the pre-release strategy and whether in the long term it is sustainable at whatever cost to the consumer.

Last night I spent time viewing the TRS2019 screen shots already posted on the Forum and the videos on Youtube and I would suggest those who have yet to decide their involvement with TRS2019 doing likewise. I'm sure a few more screen shots and videos would be much appreciated from those who are already running TRS2019 together with some constructive reviews of their chosen options to assist the silent majority in their choice in moving forward from T:ANE. In the mean time however I think it would be prudent to dust of my trusted Linux laptop which runs TR2010 very well as I may just need it. Peter