UnumProvident155
SP 4449 fan
http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/3742273...collides-with-freight-train-in-south-carolina
This is the 2nd derailment in less than a week
This is the 2nd derailment in less than a week
Amtrak train collides with CSX freight train in South Carolina
- Thread starter UnumProvident155
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Uh....I'd like to know where that second derailment happened. There was an accident where a train hit a truck, but no derailment.
UnumProvident155
SP 4449 fan
the article was updated at 1 pm EST
amrail2000
GONE AND FORGOTTEN
The accident between Amtrak PO91 and CSX Y101-03 took place in Dixiana, South Carolina. I know this exact location as I have there more than 100 times. I've worked it, patrolled it, later in life I documented it using both and video. CSX Y101-03 had finished working the auto ramp Dixiana and the crew had tied their power down. Now for some reason the switch was never lined back for the main. There is no signal to give south bound trains any indication as to how the diverging switch is alligned. Amtrak PO91 had just left Columbia minutes before and the switch is on a curve and at 3:05am there was no way for my friends to know that the switch was lined against them. This is a very sad day for all of us at the Cayce Terminal and Amtrak. We lost two of our own today. I never worked with this crew first hand, but I know that they were well expeirenced. As for the crew of Y101-03, let's let the NTSB and CSX sort this out. I can say that we had an awesome responce from the Lexington County Sheriffs Office, Columbia Police Dept, Cayce Police Dept, SC Emergencey Management Division, Cayce Fire Dept, West Columbia Fire Dept, Columbia Metro Airport Fire Dept, and Columbia Fire Dept. Further, the Lexington County Hospital and Palmetto Health Richland did an awesome getting things set up to receive passengers. I'll never forget the friends I have lost today and it has been long day talking with their families. So please, lets show respect for those involved.
Thanks from all of us on the CSX Columbia Sub
Thanks from all of us on the CSX Columbia Sub
Christopher824
CDETrainz.com
Praying that the Lord will give the families and friends of those involved strength during this difficult time.
UnumProvident155
SP 4449 fan
I heard about that train wreck this morning
cascaderailroad
New member
This one sounds like an outright criminal matter, of pure negligence, on the behavior of CSX crew, leaving a train, leaving the diverging turnout locked, leaving it lined toward the freight which was standing on the siding ... I have never heard of such disregard for safety ... Someone's going to prison for the 2 deaths
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I looked at this wreck site via Google Earth and saw north facing signals on the main just N of I-26, about 2800ft or so north from the wreck site (at the next siding north of the accident site). So, I was wondering if these signals are out of service and this track is now "dark territory" operated via track warrants from a CSX dispatcher? That makes me wonder if the NB (it was reported to have been a NB freight) CSX freight also had a track warrant that they would have released back to the dispatcher when they left their train and why they would have even used the north siding switch (unless they backed into the siding from the north or the news reports were in error about the trains direction of travel). Normally, part of a release includes the direction of the switches.
cascaderailroad
New member
CSX (Can'tStopCrashing) and Slamtrak are an utter embarrassment to this Country ... Are they drunk ... or just plain idiots, playing at running Trainz ?
At least that would provide a logical reason why such ineptness in the transportation industry would be happening
At least that would provide a logical reason why such ineptness in the transportation industry would be happening
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I believe that on this occasion Cascaderailroad is correct in regard to the ineptitude being demonstrated in the operation of the US railroads in his posting at #13 of this thread
It would appear that the time may well have arrived when Amtrak (or those enquiring into the operations of the carrier) will have to consider if systemic failure is the overriding cause of the repeated safety incidents within the organisation, as serious as that prospect may be.
In the above, it may well be that not all the incidents which have occurred are directly attributable to failures within Amtrak itself, but rather the overall infrastructure that it's rail services are operating within.
Prior to the accident in Carolina (4th February) the two most recent incidents now under investigation may conclude that a single personal failure or single infrastructure failure gave cause to the accidents. A conclusion of that type could be viewed as at best a random occurrence and at worst a single systematic failure. In either of those conclusions an upgrade to training or ongoing staff assessment would be seen as reducing similar incident risk in the future, likewise, individual infrastructure upgrades would have a similar effect.
However, with the Carolina incident of the 4th February it would appear that no such single conclusions can be drawn. If early reports are reliable, then a switch was left open to a loop off the main line which again could be viewed as a single personal or infrastructure failure. That failure was then seriously compounded by the train not being brought to a halt on approaching the open switch.
In the above, single isolated incidents will always occur in industrial safety, but there must always be in place wherever possible resilience in secondary systems to prevent an accident occurring. In this incident that secondary system should have been within the signalling system and by direct communication with the train crew. Whether either of the above did take place and a failure then occurred within the train crew by way of it's reaction, we can only wait to find by way of the accident investigation.
However, the combination of the two above safety failures can only give rise to the very serious consideration that major systemic failure resides within the overall infrastructure that Amtrak operations are being carried out on.
Bill
It would appear that the time may well have arrived when Amtrak (or those enquiring into the operations of the carrier) will have to consider if systemic failure is the overriding cause of the repeated safety incidents within the organisation, as serious as that prospect may be.
In the above, it may well be that not all the incidents which have occurred are directly attributable to failures within Amtrak itself, but rather the overall infrastructure that it's rail services are operating within.
Prior to the accident in Carolina (4th February) the two most recent incidents now under investigation may conclude that a single personal failure or single infrastructure failure gave cause to the accidents. A conclusion of that type could be viewed as at best a random occurrence and at worst a single systematic failure. In either of those conclusions an upgrade to training or ongoing staff assessment would be seen as reducing similar incident risk in the future, likewise, individual infrastructure upgrades would have a similar effect.
However, with the Carolina incident of the 4th February it would appear that no such single conclusions can be drawn. If early reports are reliable, then a switch was left open to a loop off the main line which again could be viewed as a single personal or infrastructure failure. That failure was then seriously compounded by the train not being brought to a halt on approaching the open switch.
In the above, single isolated incidents will always occur in industrial safety, but there must always be in place wherever possible resilience in secondary systems to prevent an accident occurring. In this incident that secondary system should have been within the signalling system and by direct communication with the train crew. Whether either of the above did take place and a failure then occurred within the train crew by way of it's reaction, we can only wait to find by way of the accident investigation.
However, the combination of the two above safety failures can only give rise to the very serious consideration that major systemic failure resides within the overall infrastructure that Amtrak operations are being carried out on.
Bill
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amrail2000
GONE AND FORGOTTEN
here are the verified facts regarding the wreck of Amtrak PO91 South Bound and the Idle North bound CSX Train.
Signals were down and all movement was being under EC1 (train order) authority
Switch was lined and locked for the passing track
Conductor neglected to line the switch for the main after releasing his authority for the main
Florence Dispatcher had no knowledge of switch position due to signals being down for replacement
So in the end, the facts will speak for themselves but it does appear that conductor whom I will not name will be looking at prison time.
Signals were down and all movement was being under EC1 (train order) authority
Switch was lined and locked for the passing track
Conductor neglected to line the switch for the main after releasing his authority for the main
Florence Dispatcher had no knowledge of switch position due to signals being down for replacement
So in the end, the facts will speak for themselves but it does appear that conductor whom I will not name will be looking at prison time.
Signals down for replacement.
One person sets the switch with no secondary check.
Dispatcher has no ongoing knowledge of switch setting.
57mph speed limit still operative in area of maintenance with no signal.
Sadly, all the above can equal nothing else but major systemic failure due to a safety infrastructure unfit for purpose.
Bill
One person sets the switch with no secondary check.
Dispatcher has no ongoing knowledge of switch setting.
57mph speed limit still operative in area of maintenance with no signal.
Sadly, all the above can equal nothing else but major systemic failure due to a safety infrastructure unfit for purpose.
Bill
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Is it really our place to comment, give opinion, even pass judgement on such tragedies that take place in other parts of the world other than our own - unless we're all experts on worldwide incidents such as this we should remain silent in respect of those that suffered!
Indeed, I really don't understand why such postings of tragedy should be on what is essentially a game forum!
Rob.
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jeffmorris
Active member
Do manual track switches have some way of telling engineers the position of track switch? Something like the green/red arrows in Trainz.
cascaderailroad
New member
No ... PositiveTrainControl was to be installed shortly, and this is why signaling was disabled ... At 57 mph the train would have slid all the way into the stationary freight locos ... even if there had been big fat fuzzy Trainz Red/Green switch arrows
Switch machines may, or may not, have had small reflective metal flags, that can be seen only when it was too late to stop
Had the signal system been operational, it may have shown the dispatcher that a track was misaligned
Switch machines may, or may not, have had small reflective metal flags, that can be seen only when it was too late to stop
Had the signal system been operational, it may have shown the dispatcher that a track was misaligned
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norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
Rob is correct here. You dont know the first thing about what is going on with the railroad. When you think of the US railroads in the same way the UK operates you are simply wrong. There is a lot more area here, a lot more rail network, and a lot bigger trains. This isn't the first time you have shown up to a thread and applied your "knowledge" to form an opinion without knowing the slightest thing about or completely ignoring the circumstances. A mistake was made and people died for it. Have some respect for them instead of spouting off about "systemic failure" when you know nothing.
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