Win 8, T12: the positive thread

[Derekc75]

Hi Everyone:

Every so often someone asks if Trainz 12 works with Windows 8 and suddenly it stirs up a "hornets" nest!

I am starting this thread to simply tell the truth. T12 works perfectly in Windows 8. I sincerely hope that the negative comments do not start here. We have seen the negative comments against Windows 8 time and again. You know who you are. So please lets keep this positive.

To prove that I know something about this issue I posted the same question on November 28, 2012 "Trainz and Windows 8:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?95921-Trainz-and-windows-8

So here is the answer to the question.

T12 works fine with Windows 8. If you are getting a new PC it will probably have Windows 8 installed. Just follow these simple step to get the familiar Desktop.


When you start Win 8 the first time it goes to the "dreaded" Metro screen. There are two simple steps to do.

1. Simply hit the "Windows key" + "d" and that takes you to the familiar Desktop.

2. Go to http://www.classicstart8.com/ and download and install the Classic Start 8 free program. It installs the Start menu in the lower left side of the taskbar. There, you are instantly back to the familiar Desktop and Start menu!!

Click on the Startup icon to find Shutdown in the familiar place. Next time you start up and login remember the all important "Windows key" + "d" combo to get back to the Desktop. What could be easier?

If you have a new PC then install T12. I recommend NOT installing it in Crogram files (x86). Install it in your user directly, or better yet on a separate HDD or SDD. I have mine installed on my D drive. This means that no administration problems occur.

After the installation go to the Desktop and left-click on the Trainz icon and drag it to the taskbar (this pins it there). Now just single-click on the icon on the taskbar and it starts. Simple, Metro screen avoided, no problems!

I am running two versions of T12, both build 49922 and the latest build 57898. Both work perfectly.

My home setup uses an HDMI cable that goes through my Home Theater and then into our HD TV. That way I get the surround sound and the big screen at 1920 X 1080. Add a wireless keyboard and mouse and I sit comfortably back 3 meters (10 feet ) from the screen. This is the way that Trainz is meant to be enjoyed.

Can we all agree that if some negative posts appear in this thread that we simply ignore them? Otherwise this Positive thread will get highjacked like some many others.

If you have other constructive tips or hints on using Trainz in Windows 8 please add them.

:Y:


EDIT:

Unfortunately the "anti Windows 8 guys" hijacked this thread. Read on if you want to but if you are getting a new computer with Windows 8 installed just follow my instructions in this post and you should have a rewarding Trainz experience. I have installed many other Windows programs and they all work perfectly in the Desktop environment that is IDENTICAL to Windows 7.

Below is a screenshot from my WINDOWS 8 DESKTOP. An image is worth a thousand words. You have to admit that this sure looks like the familiar Desktop. The Windows icon on the left side of the task bar at the bottom opens up the Start Menu that is identical to Win 7. Case closed!

 

[jkfrench]

Windows 8 is working great for me as well. I also have the same two builds of TS12 as mentioned in the original post (mine also has the TS2010 content added to them) as well as stand-alone TS2010, TS2009, Trainz Classics 1,2 & 3 combined, TRS2006, TRS2004, UTC and Trainz 1.1.1 all running fine under Windows 8 ... in fact Windows 8 actually fixed a couple of issues that I had with TS12 while running under Windows 7 (that was build 49922). I also added a third-party start menu ... http://www.classicshell.net/ ... this one is free too ... it definitely brought me back into my comfort zone with Windows.

 

[johnwhelan]

Most vendors will install Win 7 by request on a new machine.

Technically Win 8 allows the use of larger disks but I haven't seen any other major advantages. I suppose you could say it keeps the brain active to learn a new interface, or you could study a second language or read an interesting book both are useful for keeping the brain active.

I understand win 8.1 will be announced real soon now so I assume we should all install our copies of Win 8 now so we can learn yet another new interface when Win 8.1 comes out.

In the printing world there is a saying that good typesetting is invisible, it isn't noticed. An operating system is a bit like typesetting, it helps gets a message across, in the case of typesetting it helps the reader read, in the case of an operating system its to help the programs run, nothing else.

Yes Vista was more secure than Win XP, Win 7 was a little faster and didn't get in the way of quite so many programs, but Win 8 I have yet to see a really positive reason for its existence other than support for 3+ TB drives.

Cheerio John

 

[SharkNose]

I recently made the full switch to Windows 8 and TS12 build 57898 runs fine on it. I installed it to C:\TS12 and the only problem that caused was that the TS12 patches didn't see it automatically. I had to tell them where TS12 was installed. Outside of that, things are working great! PEVSoft tools, AssetX, Blender 2.66, TranzDEM - all are working fine under Windows 8.

Andrew

 

[Robert2d6]

Most vendors will install Win 7 by request on a new machine.

Technically Win 8 allows the use of larger disks but I haven't seen any other major advantages. I suppose you could say it keeps the brain active to learn a new interface, or you could study a second language or read an interesting book both are useful for keeping the brain active.

I understand win 8.1 will be announced real soon now so I assume we should all install our copies of Win 8 now so we can learn yet another new interface when Win 8.1 comes out.

In the printing world there is a saying that good typesetting is invisible, it isn't noticed. An operating system is a bit like typesetting, it helps gets a message across, in the case of typesetting it helps the reader read, in the case of an operating system its to help the programs run, nothing else.

Yes Vista was more secure than Win XP, Win 7 was a little faster and didn't get in the way of quite so many programs, but Win 8 I have yet to see a really positive reason for its existence other than support for 3+ TB drives.

Cheerio John

The people that are in the high end tech world, pretty much think that Microsoft has really screwed up with Windows 8, and in fact, is already working on a replacement for it, Windows Blue. The bottom line is , you do not have to accept a PC with windows 8 on it if you don't want to. Most PC manufacturers will put Windows 7 on a new purchase, rather than losing a sale. Now if all you are concerned about is running Trainz, and nothing else on your PC, then maybe Windows 8 is worth the gamble, but if you do many other things with a PC, Windows 8 can be a real problem. It was designed for a Tablet and a Smartphone, not a Desktop PC.

 

[hminky]

"Win 8, T12: the positive thread"

I guess some of you guys failed reading comprehension in school!

Some of us like Win8

Harold

EDIT: You guys might have a complaint if you were using the Win8.

 

[Bill69]

Thi might be interesting to Windows 8 users.

http://techday.com/it-brief/news/mi...ja&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ngnewsletter

I hope the update will be free so you don't have to layout more cash for an operating syatem.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[hminky]

What is the obsession with the start button?

Go to the right side with the mouse pointer and all the start crap comes up under "Settings".

Go down to the left corner and that takes you back to the "start screen" with all the apps.

Are people that stupid they can't make that simple adjustment?

Harold

 

[jkfrench]

The people that are in the high end tech world, pretty much think that Microsoft has really screwed up with Windows 8, and in fact, is already working on a replacement for it, Windows Blue. The bottom line is , you do not have to accept a PC with windows 8 on it if you don't want to. Most PC manufacturers will put Windows 7 on a new purchase, rather than losing a sale. Now if all you are concerned about is running Trainz, and nothing else on your PC, then maybe Windows 8 is worth the gamble, but if you do many other things with a PC, Windows 8 can be a real problem. It was designed for a Tablet and a Smartphone, not a Desktop PC.

I write software that communicates with industrial autoclaves, presses and ovens using serial, GPIB and ethernet-based communication (i.e. the ones that are used to build airplanes, helicopters, etc) ... plus as a hobby I do audio and video processing ... everything from format conversions to compression to general creation. I also have started getting into both Android and Arduino (open-source hardware) development.

Windows 8 on the PC allows me to do virtual EVERYTHING that I was doing in Windows 7 ... most times just as well, some times even better (yes, even better performance). Every single application that I use on a regular basis (and even those that I don't use so often) has transferred over to Windows 8 with little to no problems ... generally security settings are what causes most compatibility issues and I have been able to successfully resolve ALL of them. When there is a Windows 7 update (yes I still update Windows 7 computers on a regular basis), the EXACT same update is generally available for Windows 8 ... because underneath it all, Windows 7 and Windows 8 at the kernel level are very, very similar (and if they weren't, compatibility would be a huge issue ... but it's not).

Yes, Windows 8 for PCs has a new Metro Interface that is also supported on Phones and Tablets ... but unlike those devices that only support Mobile-based applications ... the full PC version of Windows 8 has all of the underlying support that has been available (and continues to be improved upon) since Windows NT, including 2000, XP, Vista, 7 and now 8 ... yeah, you have to still play with settings, do some new special tweaking to install older drivers, etc. But, in reality, the only thing lost with Windows 8 on the PC is the Start Menu that has been replaced by the mobile-similar/compatible Start Screen (and if you do happen to have a touch screen interface on a PC, it is far easier to use than having to select single-line menu options ... so kudos to Microsoft for giving me that new easier touch screen support) ... and frankly, even the Start Menu is available easily and freely available from multiple third parties ... so in reality, we've lost nothing.

I for one have become very comfortable with Windows 8 and am glad I took the time and effort to learn about the latest Microsoft OS ... rather than constantly attempting to find fault.

And oh, by-the-way ... Windows Blue ... yeah ... last I read ... the desktop mode may go away entirely ... and ... do you really want to assume it's not?

Ask yourself this ... if the Windows 7 start menu was still available on Windows 8 ... and you could by pass the start screen entirely and boot to the desktop in Windows 8 ... would you still have a problem with it? Because that's EXACTLY what I'm doing.

 

[geophil]

What is the obsession with the start button?

The Start button is a mere symbol. It's the strategy. The clear message sent to the user is that they want to make Windows a platform for "apps", programs they can control via their "store". Classic desktop applications are no longer in Microsoft's interest and merely seen as a legacy they have to cope with for a limited time. Ballmer underlined this several times.

The potential customer understood the message. But unexpectedly - at least for Microsoft - he did not oblige. According to statistical analysis, market share of Windows 8 (all flavours) is still behind Windows Vista comparing the same period after release.

For those who want to dig deeper: The "app" programming model behind Windows 8 with two conflicting paradigms and the exhumed COM interface is something that reminds you of all the Microsoft sins of the 1980s and 1990s before they went professional, mainly driven by the success of the NT line. Their reputation among pros was really quite good, before Win8, of course.

Sorry for spoiling the thread.

 

[nugget2225]

i won't be using it when microsoft makes the next big mistake this summer with windows 8.1 unless its seperated into 2 operating systems like it should have been in the first place, i know what the topic of this thread is, but i am still going to voice my opinion, i created another thread and i can bet over 80% of people running trainz are still on windows 7, my legacy games and alot of software just doesnt fly on windows 8, lets wait and see in june with the next preview of beta software and people making purchases of it in octoberish

 

[Robert2d6]

What is the obsession with the start button?

Go to the right side with the mouse pointer and all the start crap comes up under "Settings".

Go down to the left corner and that takes you back to the "start screen" with all the apps.

Are people that stupid they can't make that simple adjustment?

Harold

There never was such a thing as a "Start Button" in earlier versions of Windows. It was a "start menu." that contained many functions that you could select like, restart, shutdown, sleep, etc.... There is no plan to have a start menu in Windows 8. More misinformation.

I guess what really confuses me is that you make post after post on another forum claiming that TS12 doesn't run well, and is horrible, and the game stinks, it is a dog, etc...etc... and yet you post on this thread how happy you are with Windows 8 . Maybe all your problems with TS12 is your OS.....

 

[Robert2d6]

I write software that communicates with industrial autoclaves, presses and ovens using serial, GPIB and ethernet-based communication (i.e. the ones that are used to build airplanes, helicopters, etc) ... plus as a hobby I do audio and video processing ... everything from format conversions to compression to general creation. I also have started getting into both Android and Arduino (open-source hardware) development. Windows 8 on the PC allows me to do virtual EVERYTHING that I was doing in Windows 7 ... most times just as well, some times even better (yes, even better performance). Every single application that I use on a regular basis (and even those that I don't use so often) has transferred over to Windows 8 with little to no problems ... generally security settings are what causes most compatibility issues and I have been able to successfully resolve ALL of them. When there is a Windows 7 update (yes I still update Windows 7 computers on a regular basis), the EXACT same update is generally available for Windows 8 ... because underneath it all, Windows 7 and Windows 8 at the kernel level are very, very similar (and if they weren't, compatibility would be a huge issue ... but it's not). Yes Windows 8 for PCs has a new Metro Interface that is also supported on Phones and Tablets ... but unlike those devices that only support Mobile-based applications ... the full PC version of Windows 8 has all of the underlying support that has been available (and continues to be improved upon) since Windows NT, including 2000, XP, Vista, 7 and now 8 ... yeah, you have to still play with settings, do some new special tweaking to install older drivers, etc. But, in reality, the only thing lost with Windows 8 on the PC is the Start Menu that has been replaced by the mobile-similar/compatible Start Screen (and if you do happen to have a touch screen interface on a PC, it is far easier to use than having to select single-line menu options ... so kudos to Microsoft for giving me that new easier touch screen support) ... and frankly, even the Start Menu is available easily and freely available from multiple third parties ... so in reality, we've lost nothing. I for one have become very comfortable with Windows 8 and am glad I took the time and effort to learn about the latest Microsoft OS ... rather than constantly attempting to find fault. And oh, by-the-way ... Windows Blue ... yeah ... last I read ... the desktop mode may go away entirely ... and ... do you really want to assume it's not? Ask yourself this ... if the Windows 7 start menu was still available on Windows 8 ... and you could by pass the start screen entirely and boot to the desktop in Windows 8 ... would you still have a problem with it? Because that's EXACTLY what I'm doing.

Guess it doesn't do paragraphs well...

 

[Robert2d6]

The Start button is a mere symbol. It's the strategy. The clear message sent to the user is that they want to make Windows a platform for "apps", programs they can control via their "store". Classic desktop applications are no longer in Microsoft's interest and merely seen as a legacy they have to cope with for a limited time. Ballmer underlined this several times.

The potential customer understood the message. But unexpectedly - at least for Microsoft - he did not oblige. According to statistical analysis, market share of Windows 8 (all flavours) is still behind Windows Vista comparing the same period after release.

For those who want to dig deeper: The "app" programming model behind Windows 8 with two conflicting paradigms and the exhumed COM interface is something that reminds you of all the Microsoft sins of the 1980s and 1990s before they went professional, mainly driven by the success of the NT line. Their reputation among pros was really quite good, before Win8, of course.

Sorry for spoiling the thread.

I deal with IT people from major companies as part of my job, and I haven't met one yet that likes or recommends Windows 8. Many companies are still using Windows XP, and when the support for that goes away, they are already planning on replacing it with Windows 7.

 

[jkfrench]

Guess it doesn't do paragraphs well...

Actually, I did that on an Android tablet ... on a touch screen ... I do take liberties sometimes when I'm typing on it ... so, for you Bob, I went back to my Windows 8 computer this morning and broke it up some. But really, the only comment you have is about how I (not Windows 8) didn't paragraph.

 

[hminky]

Guess it doesn't do paragraphs well...

Your hatred of Win8 is border line psychotic.

Geez, get some help BOB!! are you trying to win the "Trolling Spammer of the Year" award or something.

I used "Start Button" instead of "Start Menu" because that was the reference in the article in post #7 :

Codenamed Microsoft Blue, the update is set to be rolled out later this year, with most expecting Microsoft to restore the Start button to the operating system.

The switch in screens wasn't as bad as that from TS2010 to TS12.

Harold

EDIT: The difference between Win8 and the TS12 SP1 fiasco is that SP! turned Trainz into a steaming pile. Win8 works just like Win7.

 

[Robert2d6]

Actually, I did that on an Android tablet ... on a touch screen ... I do take liberties sometimes when I'm typing on it ... so, for you Bob, I went back to my Windows 8 computer this morning and broke it up some. But really, the only comment you have is about how I (not Windows 8) didn't paragraph.

It just gave me a headache trying to read it.

 

[johnwhelan]

EDIT: The difference between Win8 and the TS12 SP1 fiasco is that SP! turned Trainz into a steaming pile. Win8 works just like Win7.

Not quite accurate. There are some differences between Win 7 and Win 8 the most noticeable is the user interface. User interfaces are important and users don't like change, I've seen it take three years before booking a room / resource through outlook was accepted by the organisation and people time is expensive, I used to use an average cost of $350 a day and that was twenty years ago.

Cheerio John

 

[Robert2d6]

Your hatred of Win8 is border line psychotic.

Geez, get some help BOB!! are you trying to win the "Trolling Spammer of the Year" award or something.

I used "Start Button" instead of "Start Menu" because that was the reference in the article in post #7 :



The switch in screens wasn't as bad as that from TS2010 to TS12.

Harold

EDIT: The difference between Win8 and the TS12 SP1 fiasco is that SP! turned Trainz into a steaming pile. Win8 works just like Win7.

And many people think that the UI in Windows 8 is a "steaming pile" and apparently so does the company that created it, because they have been writing a fix for it's problem for months. If you will do a search on this forum you will see that I talked about Windows Blue months ago.

By the way, I notice that when you disagree with someone both on this forum and the other one you are on all the time, many times you resort to insulting the person you disagree with, by calling them derogatory names. Is this something you do in person, or only when you are hiding behind a computer monitor?

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Undoubtedly the reason why Windows 8 has come about is that Microsoft has very much catching up to do with Google and Apple. For many years Microsofts main income has come from its PC operating system "Windows" with its great wealth laying with its dominance in that operating system for the PC market. The PC is still the king pin of millions of offices throughout the world. But things are rapidly changing as mobility and ease of access becomes an ever-increasing competitive necessity of those same offices as they strive to keep up with the business round the corner.

There is no longer as much need for all the company information to reside on those office PCs. Cloud storage along with lightweight laptops and ever-increasing numbers of tablet computers have enabled workers to engage fully with their companies while they are on the move. I believe (as a side issue) it has very much contributed to the huge increase in rail travel throughout Europe. people can work while they are travelling by train passing information to from there central offices. In my own company all the "mobile employees" are expected to travel by rail whenever possible and work while they are doing so which cuts out downtime.

However, the foregoing has removed the ground from under Microsoft and as stated Windows 8 is the company's attempt to bring a presence into the mobile market through the operating systems easy linkup with phones and tablets which have the same Windows operating system. We now have two PCs in our offices along with several phones and tablets all running Windows 8 and I have to say that they all link together in an excellent way and therefore the strategy of Microsoft could possibly turn out to be a winner.

Having stated all the above, I would have thought that the members of this forum would be very much hoping that Windows 8 was a success. The future of the PC market and therefore the PC version of trainz well may depend on Microsoft gaining financial success from what many see as its late gamble on gaining a foothold in the mobile market. It was reported widely in the press this week that sells of PCs are down over 30% over the corresponding four-month period of last year and therefore the purchase sales of Windows 8 is consequently lower than expected.

The gaming market has already changed with inexpensive or even free app type games dominating phone and tablet usage and heavier games being developed solely for Xbox and PlayStation machines. Auran/N3V I believe have done a remarkable job in developing its product for the android and iPad market but it is a lightweight version as compared to the PC development. It has often been said that trainz and other rail simulators are a niche product within the PC gaming market. If the PCs themselves are to become a niche market then trainz will become a niche market within a niche market and I would think that many would feel that situation would not be sustainable.

So, less derogatory comments and more support for Windows 8 might not go amiss on this forum if its members wish to see the continuation in the long or even medium-term of trainz for PC.

Bill
who is off to see along with his wife Manchester United collect the premiership trophy this weekend along with the retirement of Sir Alex Ferguson, the greatest football manager there has ever been. We've got seats just behind the directors box, so it's definitely going to be the weekend of a lifetime. Any comments on my posting I will reply to on my android tablet in periods when I am sober (LOL)