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Thread: "Run Around" Problem

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down "Run Around" Problem

    Route is the payware Hinton route. At Hinton yards. Put 3 box cars in the a yard. Attach an engine. Create a single instruction (Run Around) rule. Run the session. Engine decouples and pulls away. However it stops at the first switch and never moves thereafter. Tried different cars and engines same thing. Same in the adjacent Hinton yard (2 yards there). Added a section of land and made a simple main and siding with a train and the run around worked ok. Tried using the trouble-shooter reporting process but it takes me in circles. Don't know what Tony paid for that but even free was too much.

    That was 45 minutes wasted.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.3ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 4gb video card

  2. #2
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    Don't use AI

    Drive manually
    My 4325 car RGCX train is 53.24 miles long, and takes 1 hour to pass through town !

  3. #3
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    I like the runaround command because it sets the junctions. I usually drive manual because the AI drives so slowly. I don't know about any run around rule.
    I7-8700K
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  4. #4
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    I always found that AI runs way too rapidly up on a parked consist at 35 mph, much too fast, speeding excessively, and violently crash's into a stopped draft of railcars. Which is not the railroad standard rule of safe coupling operations, which states: The loco must stop 20 feet short of coupling, the conductor must dismount the loco, open the couplers, align the couplers, and watch and supervise the 1 mph coupling speed of the 2 coupler mechanisms, to ensure solid coupling has been achieved, with no broken coupler and draftgear hardware parts has incurred.

    AI is just a totally flawwed means of driving !
    Last edited by MP242; September 24th, 2019 at 05:28 PM.
    My 4325 car RGCX train is 53.24 miles long, and takes 1 hour to pass through town !

  5. #5
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    Hi,
    The "run around train" command usually works, but it appears to look ahead for a couple of junctions (in the direction of travel).
    If it can't see that far, it will simply halt.
    I've had locos head off to the far end of the layout before coming back...

    The AI doesn't like direction marks either. Manually this isn't a problem, but the AI won't drive against them.

    Alternative commands can be used :- decouple or decouples, and the corresponding couple/couples. These tend to be more reliable.
    If you need to run around, add trackbacks, then decouple, navigate to track mark, couple.

    Colin

  6. #6
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    I just use couple to: now and it works 100% for me...runaround train was always hit and miss...
    Dave =)

  7. #7
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    Factors such as the distance between switches and the distance to end-of-track buffers (if any) and red signals can play havoc with the Run Around command (there is no Run Around Rule that I know of). The Run Around command will work well and reliably well if the loco has a clear path through any switches and signals but those distances, as mentioned, must be "generous".

    I agree that driving manually is far less stressful than using the AI in many instances. My often quoted response to AI problems in these forums is that the "I" in AI does not stand for Intelligence.
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 (RC beta) 105476

  8. #8
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    Reducing the trigger radius on points (switches) and track marks, makes it a lot easier to run round.
    Malc


  9. #9
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    The couple after decouple seemed the easiest to try. Well that did not work at all.The decouple does not take place.. So I put a track mark in front of the engine but several hundred feet away. The engine decoupled went to the track mark and the next command told it to couple to the back of the consist. Well it left the track mark at 2mph and SLOWLY crept up to the switch at the end of that track. Here it stopped! I put in a 5 second delay after the trackmark to give the overworked AI time to reconcile its next move. No, that changed nothing.

    Frankly, I am tired of finding, analyzing, doing work-arounds, etc. for the vendor. I did not spend $100 to debug commercial software. I used to do that (for $$$$) but it was my code. Too often when an AI related issue is brought up other customers also relate similar experiences which is very disheartening. The usual recommendation is to drive a train. I just can't do that. It would bore me to death - literally. As someone, in another post noted, mile after mile of the exact same trees is not very exciting.

    Is AI broken? Only YES if you want to do something that it cannot do. There is much it can do without issues but, woefully there are definitely bugs in it. For now, I will avoid AI processes that require a "runaround". Or if I do encounter a need, then I will take the decoupled engine through some normal steps running between trackmarks and finally try to couple to back of the consist. 50% chance of some success.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.3ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 4gb video card

  10. #10
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    Post Deleted
    Last edited by MP242; October 22nd, 2019 at 03:05 AM.
    My 4325 car RGCX train is 53.24 miles long, and takes 1 hour to pass through town !

  11. #11
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    A big part of the issue is the signalling logic in conjunction with the AI logic. Tony mentioned somewhere sometime ago that this area will be addressed at some point, but it'll take a long time due to the amount of work needed to recreate this aspect of the program. Once recreated, if you think about it, this may work great for new routes and sessions, but all of our driver commands, and scripts will need to be revamped unless a compatibility layer can be put in there as well. The problem is that compatibility layer may then cause the same problems we have now until those commands are upgraded if that ever happens.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 105100

  12. #12
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    The DECOUPLE COMMAND I found doesnt work well and my solution was as I forgot to state to manually uncouple the apply the COUPLE COMMAND...
    Sorry for the misguided advice...
    Dave =)

  13. #13
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    Perhaps I should note my overall objective. It is to create a railroad that I could never make with my Lionel Trains as a child. This means that I turn on the transformer move the handles forward and watch the show. Fortunately it can be much more complex and interesting with TS19. Also, a new scenario does not mean re-laying "O" gauge track. However, it means that AI has had most bugs removed. Right now, TS19 is very fluid. My personal efforts are constantly finding considerable time spent trying to fix problems with the toolbox. Instead it would be nice to setup scenarios (sessions) that come close to my naive view of railroads. Watch how they operate and be able to insert plausible events and design changes to accommodate them. Get bored and try to adjust to another situation, one that might be reasonable for a real railroad to encounter. So if a bridge is closed or a special customer shipping order arrives, it would be fun to design an accommodation. Troubleshooting a game vendor's software is far from that goal.

    PS: the competitor is very far from that capability.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.3ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 4gb video card

  14. #14
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    I have also found "Run Around" to be unreliable. Sometime it works, sometimes the driver will run 20 kms up the line before recoupling. And sometimes they will just point blank refuse to recouple. Where "Run Around" does not work I have been able to obtain a successful outcome by using "Uncouplez" and "Couple" in conjunction with appropriately placed trackmarks and "Navigate to Trackmark" commands. A key to success seems to be copious use of signals (I use a lot of "Signal Invisible"). All sides of a turnout need a facing signal. I set the trigger radius to 2metres. I also place an additional "Signal Invisible" in front of any end-buffers.

    I liked the way you expressed your overall objective. It is much the same as mine. My real world railway knowledge is (sometimes embarrassingly) lacking. But I love to watch the trains running in a world I have created.
    Last edited by FootplatePhil; September 25th, 2019 at 03:54 PM.
    Phil
    'WeddinNSW V4' for TRS2019 and 'WeddinNSW - Young Extension' now on the DLS.

  15. #15
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    The signals my indeed be the key. Perhaps the command has some hard coded need to see a signal instead of the state of the switch. The Hinton route has few signals and none inside the yards. This is why some people have had some success, as have I on different routes. Great hint!
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.3ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 4gb video card

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