Jasonbarnos special thread to discuss things one on one with Tony Hilliam

[iannz]

Well Trainz as a MMO, this sounds great. I play EvE Online and its a subscription base game, I pay $260 a year to pay for two accounts, and sometimes I buy in-game currency. I also buy a train ticket which IMHO is also a form of subscription to download content from creators who give it away for me to download. You old farts think you own the game for $60 give me a break. An MMO will only improve the game over time, because an MMO is always a work that is never finished and only get better over time and it keeps everybody working.

There is always more ways to pay for this without just paying a sub.

1. Game money in Trainz can be earn using a trading activity.
2. Real Money can purchased Monthly Game Time (MGT).
3. Game money can be used to buy monthly game time using a player run market system.
4. Game money can be used to buy content for railroads in the player run market system.
5. Players could form rail road companies to compete against each other.
6. Rail roads can go bankrupt for lack of activity (Not paying the bills).

So some kind of competition is needed to keep the game active and interesting.

So the question is how do we gather the resources? What is the build time? Can we trade between shards? How does interchange work.

E.g. I'm a content creator and I build a saw mill that builds railroad ties. A railroad needs to lay track but it needs the ties, the rail, spikes, and all the other stuff for one mile of track. Another player will lease the mill from me, as a content creator any lease money earn with game money can be converted into time and sold for real money. N3V will tax the sale. The player who leased the mill will contract for logs to feed the mill and the railroad(s), own by other players,will supply the contracted carloads of logs to the mill. The mill will sell carloads of ties through a player run market using a contract. Railroads get game money for moving cars to complete contracts. Everything wears out and needs to be repaired or replaced, this needs to be done to keep the game going.

Lots of luck building this.:udrool:

LOL, someone spends to much time on facebook.

 

[jadebullet]

Well, in N3V's defense, they are a company and they do need money in order to operate. They also aren't a payware only franchise like Railworks, which bends its content creators over even further. That being said though, more capital should include more improvements. It used to be the joke that when the original brew crew left, those remaining didn't know how to work with the Jet engine, which was why there wasn't much in the way of improvements between versions(and why the bells kept ringing on every damn locomotive). It may have just been a joke, but it was made because of the very real fact that much demanded issues were being left unaddressed and we were getting features that "the community has been demanding for years." (Sounds like the same justification for that interlocking tower function that we just got. Sure, there has been desire for a CTC style dispatcher window that could work with driver, but we just got a text box, and there were far more important features needed)

Then we got the announcement for Trainz a New Era. There was talk of a new engine, which we thought was good, seeing as the Jet engine was really showing its age, despite claims of "there still being a lot of capability left in it." Nope, not a new game engine after all, just a new graphics engine. So while the game looks prettier, it still plays fast and loose with physics, and overall has a less than steller driver mode. This was fine when it was the year 2000 and MSTS was the only competition, but its 2016. Railworks, for all of its flaws, has a much better physics engine and it is a shame that N3V just doesn't care enough to bring their game into the new millennium.

Of course, that is if TANE runs in the first place. I am used to a very buggy Trainz release, its par for the course. I am even used to the next version of trainz breaking everything, like when 09 came out(I think it was 09) and they broke all of the alpha trees and the only fix to the vegetation problem was a set of very squidlike speedtrees, an asset that isn't easily created by content creators, and resulted in vegetation, a very important route creation asset, being thrown into the realm of payware. It took until trainz 12 for the community to somewhat solve that issue. (Not N3V, mind you, but the community of content creators figuring out how to make things work, or make good speed trees. Though props to Rob, the N3V content creator, he has regularly stepped up and provided good assets and a lot of his speedtreez are quite good now) In any case, though, TANE was very obviously rushed out the door to meet the kickstarter deadlines. Enginesounds not working properly, crashes, constant EDRs, the new abomination that replaced content manager plus flagging errors that don't exist. It is obvious that SP1 was the version that should have been released, as it fixed quite a bit of issues and added features promised on the box. And now we get a new announcement about a new multiplayer when the current multiplayer is barely used due to issues, rather than a much needed announcement of "we are using the money from TANE and making a new physics engine." I mean, from what I have read, Railworks is even updating their physics engine again after this latest release.

And then we have the community. What happened to this place. It feels like it has become a playground of demanding children who are allowed to badger content creators for content, and demand that stuff be free and on the DLS. We could have had a real nice Erie Camelback Mallet, but we can't punish scummy little scrublords who whine and cry about how it isn't fair that something is freeware.
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...ngus-Type-quot-0-8-8-0-Articulated-Camelbacks
This is a great example of a content creator being attacked by the cretins that are allowed to run free on this forum. There is nothing that gets the creative juices flowing like some scrub telling you that you need to make your locomotive freeware.

And then you have Toni Jellyham's temper tantrum last summer, where, rather than ban a belligerent user who was breaking the CoC quite blatantly, he not only was allowed to stay unbanned and keep posting harassment, but Toni Hillyman actually defended him AND made reference to how much money the guy threw into the kickstarter. It was only when another user pointed out that what the guy was doing wasn't allowed by some law, combined with users deciding that if he could do it, why shouldn't they do it back, that Tauntaun Jedibag decided that proper forum moderation had to happen. So, despite the community being quite large, and there only being about 4-10 people involved, he banned everybody on the forum and gave us a "stern talking to." The international community that doesn't post in the english section? Banned for a breakdown in moderation. Jimmy, the kid who just wanted to show off his route in USA picks? Banned, for 24 hours. Way to go Jimmy, think about what you did. Ryan, the autistic child who was so happy to receive a free copy of TANE for his nice letter? Banned for 24 hours(originally 48). What's wrong with you Ryan? You need a time out. Signed, Tony.

And Tony is the CEO, and also seems to be the PR guy as well, and he is doing a pretty poor job of the PR department. It was bad enough that there was an entirely new forum created just to get away from such a thing.


Also, just a note. I have been getting a bunch of emails from N3V lately promoting SP1. The issue is that they are the dumbest freaking advertisements ever. Why? Because the way it is worded implies that in order to "Upgrade to SP1" it costs money, but don't worry it is on sale! Now, the first advertisement at least had a small note letting you know that existing TANE owners get SP1 for free, but the second one sure didn't. And quite frankly, it is pretty bad when I actually thought that N3V WAS dumb enough to charge money for SP1.

It is also nice to see promotional adverts for TANE promoting the new Deltic cab, which is nice btw, as the difference between TS12 and TANE. It only kind of implies that there is a new Deltic cab, but more heavily implies that an original trainz piece of content represents TS12. (Though, I mean the engine is still the same one from the original trainz, but we will just sweep that under the rug) Oh, and there is nothing like seeing a poll about the "preferred trainz version" that would have Saddam Hussain saying that the results look fishy. Especially considering how derisive a very vocal part of the community is.

So why isn't there a poll up on the forum now for everyone to vote, as opposed to some sort of cherry picked poll?

Edit: Hey, look. Now there is.
http://www.easypolls...4b0f33c4ec6f4d2

 

[Tony_Hilliam]

the content that makes your game function get a chunk of the money from the subscription based on how used their content is?

This is exactly how it works according to the TCCP Agreement (contentcreators.trainzportal.com).

50% of the revenues for any future subscription relating to DLC content goes to the creators.

This will be one of the subscription tiers (and probably the most popular option).

as opposed to some sort of cherry picked poll?

The N3V poll is available for everyone to vote in at:
http://www.trainzportal.com/pages/view/survey-what-do-you-think-of-tane-sp1

 

[Matt3985]

That's correct and I remember voting for that Poll too for TANE. Thanks for clearing that up Tony

 

[NIARTcar]

The N3V poll is available for everyone to vote in at:
http://www.trainzportal.com/pages/view/survey-what-do-you-think-of-tane-sp1

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I voted and have given the link to other content creators and Tane users to give their honest feedback now too.

cheers

 

[jadebullet]

That survey should probably go into a sticky somewhere. Anyway, I have filled it out.

As for the 50% subscription thing, how is that going to work? Say there is a route DLC, how are you going to pay all of the content creators who's content is used?

 

[cascaderailroad]

That's an easy one, I suppose ... creators who freely uploaded their assets to the DLS digitally signed an agreement (which they should have read beforehand) ... which in turn makes all those assets now N3V's property (read the fine print) ... and no one gets paid, except for N3V

 

[n8phu]

....

I am somewhat surprised that someone from the USA, the "home of free speech", would expect that such posts must be removed from the forums. The best thing to do is to ignore them, or rebuke them for their "lack of manners" - I have seen that happen often enough. If they break the CoC then take action.

But lets not change the CoC - that could easily lead to posts being removed for all sorts of trivial reasons.

As a veteran of the US Military Forces (USN Retired) I have helped to defend the right to free speech in a democracy..

But we all know this place is no democracy... only a fool would believe that.

Free speech is a great thing, but with it comes personal responsibility and a measure of tolerance..... when someone behaves like a "ultra gimmie pig" that it becomes detrimental to the community, then action must be taken.

 

[boc61]

I don't know why people think this, or any other online forum is a democracy. It isn't even a public space. It is a private space owned by N3V. They can set whatever rules they want, they can take any action they seem fit. If we don't like it, we are free to go. There is no free speech here. Just as you have the right to dictate the behavior of others in your home, they are free to do so here. Since this forum is tied to a product they are selling and most who come here are customers it would make good sense to treat those customers with respect and even handedness but they are not compelled to do so.

The concept of free speech pertains to government censorship and abrogation of a person's right to voice their opinions in public. You want free speech in an internet forum? Pay to host your own.

 

[martinvk]

That's an easy one, I suppose ... creators who freely uploaded their assets to the DLS digitally signed an agreement (which they should have read beforehand) ... which in turn makes all those assets now N3V's property (read the fine print) ... and no one gets paid, except for N3V

I did. Care to show me where it states that uploaded assets become the property of N3V?

Hint,

The grant of the license in clause 2.1 ("Grant of license") is not and cannot be deemed to be a sale, transfer or any other conveyance of your intellectual property rights held in the New Works.

I suggest you read the License Agreement

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.

I don't know why people think this, or any other online forum is a democracy. It isn't even a public space. It is a private space owned by N3V. They can set whatever rules they want, they can take any action they seem fit. If we don't like it, we are free to go. There is no free speech here. Just as you have the right to dictate the behavior of others in your home, they are free to do so here. Since this forum is tied to a product they are selling and most who come here are customers it would make good sense to treat those customers with respect and even handedness but they are not compelled to do so.

The concept of free speech pertains to government censorship and abrogation of a person's right to voice their opinions in public. You want free speech in an internet forum? Pay to host your own.

With every respect to your above posting boc61, I am afraid I feel you are incorrect when you state that N3V can make any rules they wish within this forum. This forum is based in Australia and therefore has to comply with that country's legislation in regards to harassment and bullying. It is also an international forum and therefore has to comply with Australian legislation in regards to racism and discrimination.

Therefore, N3V cannot impose whatever rules they wish especially if those rules are are in contravention of any of the above legislation. I believe the above was demonstrated comprehensively when the forum was closed last August while the code of conduct was rewritten to bring the forum in line with current Australian legislation. One person was also banned from the forum for a period for his harassment and bullying of others when that matter was brought to the attention of the N3V management along with their legal obligations towards forum members protection.

Bill

 

[boc61]

Of course. I should have added "within the bounds of any applicable laws", even in our homes we are subject to certain laws but that still gives them very wide latitude.

 

[martinvk]

Hi everybody.

With every respect to your above posting boc61, I am afraid I feel you are incorrect when you state that N3V can make any rules they wish within this forum. This forum is based in Australia and therefore has to comply with that country's legislation in regards to harassment and bullying. It is also an international forum and therefore has to comply with Australian legislation in regards to racism and discrimination.

Is this established law or just personal opinion? I've read many people pontificating about various legal rules but so far it all seems to be wishful thinking.

Therefore, N3V cannot impose whatever rules they wish especially if those rules are are in contravention of any of the above legislation. I believe the above was demonstrated comprehensively when the forum was closed last August while the code of conduct was rewritten to bring the forum in line with current Australian legislation. One person was also banned from the forum for a period for his harassment and bullying of others when that matter was brought to the attention of the N3V management along with their legal obligations towards forum members protection.

Bill

That's one interpretation. Others might think otherwise. Only those in on the decision will know for sure.

 

[clam1952]

Therefore, N3V cannot impose whatever rules they wish especially if those rules are are in contravention of any of the above legislation.

Actually they can impose whatever rules they like so long as they do not contravene any applicable Legislation, which gives a pretty wide scope.

 

[ish6]

The N3V poll is available for everyone to vote in at:
http://www.trainzportal.com/pages/view/survey-what-do-you-think-of-tane-sp1

Thanks for the link, sir!

Ish

 

[boc61]

Is this established law or just personal opinion? I've read many people pontificating about various legal rules but so far it all seems to be wishful thinking.

The colloquial term here is "Clubhouse Lawyer" In some circles substitute "Clubhouse" for " Jailhouse".

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Martin in regard to your posting at #93 of this thread with reference to Australian legislation in regards to racism, harassment and bullying, you will find that most democratic nations have similar legislation in regards to those matters. The foregoing is brought about by the United Nations charter of Human Rights in which signatories to the charter are obliged to bring forward their own national legislation which encompasses the human rights set out in the charter.

Obviously as with much that goes on within the United Nations not all countries live up to the obligations that they have signed up to. However, countries such as the United States , Australia, New Zealand and virtually all countries within the European Union do carry out those obligations and therefore the legislation is very similar across a great range of countries.

In regard to the events of last August on this forum obviously only those that changed the forum code of conduct will know precisely why that was brought about. However, the person who was banned from the forum for a period was defended by the N3V management a few days previous when a complaint had been made about his “disparaging remarks” in posting towards other forum members. The foregoing defence was dropped immediately when it was pointed out to the N3V management that the forum members postings could contravene Australian legislation in regards to the harassment, discrimination and racism.

I would agree the foregoing is not conclusive proof of why the code of conduct was changed, but I would suggest that it does mount strong circumstantial evidence

Bill

 

[wholbr]

The colloquial term here is "Clubhouse Lawyer" In some circles substitute "Clubhouse" for " Jailhouse".

Boc61, as it seems to be me you are referring to in the above posting, I will confirm that I am no lawyer but someone who investigates incidents in regards to workplace safety. Therefore many times in my career have come across incidents of harassment and bullying when those actions affect safety in workplaces.

In one incident which I investigated several years ago a person driving a forklift truck killed a work colleague in terrible circumstances due not operating the forklift in accordance with the safety regime laid out by the distribution centre management.

On investigation it transpired that the forklift operator had been subjected to very high levels of harassment and bullying by a group of employees within the workplace which very much contributed to the forklift drivers state of mind when the incident occurred. The person who was killed was not a member of the group which had been carrying out the harassment and bullying which made the incident one of the worst I had ever investigated.

And the reason for all this harassment and bullying of that person, simply on the grounds of his colour and lack of education as some at that time wished to see it.

So yes boc61, I am totally and absolutely against harassment and bullying at any level and always will be, for the above is one incident that has lived with me since that time and I never wish to again see such criminal irresponsibility.

When people practice racism, harassment and bullying they are often through complete ignorance unaware of the effect it may have on those they are carrying out the crime against.

And yes it is a crime
Bill

 

[martinvk]

[...Martin in regard to your posting at #93 of this thread with reference to Australian legislation in regards to racism, harassment and bullying, you will find that most democratic nations have similar legislation in regards to those matters. The foregoing is brought about by the United Nations charter of Human Rights in which signatories to the charter are obliged to bring forward their own national legislation which encompasses the human rights set out in the charter....

I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment but the cynic in me feels this pie-in-the-sky is only observed when it is convenient. And that is on the national level where each country is sovereign. And this from the same UN where notorious freedom loving countries like Saudi Arabia and China are members the Human Rights Commission

 

[boc61]

Boc61, as it seems to be me you are referring to in the above posting, I will confirm that I am no lawyer but someone who investigates incidents in regards to workplace safety. Therefore many times in my career have come across incidents of harassment and bullying when those actions affect safety in workplaces.

I'm sorry , it was not directed at you specifically. It was meant as a generalization.