Disappointed NV3

Somehow I signed up for an annual membership I didn't lnow i even had. I never used it. A few days ago I was charged $64.90 and was told it was for my annual automatically renewing membership. Wow. When I asked if I could cancel and get a refund they said no refunds.

Very disappointed. Not a great way to treat their customer base. Anyone else have this happen to them?

You signed up to a subscription and are angry at the fact that the subscription was renewed?

H222 said:

You signed up to a subscription and are angry at the fact that the subscription was renewed?

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He may very well not have been aware this was the case, how would YOU feel if happened to you if you were not aware it would automatically renew ?
Membership renewals should NOT be automatic, you should receive a reminder a month before it expires and then another a few days before, I've observed that's many companies have this sort of sneaky device, it usually a very small automatically ticked button secreted somewhere obscure on the page, i had a similar thing happen with Avast, I never knowingly take out automatic renewals, but it looks like i missed it when i signed up, additionally tho, they renewed my membership only a month or two after I'd taken out a subscription for the same software !!!!, unlike nv3 they refunded me, given its the start of your renewal they should refund the OP the renewal fee, minus whatever hes used since the renewal.

dangavel said:

He may very well not have been aware this was the case, how would YOU feel if happened to you if you were not aware it would automatically renew ?
Membership renewals should NOT be automatic, you should receive a reminder a month before it expires and then another a few days before, I've observed that's many companies have this sort of sneaky device, it usually a very small automatically ticked button secreted somewhere obscure on the page, i had a similar thing happen with Avast, I never knowingly take out automatic renewals, but it looks like i missed it when i signed up, additionally tho, they renewed my membership only a month or two after I'd taken out a subscription for the same software !!!!, unlike nv3 they refunded me, given its the start of your renewal they should refund the OP the renewal fee, minus whatever hes used since the renewal.

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How would I feel if I made a mistake and had to pay for that mistake? I'd probably shrug. Do people not consider the consequence for their own actions anymore? You don't read before you buy? It's blindingly obvious that Trainz+ is a subscription and as much as I feel for somebody who forgot to cancel, N3V would have no obligation to cancel a subscription you signed up for

cmon you gotta admit that being smart enough to read the fine print is like rule number one of the internet

Given the timing, I'm going to assume the OP signed up for the deal that was offered in December 2021 - January 2022 for users that signed up for a Trainz Plus subscription would receive the full retail version of TRS22 and a annual first class ticket as well as the Trainz Plus subscription. Perhaps the belief was that one was only buying TRS22 but the sign up page was pretty clear that you were buying a Trainz Plus subscription and did display the fact that the membership would automatically renew.

I'm not really seeing how N3V did anything improper.

dangavel said:

He may very well not have been aware this was the case, how would YOU feel if happened to you if you were not aware it would automatically renew ?
Membership renewals should NOT be automatic, you should receive a reminder a month before it expires and then another a few days before, I've observed that's many companies have this sort of sneaky device, it usually a very small automatically ticked button secreted somewhere obscure on the page, i had a similar thing happen with Avast, I never knowingly take out automatic renewals, but it looks like i missed it when i signed up, additionally tho, they renewed my membership only a month or two after I'd taken out a subscription for the same software !!!!, unlike nv3 they refunded me, given its the start of your renewal they should refund the OP the renewal fee, minus whatever hes used since the renewal.

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100% agree i now have a sheet of all my accounts with dates for auto renew. My trainz is due in feb on the fence if i'am going to keep it. I try to support nv3 as much as i can.

While I agree "if you signed up, you signed up"

I also agree that its common courtesy / smart public relations to snap off an email to a customer before the renewal is charged.

I have several things on automatic payment or renewal and they all send me a "heads up" email in advance.

It:

* Manages customer expectations.
* Avoids negative "press".
* Avoids complications with out of date CC info and or charge backs (or at least the attempt).
* Avoids a company appearing predatory.

H222 said:

How would I feel if I made a mistake and had to pay for that mistake? I'd probably shrug. Do people not consider the consequence for their own actions anymore? You don't read before you buy? It's blindingly obvious that Trainz+ is a subscription and as much as I feel for somebody who forgot to cancel, N3V would have no obligation to cancel a subscription you signed up for

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Automatic renewal of subscriptions is a contemptible practice , what other reason would any company have to not send you an automatic courtesy email to remind you your sub is due other than they are hoping you'll forget that this is the case and they can make more money ? I very much doubt that this guy will buy another NV3 sub, I certainly would not if they treated me a shabbily as they have this gentleman.

Its easy to forget that a subscription is due if you aren't reminded that they are coming up . If you forget they are due and you don't want to renew, in this case its quite a lot of money to pay for something you don't want to use, for many trainz users who are on pension $64 is a large sum.

You may be happy that companies do this all the time and disrespect customers, companies will factor in that there are always some people who think businesses are above criticism and side with them no matter how bad their customer service actually is ,which may well be why so many companies indulge in such practices and hold the customers in contempt....

but I very much doubt if most people are as sanguine as you are over such dodgy practices .

Though there is not a legal requirement for N3V to refund monies from subscriptions (auto payments are hideous and quite immoral in my opinion), perhaps the company could make a goodwill gesture and come to some negotiated settlement. Perhaps a discount or maybe a half way split. Something, anything. Being a compassionate corporate entity does bring future rewards. I do hope you are successful in your efforts bmheron. Maybe a communication to the help desk, to explain your situation, may bring fruitful arrangements that would be mutually beneficial to all concerned.

You're right in that somewhere in the agreement it mentioned auto renewal. I'm not disputing that at all. But I thought that outdated practice Ala gym memberships, cell phones, cable companies that seemed like mentioned above where they were hoping you didn't notice.

Regardless I'm not disappointed in the auto renewal. Rather it's two aspects: first as mentioned it's common courtesy to give a reminder email as the term nears. Only reason Not to is hoping the customer doesn't remember. Second and more importantly is a company should always offer prorated refunds upon canceling at any time. They're not losing anything if they refund the rest of the term. Again the only reason to do this I can see is to sneak a whole extra years payment ($64.99) out of a customer.

Now I don't know if these are NV3s intentions as I only dealt with customer support. Maybe it's just innocent outdated policies.

Does anyone know how to contact management to learn more? Based on my experiences with NV3 prior to this I would think they aren't out to take money from customers this way.

You'll have to go through the helpdesk for this.

I do agree that a courtesy email would be more than welcome. Prior to this year's renewal, I wanted to change the payment setup so the money didn't come out of my bank account directly and instead used PayPal credit. Unfortunately, with many things occurring at the same time including my father being in the hospital, I forgot to update the payment method in time. If I had received an email saying that a renewal was coming up soon(tm), maybe a couple of weeks ahead, I could have made the changes and redirected where the money was going to come from. As it is, I got hit with this charge a long with a hefty additional escrow payment I needed to make to my mortgage company.

Honestly, I don't think that N3V is doing this nefariously and this is how they setup the payment process. Maybe someone from N3V, meaning Tony, and act upon this to update the renewal process.

Nothing in Fine Print is ever good news.

The best time to cancel an auto renew of a subscription is straight after you have paid the previous one while it is still fresh in your mind. The N3V auto renew terms are plainly visible and there is nothing in Australian Consumer Law to prevent N3V from offering it. Just put it down to experience and maybe a lesson learnt. Besides that the subscription is good value for what it provides.

The starting page of MyTrainz (button at the top of the forum) shows your membership status, including the date of the next renewal.

Peter

i don't subscribe and never will, as I don't agree with the concept, but i had a look on the product page and after running through about three or four pages of info i found no mention that people with annual subs will not get a reminder that the sub will be renewed, I can fully understand that monthly subs wont get notifications as it would be impractical but I think this info needs amending so people are aware that they will NOT be receiving reminders when yearly subs are due.

• If you choose the monthly option, your membership runs for a full month, so if you join on the 25th of the month, you will be billed on the 25th of next month.
• If you choose the annual option, your membership runs for a full year, so if you join on the 25th of August, you will be billed on the 25th of next August.

dangavel said:

Automatic renewal of subscriptions is a contemptible practice

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My man, I literally do not want to have to go in and renew my SUBSCRIPTION every month or year. That's why I signed up for a SUBSCRIPTION. If I wanted to buy something yearly, I'd buy something yearly.

What you're describing is a monthly purchase - not a membership or a subscription.

Your opinions on subscription services are irrelevant. I do not care if you agree with the practice or not. To call me sanguine because I know what a subscription is and you don't know what a subscription is? Laughable.

H222 said:

My man, I literally do not want to have to go in and renew my SUBSCRIPTION every month or year. That's why I signed up for a SUBSCRIPTION. If I wanted to buy something yearly, I'd buy something yearly.

What you're describing is a monthly purchase - not a membership or a subscription.

Your opinions on subscription services are irrelevant. I do not care if you agree with the practice or not. To call me sanguine because I know what a subscription is and you don't know what a subscription is? Laughable.

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Many people have complained about the complexities of NV3s subscriptions and purchasing , it takes quite some time to work out their various nuances , and it appears that the op got caught up in that mire, and it appears I also got the wrong end of the stick when browsing through this last night , but my point was , I could not find anything that informs users that they will NOT get a reminder when a yearly sub is due, despite spending wuite some time looking on my trainz, can you point out to me where on the site this information is , as it took me about 10 mins trawling through the various options to find the text I cut and pasted.

Why does my attitude towards subscriptions matter to you ?
I called you sanguine because you dismissed the concerns of the op who just lost $64 , which is not an inconsiderable sum, and because you seem to think that sending a reminder that a yearly subscription is coming up is a unreasonable requirement for a company to undertake, if you differ, fine, but just because you differ doesn't mean you are correct , it's simply your opinion
.Btw I just stated that it's not feasible to remind people regarding a monthly subscription , but why is a once a year reminder such a problem for you ? Its simply an automated process that costs NV3 nothing .

btw if my opinions are irrelevant, then so are yours , and btw I am FULLY aware of what a subscription is, it's designed to make companies more money and I can see why a small outfit like NV3 would adopt the practice, but over time , it costs consumers far more in the long run, I have adobe creative suite 5.5 which I purchased, I've had it for over a decade , I've saved many hundreds if not thousands of bucks having that purchased program over the subscription version and it's fine by me , I do NOT need the bells and whistles that adobe had added over the years, just as I don't need any of the features added to the last trainz version .

if NV3 won't remind people that their yearly subs are coming up , then they will probably continue to have disgruntled customers ...and that , my friend is not good for their business or for the rest of us.

I've purchased 2022 even though I don't use it in order to support NV3 , but I don't support their actions in this case, or their failure to send a simple reminder once a year to tell people their sub is coming up and to give them simple heads up if they wish to cease their sub. Just why you think this is unreasonable is not something I can fathom, but then human nature never fails to amaze me ......

Agree with you 100% dangavel. ( new one there.) The OP should have received a reminder. Full stop.morally reprehensible that he did not. Not good business practise. N3V.

I have a couple of questions.

1- Is renewal opt in or opt out?
2- Are reminders for renewal sent to subscribers who opted out?