just to let you know, unless you removed a word, it says "should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
Should the Flag be Taken off UP?
- Thread starter illinoiscentral
- Start date
As a Boy Scout I have had to learn all the laws, rules, regulations, etc associated with our flag. And as part of one of only four organizations in the world who are allowed to retire a flag, I'm truly honored to have participated in my fair share of Flag Retiring ceremonies. But as Gandolf states correctly it would be very difficult to burn an engine. However the flag laws only apply to cloth, synthetic and material flags. If those laws did apply to all forms of flags (drawings, paintings, etc). Then you can't run the trains in the rain. If a train was running after sunset then you'd have to have a light on the flag until sunrise. It would be too damn complicated for UP to keep up with all the laws.
However I still feel that UP should keep the flags, cloth or painting, in the most pristine condition for all that it stands.
Dear god!
If you think the flag on UP engines is bad, do as David said, and search "tattered American flag"
.PereMarquette1225fan
Member
Sheesh
Union Pacific should keep the American flag in good condition, instead of the way I see many of them. Yesterday, I saw one with a so badly faded flag, you could barely reckognize it.
Union Pacific should keep the American flag in good condition, instead of the way I see many of them. Yesterday, I saw one with a so badly faded flag, you could barely reckognize it.
The Union flag is not a royal standard. You'll find the royal standard is a royal standard and bears no resemblance to the Union flag.
At the end of the day, I couldn't care less anyway. It's not my flag regardless.
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oooo splitting hairs, I typed standard instead of flag, big deal, try burning the Union flag as a protest and watch the crown prosecute, and if the crown can prosecute you for that, then the crown has control over its use, albeit an extreme use.
/me checks for any hairs that can be split, nope.
Cheers David
Nope, definitely no hairs. Good job. Hehe.
Actually, I'd quite happily set fire to a union flag and I doubt very much I would have to worry about a prosecution arising from it. I'm fairly certain that foreign protesters in London who burn union flags, don't get prosecuted for it and they do it on TV. I am happy to stand corrected on this though.
Maybe I have a disjointed view on the matter however. Flag burning (and flying) is an extremely contentious issue here where flags are often used to cause offence.
I digress, the union flag isn't really anything to do with prototypes unless one of the UK operators uses it in its livery.
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amigacooke
Well-known member
David you seem to have quite a short memory on this as we discussed this previously. The quote from a Home Office memo is:
Plus from 'A Transport of Delight The LEYTR Blog'
66705 is named 'Golden Jubilee' and carries a Union Jack on its side; it is seen here working a coal train to Drax power station from the North East
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Ok its not illegal to burn the flag, provided it is not done in a provocative manner.
Taken from an answer to a (failed) petition to make flag burning illegal.
http://www.hmg.gov.uk/epetition-responses/petition-view.aspx?epref=TreasonAmend
"In this context you also suggest that it should be an offence to burn the English flag. Although flag burning can be provocative and offensive, it can also be a means of peaceful protest. Flag burning which is intended to incite violence could be dealt with under the provisions referred to above, depending on the nature of the incident. We do not therefore think there is a case for changing the law to cover flag burning specifically."
So if you burn the flag be really quiet and peaceful even then make sure you can prove you own the flag or you could be done for arson,
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t608303/
Cheers David
Taken from an answer to a (failed) petition to make flag burning illegal.
http://www.hmg.gov.uk/epetition-responses/petition-view.aspx?epref=TreasonAmend
"In this context you also suggest that it should be an offence to burn the English flag. Although flag burning can be provocative and offensive, it can also be a means of peaceful protest. Flag burning which is intended to incite violence could be dealt with under the provisions referred to above, depending on the nature of the incident. We do not therefore think there is a case for changing the law to cover flag burning specifically."
So if you burn the flag be really quiet and peaceful
even then make sure you can prove you own the flag or you could be done for arson,http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t608303/
Cheers David
66705 is named 'Golden Jubilee' and carries a Union Jack on its side; it is seen here working a coal train to Drax power station from the North East
There you go. I happily stand corrected.
So a flag paintded on a railway engine is a bit worn - so what it is out in all weathers. Some US folk feel if a flag isn't everywhere except in the lavatory there is some definitive disrespect. That smacks of patriotism becoming overkill and sycophantic.It is only a railway engine! We don't go overboard with our flag here in GB but doesn't make us less a citizen or our tradition less important. I see old regimental colours (flags to the un-iniaited) that have been laid up in cathedrals and churches here. Often faded and in a poor way over time but still important. The thread starter reads too much into this American passion for flags, That you even need to have them on railway trains? Is this some kind of fetish or overboard reaction?!
Here we go again...
Since you thought your opinion was SO important to bump the thread, allow me to pick your mind.
Um...not really? Maybe in North Korea or in the former USSR, but not here. Sure, some folks like to wave their flags around, but I wouldn't call it excessive.
As individuals, it is not recommended to wave a tattered, worn-out flag, but do people do it? Of course. I think the situation here is the flag is being presented by a corporation that has control of half of all trackage in the US which many people see traveling by daily; as a carrier running a dirty flag, it looks as if you can't take the time to clean a symbol of American freedom and prosperity and, therefore, you cannot be trusted to maintain other equipment.
Not all Americans are beer-bellied, shotgun-wielding, redneck patriots, so I think the passion for flags you claim Americans have is irrelevant in that regard. And no, this is not fulfilling a fetish; this is just UP's display of how they are creating a pro-American image and their loyalty as America's biggest railroad.
Fin.
-Carfreak4
Since you thought your opinion was SO important to bump the thread, allow me to pick your mind.
Um...not really? Maybe in North Korea or in the former USSR, but not here. Sure, some folks like to wave their flags around, but I wouldn't call it excessive.
As individuals, it is not recommended to wave a tattered, worn-out flag, but do people do it? Of course. I think the situation here is the flag is being presented by a corporation that has control of half of all trackage in the US which many people see traveling by daily; as a carrier running a dirty flag, it looks as if you can't take the time to clean a symbol of American freedom and prosperity and, therefore, you cannot be trusted to maintain other equipment.
Not all Americans are beer-bellied, shotgun-wielding, redneck patriots, so I think the passion for flags you claim Americans have is irrelevant in that regard. And no, this is not fulfilling a fetish; this is just UP's display of how they are creating a pro-American image and their loyalty as America's biggest railroad.
Fin.
-Carfreak4
I feel that it is right that U.P. flies the proud American flag because it was started by the U.S. government in 1862 by the Pacific Railroad Act, signed by Honest Abe.
EDIT: Whoops! didn't read too muck into this thread, didn't realize it was bumped. Don't mind this post then!
EDIT: Whoops! didn't read too muck into this thread, didn't realize it was bumped. Don't mind this post then!
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Bumping old threads is like recycling, theres nothing wrong with bringing them up if they are within a year. Its not worth getting worked up about.
With regards to the topic, I feel I am in a position to speak on this idea of flag maitenance. I live off of UP's Oakland Subdivision at the base of the Altamont Pass and I am very familar with the conditions of the flags in question. Some are in quite horrid condition due to both weathering and vandalism.
However, it is my opinion that this idea of disrespect may demonstrate an overly sentimental,nationalistic, or patriotic approach to this situation. Yes it is a symbol of who we are and where we have been, but there is a point that we must disconnect ourselves from becoming too attached to this. Balance is key in that we must have a heathy respect for the symbol as opposed to being overly sentimental as well as failing to recognize the flag at all. Balance of emotions and realities are key in a healthy effective individual and I am sure that many Americans desire to aspire to such a status. My point being at the end of the day, there is a time and a place for concern over issues such as this. At this point, I would say that UP should leave the flags on, though they may be tattered and worn, it shows just how far we have come and what we have been through. Any harsh feelings for neglect will be placed upon the company's image rather than the United States.
Just my opinion,
cheers:wave:
With regards to the topic, I feel I am in a position to speak on this idea of flag maitenance. I live off of UP's Oakland Subdivision at the base of the Altamont Pass and I am very familar with the conditions of the flags in question. Some are in quite horrid condition due to both weathering and vandalism.
However, it is my opinion that this idea of disrespect may demonstrate an overly sentimental,nationalistic, or patriotic approach to this situation. Yes it is a symbol of who we are and where we have been, but there is a point that we must disconnect ourselves from becoming too attached to this. Balance is key in that we must have a heathy respect for the symbol as opposed to being overly sentimental as well as failing to recognize the flag at all. Balance of emotions and realities are key in a healthy effective individual and I am sure that many Americans desire to aspire to such a status. My point being at the end of the day, there is a time and a place for concern over issues such as this. At this point, I would say that UP should leave the flags on, though they may be tattered and worn, it shows just how far we have come and what we have been through. Any harsh feelings for neglect will be placed upon the company's image rather than the United States.
Just my opinion,
cheers:wave:
UP lead the charge in enforcing copywrite laws in use of their equipment for modeling purpose. Their logo is the American flag which has laws on how it can and will be displayed.
Their concern in the copywrite money grab is how they are portrayed. You have to get their permission to use their logo, the American Flag, and pay them royalties to not show them in a bad light.
Charge a modeler licensing fees, along with the other Class 1s for their image? That image is the National Standard. I find it weak they will use that image in their corporate scheme and the charge modelers a fee for it's use. All not to be shown in a bad light and protect that image.
Fly it proud and correct, or stop using it and profiting from it for corporate gain. Simple as that.
Their concern in the copywrite money grab is how they are portrayed. You have to get their permission to use their logo, the American Flag, and pay them royalties to not show them in a bad light.
Charge a modeler licensing fees, along with the other Class 1s for their image? That image is the National Standard. I find it weak they will use that image in their corporate scheme and the charge modelers a fee for it's use. All not to be shown in a bad light and protect that image.
Fly it proud and correct, or stop using it and profiting from it for corporate gain. Simple as that.
The modeling and logo-ing copyright always angered me. I have yet to seen any justified answer to the purpose of begining such a campeign other than to create a small new income revenue..... I've seen alot of heat flung at UP over the years (ie: heritage killers, ugly duckling) but the corporate decision to pursue such a policy is the main problem I have with their conduct.
Now off to my little bubble of happiness where everthing is happy and there are no problems with the world...
cheers:wave:
Now off to my little bubble of happiness where everthing is happy and there are no problems with the world...
cheers:wave: