Signals "Calling on" an AI

P

parryjc

New member
How I can make an AI respond to a calling on signal? Anyone have a clue please?

I have seen in British Rail GWR 1960's operations these signals at work. Train is brought to a halt in front of a red semaphore signal.. On the post placed under the normal stop signal a small arm approximately half the length of the standard arm is present. When this is dropped the train may then continue at a snails pace to the rear of the blockage.
At a railway station, I have seen one train waiting to board passengers, this has been approached under a calling on signal to within 2-3 meters 6-10 feet by a following passenger train, which can then also board its passengers.
  • How do I emulate that in Trainz with an AI? And
  • Where can I find a semaphore signal, as described.

Have not been able to find anything on DLS..............
 
I have created something like this but it cant be done with a normal passenger station with a load command.. I use 3 AJS invisible stations, one in the middle of the platform and one each side splitting the platform into 3 equal lengths. The middle one Platform 1 will take most long trains while platform 1A and 1B will take shorter trains. in the middle (at platform 1 stop) I place two invisible signals back to back. This allows a train to be on platform 1A while a second train can enter platform 1B, both trains can use the load command as they are separate platforms. I use this for trains entering from each end of the platform at the same time. I think the sig (W) range of semaphores have such a signal.
 
stagecoach said:
I have created something like this but it cant be done with a normal passenger station with a load command.. I use 3 AJS invisible stations, one in the middle of the platform and one each side splitting the platform into 3 equal lengths. The middle one Platform 1 will take most long trains while platform 1A and 1B will take shorter trains. in the middle (at platform 1 stop) I place two invisible signals back to back. This allows a train to be on platform 1A while a second train can enter platform 1B, both trains can use the load command as they are separate platforms. I use this for trains entering from each end of the platform at the same time. I think the sig (W) range of semaphores have such a signal.
Click to expand...

Hi Stagecoach,
Thanks for the reply. I am using AJS invisibles, and have two installed on each through platform, thus dividing the platforms into two separate entities. Although all platforms of the station are grouped under one station name.
I have tried with the invisible signal between the two platform stops but AI will not pull right up to it. Depending on the locomotive it comes to a stop anywhere up to 30 meters short, because the lead train is still within the overlap distance, and thus effectively prevents the next locomotive from pulling up to the signal.
It never occurred to me to place two signals back to back.
I will check out the "w" range of semaphore signals ASAP.
I will let you know the outcome just as soon as I can fix my ageing PC which now refuses to accept my portable memory device with all my Trainz content on it.
Kind regards.
John P.
 
Kennilworth said:
Hi parryjc

I posted another way of getting round this on the other thread where you asked a similar question https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?142825-One-consist-following-another

Regards

Brian
Click to expand...
Hi Brian,
Yes indeed and thank you. I reposted this similar question as I felt it was not in line with the original posters thread.

Your solution to clone and modify is a bit beyond my capability I think, but nevertheless I will have a look and see what I can make of it.
Have you thought of asking permission from the originator to put your modified version on the DLS. There must be more than just I who would appreciate that modification?
Kind regards
John P.
 
First you will need an appropriate signal. I don't know of any GWR (or BR(W)) signals with a c/o arm, the closest I've found is Sig BR(W) home L shunt, kuid2:218467:24953:1, by chrisaw.

This is an extract from the config file:-
Code: 
signals
{
  0
  {
    light                               0,1,3,4
  }
  
  5
  {
    light                               2,3,4
  }
  
  8
  {
    light                               0,1,5
  }
}

extensions
{
  signal-has-bounce-animation-60850     1
  signal-displays-name-60850            0
  
  signal-arms-60850
  {
    0
    {
    }
    
    5
    {
      arm_disc                          1
    }
    
    8
    {
      arm                               1
    }
  }
}

which tells us in this case the disc reacts to signal state 5, and the main arm to signal state 8. State 8 is Proceed, state 5 is Proceed left.

If you use the DriverCommand Set Selected Signal State, kuid2:368725:60002:10 by ElStoko, and tell it to set the signal to state 5 Proceed Left, then it will overwrite the "natural" state of the signal and force it into a proceed state, even if the track in front is occupied.

This will allow your second train to pass the signal and pull up behind the first. Don't forget to use the command again to set the signal back to "automatic".

Hope this helps.
David

Edit: There is Sig BR(W) Cornish 11, kuid2:218467:24636:1 , also by chrisaw, which does have the calling-on arm, but as far as I can see, this only has 8 Proceed and 5 Proceed Left states. It may not be possible to animate the small arm...

Edit2: Apologies, I didn't realise that Brain Kennilworth had already suggested this in the other thread linked to earlier...
 
Last edited:
Don't forget the station is in control of the trains position when it is loading not the signal. Increase the station length might make it closer to the signal. AJS platform calculates the middle of the train not the front when it positions the point it stops at.
 
davidbird said:
...

There is Sig BR(W) Cornish 11, kuid2:218467:24636:1 , also by chrisaw, which does have the calling-on arm, but as far as I can see, this only has 8 Proceed and 5 Proceed Left states. It may not be possible to animate the small arm...

...
Click to expand...

I've looked at the mesh for this. Unfortunately it is not possible to animate the small arm as it is made as a part of the post.

I have made a modified version of some of the "Sig 3A ..." and "Sig 4A ..." MAS ranges (just for personal use atm as I have not had permission to release with the modified script) which incorporate the 2 small white calling-on lights and I have used these successfully in just the situation you describe. I know that doesn't help as you need GWR/BR(W) LQ semaphores, but perhaps if you were to contact Chrisaw, and ask very nicely...
 
davidbird said:
I've looked at the mesh for this. Unfortunately it is not possible to animate the small arm as it is made as a part of the post.

I have made a modified version of some of the "Sig 3A ..." and "Sig 4A ..." MAS ranges (just for personal use atm as I have not had permission to release with the modified script) which incorporate the 2 small white calling-on lights and I have used these successfully in just the situation you describe...
Click to expand...
(Those two white lights are better known in the trade as "Cats Eyes.") Shame you can't release those, I'd love to get hold of them David. Is it because you are having trouble getting permission? I know nexusdj (Dave) has certain privileges regarding Bloodnok's colour light signalling so it might be worth talking to him about things. He made my London Underground signals for me based on Bloodnok's Sig 2A colour light AB signals. I believe Bloodnok is very difficult to contact these days though.

As for calling on signals under semaphore systems, to do it accurately, there's a whole can of worms that would be opened up there that would quickly prove to be unworkable, I fear, because of the complexity of the code that would be required to make them workable. There were 3 different types of calling on signal in the real world (better known as "subsidiary signals" because of the variants.) C, W, & S being the letters associated with each type of semaphore subsidiary that allowed a driver to pass a main aspect in the "Danger" position. When the Signalman cleared a subsidiary signal it would reveal a letter underneath it. C = Calling on; W = Warning; S = Shunt. Each type was specific to a particular move or activity - the S, or Shunt, being the most obvious. These signals were in addition to subsidiary signals which allowed moves into yards or sidings.

Simplistically, Calling on or C allows movement into an occupied section under permissive working rules and arrangements. Warning or W means the section ahead is clear but the station or junction that you are approaching is blocked (this move could also be carried out under the slowly released main signal arm.) It allowed a train to proceed to the next signal which was protecting a junction or station and was mostly used to lessen the likelihood of a SPAD whilst keeping traffic moving as approaching trains would be moving much more slowly under this controlled situation. Shunt or S is pretty much self explanatory. It enabled shunting or run round operations, usually at large or terminal stations - but not solely.

Cheers

Dave
 
Last edited:
There were 3 different types of calling on signal in the real world (better known as "subsidiary signals" because of the variants.) C said:
Wow! you certainly packed a lot of information into that many thanks. I had no realization........ but now I think I may even have found you a fourth type? If I can find an original photo graph İ'll post it to your PM box.
I know I have somewhere on my PC the GWR engineering drawing for the particular one I would like to see emulated on my Trainz model. Off hand I don't recall it having any letter attached though, grateful thanks for a very informative reply.
Kind Regards
John P.
Click to expand...
 
davidbird said:
I've looked at the mesh for this. Unfortunately it is not possible to animate the small arm as it is made as a part of the post.

I have made a modified version of some of the "Sig 3A ..." and "Sig 4A ..." MAS ranges (just for personal use atm as I have not had permission to release with the modified script) which incorporate the 2 small white calling-on lights and I have used these successfully in just the situation you describe. I know that doesn't help as you need GWR/BR(W) LQ semaphores, but perhaps if you were to contact Chrisaw, and ask very nicely...
Click to expand...

Hi David,
Thanks for the advice re Chrisaw, I don't know the fellow and feel it an imposition to ask outright, but maybe I can generate a little interest from him if I send a copy of the original GWR engineers drawing and an explanation as to where and how it was used, with a tentative suggestion I might like a model of it......:D
 
stagecoach said:
Don't forget the station is in control of the trains position when it is loading not the signal. Increase the station length might make it closer to the signal. AJS platform calculates the middle of the train not the front when it positions the point it stops at.
Click to expand...

Hi stagecoach,
Yes true, although the tracks continue onward, I configured the station as a terminus, thus the head of any train length stops more or less in the same place. Then placed a signal in front of. This seems to work well, but hasn't been fully tested as yet.
 
The terminus option still uses the middle of the consist as the stop point. I have this on a terminus platform where a steam train arrives and unloads before the engine uncouples and moves forward to change tracks to couple at the rear.
 
parryjc said:
Wow! you certainly packed a lot of information into that many thanks. I had no realization........ but now I think I may even have found you a fourth type? If I can find an original photo graph İ'll post it to your PM box.
I know I have somewhere on my PC the GWR engineering drawing for the particular one I would like to see emulated on my Trainz model. Off hand I don't recall it having any letter attached though, grateful thanks for a very informative reply.
Kind Regards
John P.
Click to expand...
Glad to be able to fill in a few gaps, John. There may well be other semaphore subsidiaries that were used but my poor old brain often struggles to recall many things without a hint or a nudge ha ha! It was possible for subsidiaries to be used with miniature theatre box displays too, though, similar to the main line signals, thus giving an indication to the footplate staff of the route they were being directed towards during a shunt move or a run round perhaps; much like modern colour light cats eyes signals often do.

Anyway, good luck in your search for a solution. I shall watch with interest.

Cheers :D

Dave
 
Just thought I would share how I have resolved the 'calling on signal' as shown below.

9a0501e2653b1792d7b43294f7d0bf4c.jpg


The signal consists of three individual signals sat on three lines, one on correct track and the other two on invisible track laid over the correct track and joined with the correct track at a three way invisible junction either side of the signal.
The four call on signals are then attached to an invisible pieces of fixed track that is slid into place but not connected to any track. Then I use 'SetSelectedSignalState' to change the aspect of whichever 'calling on' signal I wish to use.
Used with 'Enhanced Interlocking Towers' and 'ApproachToTrain' it works perfectly.

Peter
 
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