Mike_Brown
New member
I have lost the will to go on. Tonight I fire up Trainz for the first time since Saturday, and what do I see before me? 893 UPDATES!!!!!!! :'( Someone has to be joking, don't they.
Will to Trainz
- Thread starter Mike_Brown
- Start date
Updates = Content creators who made their assets look better / perform better / less faulty.
I don't see the problem in updated assets.
Having seen people who actually lost the will to live, I think you have seriously crossed a line with a subject line like that.
Edit:
I am happy to see that moderators have now changed the topic title from "Will to live" to "Will to Trainz". Thanks.
I don't see the problem in updated assets.
Having seen people who actually lost the will to live, I think you have seriously crossed a line with a subject line like that.
Edit:
I am happy to see that moderators have now changed the topic title from "Will to live" to "Will to Trainz". Thanks.
Last edited:
I have lost the will to go on. Tonight I fire up Trainz for the first time since Saturday, and what do I see before me? 893 UPDATES!!!!!!! :'( Someone has to be joking, don't they.
That's the total number of updates, you won't have all those assets.
Do a cm search for out of date=true, under that location=local. Select apply, then you will see what assets you have that are out of date.
Mike_Brown
New member
First of all, my apologies if my choice of headline caused a few perches to sway in the breeze – I shall take more care in future (assuming the existence of a meaningful future). Nevertheless, as is so often the case in these Forums, it did produce a response from someone who was at least trying to be helpful.
Secondly apologies for the length of this response. I suppose I could have saved time and effort by writing this in the first place.
It seems that most seem to have missed the point of my “odd moan”, and it may be that I’ve got it all wrong and there good elegant means to accomplish what I want, in which case I apologise (again). I do fully appreciate the efforts of a large number of content creators getting their constructs up to speed with the latest tinkerings within Trainz. I also know that I don’t have to accept all updates; I am aware of that, simply because of the 893 (now 899) updates available to me, 32 are left over from all previous updates received. These all arrived from time to time, many of them several months ago, and are those which I chose not to use (the assets to which they refer having been deleted or disabled earlier). Unless there is something I am not aware of (admittedly, quite possible) it seems that I cannot get rid of these 32 from my list of available updates.
So now I continue as I have in the past. I find out which of my assets are out of date, and compare that list with the list of available updates, and produce another list of those updates I want to take on board. That’s not an unreasonable task with a couple of dozen items, but with 899 …………?
Wanting to make a selection from the updates available means of course that I can’t use the “Download All” function, which in turn means that (unless there is something else I don’t know, which again is, I suppose, not improbable), I will have to select each update I want/need and download and install them individually. Assuming I need only half of the available updates, that’s well over 400, any one of which could take from 30 seconds to several minutes – and will still have well over 400 on my list, amongst which the next arrivals will be interspersed?
I am retired, and probably have more time to play than many another – and many of those others (most in fact) will have more patience than I, but the process described above sounds even less enticing than watching paint dry! (And on a philosophical note, having more time does not mean that Maybe this goes somewhere near to explaining the losing the will etc.
I first bought Trainz a number of years ago, and have kept with it for a long time, reasonably quietly getting on with it (admittedly with one or two moans from time to time). Strangely enough I bought it to play the game.- increasingly over the last 2/3 years I have, however, been caught up in delving into config files etc, mending assets, searching for missing dependencies etc, etc. Now I’m spending hours bringing assets up to date.
IT’S NOT WHAT I BOUGHT IT FOR.
I have seen and heard the good reasons and the excuses about NV3 being a small organisation operating in a niche market on minimal margins etc, etc. But surely they must realise that satisfactory customer experience is an important factor. It appears to me that half the traffic on the forums boils down to asset management, with the same issues arising time after time, to no apparent effect. Surely some effort spent on improving the customer experience, even if it doesn’t in itself produce extra revenue, may be worth more in the long term than “new, better” versions of Trainz, which within a few weeks of release, are up for sale with a 30% (or more) price reduction.
I’m sure I’m not the only customer who wants to get on with it without having to fiddle about with programming etc. I avoided it during 20 years of working in and with IT, and I don’t want it now.
Secondly apologies for the length of this response. I suppose I could have saved time and effort by writing this in the first place.
It seems that most seem to have missed the point of my “odd moan”, and it may be that I’ve got it all wrong and there good elegant means to accomplish what I want, in which case I apologise (again). I do fully appreciate the efforts of a large number of content creators getting their constructs up to speed with the latest tinkerings within Trainz. I also know that I don’t have to accept all updates; I am aware of that, simply because of the 893 (now 899) updates available to me, 32 are left over from all previous updates received. These all arrived from time to time, many of them several months ago, and are those which I chose not to use (the assets to which they refer having been deleted or disabled earlier). Unless there is something I am not aware of (admittedly, quite possible) it seems that I cannot get rid of these 32 from my list of available updates.
So now I continue as I have in the past. I find out which of my assets are out of date, and compare that list with the list of available updates, and produce another list of those updates I want to take on board. That’s not an unreasonable task with a couple of dozen items, but with 899 …………?
Wanting to make a selection from the updates available means of course that I can’t use the “Download All” function, which in turn means that (unless there is something else I don’t know, which again is, I suppose, not improbable), I will have to select each update I want/need and download and install them individually. Assuming I need only half of the available updates, that’s well over 400, any one of which could take from 30 seconds to several minutes – and will still have well over 400 on my list, amongst which the next arrivals will be interspersed?
I am retired, and probably have more time to play than many another – and many of those others (most in fact) will have more patience than I, but the process described above sounds even less enticing than watching paint dry! (And on a philosophical note, having more time does not mean that Maybe this goes somewhere near to explaining the losing the will etc.
I first bought Trainz a number of years ago, and have kept with it for a long time, reasonably quietly getting on with it (admittedly with one or two moans from time to time). Strangely enough I bought it to play the game.- increasingly over the last 2/3 years I have, however, been caught up in delving into config files etc, mending assets, searching for missing dependencies etc, etc. Now I’m spending hours bringing assets up to date.
IT’S NOT WHAT I BOUGHT IT FOR.
I have seen and heard the good reasons and the excuses about NV3 being a small organisation operating in a niche market on minimal margins etc, etc. But surely they must realise that satisfactory customer experience is an important factor. It appears to me that half the traffic on the forums boils down to asset management, with the same issues arising time after time, to no apparent effect. Surely some effort spent on improving the customer experience, even if it doesn’t in itself produce extra revenue, may be worth more in the long term than “new, better” versions of Trainz, which within a few weeks of release, are up for sale with a 30% (or more) price reduction.
I’m sure I’m not the only customer who wants to get on with it without having to fiddle about with programming etc. I avoided it during 20 years of working in and with IT, and I don’t want it now.
You can let the update downloader run without problems while doing other things in game, so you do not have to watch paint dry. In case of not having a FCT: Files downloaded in-game do not count against your daily maximum of 100mb/day.
If you try to use old(er) content in a newer game, you know there is a risk of these assets not working. If you however still do this, you have to live with the consequences.
Bad example:
If you put fuel made 80 years ago in a car made today, chances are that car does not drive unless you either change the car (but we are not going to) or chance something to the fuel. Todays fuel is a lot better for performance yet cars of 80 years ago can not handle it / will not drive on it.
I hope this made any sense.
No offence, but:
I (still) don't see why you have a problem with content creators who update their assets and on the other hand are complaining about having to fix older assets which apparently not got updated by their creators.
If you try to use old(er) content in a newer game, you know there is a risk of these assets not working. If you however still do this, you have to live with the consequences.
Bad example:
If you put fuel made 80 years ago in a car made today, chances are that car does not drive unless you either change the car (but we are not going to) or chance something to the fuel. Todays fuel is a lot better for performance yet cars of 80 years ago can not handle it / will not drive on it.
I hope this made any sense.
No offence, but:
I (still) don't see why you have a problem with content creators who update their assets and on the other hand are complaining about having to fix older assets which apparently not got updated by their creators.
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I sympathise, sometimes it feels like content manager IS the game.
By the way I have 3279 uploads available to me. Since I discovered that some of these are splines wrongly fixed in the DLS clean-up process - I'm very particular about what I update. I'd rather create and play, than fix.
If you are a user of flickr, you will know 'new' does not always equal better............
By the way I have 3279 uploads available to me. Since I discovered that some of these are splines wrongly fixed in the DLS clean-up process - I'm very particular about what I update. I'd rather create and play, than fix.
If you are a user of flickr, you will know 'new' does not always equal better............
"Wanting to make a selection from the updates available means of course that I can’t use the “Download All” function, which in turn means that (unless there is something else I don’t know, which again is, I suppose, not improbable), I will have to select each update I want/need and download and install them individually. Assuming I need only half of the available updates, that’s well over 400, any one of which could take from 30 seconds to several minutes – and will still have well over 400 on my list, amongst which the next arrivals will be interspersed?"
Follow my post #4, then \/
Once you have the results right mouse click and select all, rmc again and select view asset versions, rmc again select all and finally rmc select download. All local content is now updated.
Follow my post #4, then \/
Once you have the results right mouse click and select all, rmc again and select view asset versions, rmc again select all and finally rmc select download. All local content is now updated.
Mike_Brown
New member
Fran1 - thank you for your helpful suggestions, but for some reason I only ended up with 23 items that needed updating. After your final "rmc", I was not presented with a download option, merely "copy" - maybe I went wrong somewhere.
Following this attempt, I decided that the line of least resistance was simply to download all and let it do its best/worst. My machine has been running almost continuously (a couple of hours off for a scheduled security scan) since post #6, and the number of outstanding updates is now down to 531! It has skipped 25, making it 243 updates in 2.5 days - approx. 5 days to go at that rate.
On a different tack, I was a little annoyed to notice that the edit function seems not have worked on my post #6, and the second sentence of para 6 should have been amended to read:
(And on a philosophical note, having more time does not mean that it is any less precious. Maybe this goes somewhere near to explaining the losing the will etc.)
And one for the moderator and some others - the phrase "Losing the will to live" is in common usage in English. It is a phrase used, often sardonically, to indicate that a current or prospective task is, or will be, mind-bogglingly tedious. If I had used the phrase on a social networking site (heaven forfend), or on the Samaritans site, for example, I would understand the objection - but on a games forum?
Following this attempt, I decided that the line of least resistance was simply to download all and let it do its best/worst. My machine has been running almost continuously (a couple of hours off for a scheduled security scan) since post #6, and the number of outstanding updates is now down to 531! It has skipped 25, making it 243 updates in 2.5 days - approx. 5 days to go at that rate.
On a different tack, I was a little annoyed to notice that the edit function seems not have worked on my post #6, and the second sentence of para 6 should have been amended to read:
(And on a philosophical note, having more time does not mean that it is any less precious. Maybe this goes somewhere near to explaining the losing the will etc.)
And one for the moderator and some others - the phrase "Losing the will to live" is in common usage in English. It is a phrase used, often sardonically, to indicate that a current or prospective task is, or will be, mind-bogglingly tedious. If I had used the phrase on a social networking site (heaven forfend), or on the Samaritans site, for example, I would understand the objection - but on a games forum?
Mike_Brown
New member
Sometime this afternoon it finished!!! Having only had (see post #10) apparently only 23 assets out of date, Trainz seems to have absorbed 860 updates, leaving 39 "orphans" out of the original 899. I presume there is an explanation - but I'm not sure I want to know it. Is there any way to delete the 39 so that when the next solitary or group of updates arrives I see what needs to dealt with?
No you can't delete them, it shows all possible updates so for eg if your cm is 3.6, build 49922 you can also see updates which are for build 3.7 which is SP1 which you can't download.
The main problem downloading all updates is you end up with assets you'll never use which is why I update only local assets which I use.
The main problem downloading all updates is you end up with assets you'll never use which is why I update only local assets which I use.
ex-railwayman
New member
Hmmm, why, what's the matter with the new Flickr??
Anyway, just to add to this thread and not go off-topic completely, I sympathise with the OP, however, the numbers of updated assets will never go away from 899, or, whatever today's figure is, as you probably haven't got the originals that require the updates, so, there will always be a number in your game when you go into the editor, I completely ignore whatever figure appears in the box every night, I don't fiddle about with anything unless I have to, and I've had a trouble free game at present and long may it continue.
Cheerz. ex-railwayman.
ianwoodmore
Active member
Hi Mike,
During WWII I was in boarding school in Bournemouth, and used to love coming down to Dorset. Do they still sell ginger beer in stone bottles?
Anyway, I've copied an article I posted in TS12 SP1 Bugs thread on using Content Manager Search Filters so you can just download those things of interest to you or hide what you don't want to see. Hope this renews your vigour for Trainz.
During WWII I was in boarding school in Bournemouth, and used to love coming down to Dorset. Do they still sell ginger beer in stone bottles?
Anyway, I've copied an article I posted in TS12 SP1 Bugs thread on using Content Manager Search Filters so you can just download those things of interest to you or hide what you don't want to see. Hope this renews your vigour for Trainz.
Content Manager Search Filters
There have been changes to the default search filters. This will affect any custom filters you have built.
Notably the Locations group has been altered to allow finer detail searches.
Here are some replacements with the names I use. As you cannot repair obsoletes (OBS) anywhere and you cannot delete builtin OBS or Out of Date (OOD) I exclude them:
ALL - DLS (replaces Location Download Station)
On Download Station True
Installed False
DLS - NOOD (similar in operation to Game Contents Update as it only downloads Route, Session and their dependencies NOT the whole DLS)
On Download Station
Installed False
Obsolete False
Out of date False (This is optional. See a better way of doing this below)
AND
Category Routes
OR
Category Session
To exclude some assets there is a trick you can use. Keywords as per config category-keywords do not work on DLS assets obviously. But by using RMB Edit Keywords you can annotate DLS assets.
IMPORTANT these are volatile and get destroyed when you Commit. However, use File Backup Keywords before Committing and your TAD will remember them. The keywords are stored separately from assets.tdx in a file KeywordsDump.dat in the Trainz root folder. If you then have to re-instate them because of assets.tdx crash or when moving to another instal you can File Restore Keywords. Takes a bit of discipline to ensure continuing success but very useful.
Here are a couple of examples. Crap definition as per dictionary (refuse,rubbish,junk,litter). More specifically in Trainz Asset Repair f_crap is CM Custom Search filter that can used to exclude assets that are unfixable like have no mesh, or main texture is missing because accented characters were in filename of mesh or texture:
AND NOT
Keywords f_crap
And NOT
Keywords w_payware
ALL - BI (useful to separate builtins from other local)
Builtin True
Installed True (This is redundant here but when building more complex filters is useful
OBS - BI (All builtin OBS that cannot be deleted)
Builtin True
Obsolete True
Similarly
OOD - BI
Builtin True
Out of date True
Unlike OOD - Local that can be dragged into DLH en bulk, this doesn't work for OOD - BI. There is a way to force the supersessions.
RMB 'View Asset Versions' one at a time. 'View in Main List'. Look for the latest asset that has the DS icon and drag to DLH.
This is very useful to solve the obsoletion bug issues. EG :1 is there but :2 and :3 are missing and latest is :4.
Now LOCALS need to exclude Builtins
OBS - LOCAL
Builtin False
Installed True
Obsolete True
Similarly
OOD - LOCAL
Builtin False
Installed True
Out of date True
You can do a similar set for DLS.
If you want to know what assets Trainz cannot resolve.
A special keyword w_locked can be used with builtin locked items using the RMB Edit Keywords method, overcomes the annoying issue that you cannot commit any changes to these assets. Use this keyword as an exclusion.
UNKNOWN (replaces Location Unknown)
Installed False
On Download Station False
Out of date false
You will get some assets with OBS icon that you can delete.
The ones with a large ? drag into Download Helper (DLH) and it will sort out those that are genuine but didn't find the first time and those that cannot be downloaded from DLS.
At this stage you could delete all remaining entries in the UNKNOWN view.
NOTE - This ? is NOT the same as that seen in RMB View errors and warnings. That one refers to Missing Dependencies.
One final example on how to view assets at a particular Trainz-build (TB)
INSTALLED TB 1.3
Obsolete False
Out of date False
Installed True
Minimum build version 1.3
AND NOT
Minimum build version 1.5
For other trainz-builds just alter the two numeric values.
You can build more complex filters by using the previous examples and adjusting True/False or AND/AND NOT.
There have been changes to the default search filters. This will affect any custom filters you have built.
Notably the Locations group has been altered to allow finer detail searches.
Here are some replacements with the names I use. As you cannot repair obsoletes (OBS) anywhere and you cannot delete builtin OBS or Out of Date (OOD) I exclude them:
ALL - DLS (replaces Location Download Station)
On Download Station True
Installed False
DLS - NOOD (similar in operation to Game Contents Update as it only downloads Route, Session and their dependencies NOT the whole DLS)
On Download Station
Installed False
Obsolete False
Out of date False (This is optional. See a better way of doing this below)
AND
Category Routes
OR
Category Session
To exclude some assets there is a trick you can use. Keywords as per config category-keywords do not work on DLS assets obviously. But by using RMB Edit Keywords you can annotate DLS assets.
IMPORTANT these are volatile and get destroyed when you Commit. However, use File Backup Keywords before Committing and your TAD will remember them. The keywords are stored separately from assets.tdx in a file KeywordsDump.dat in the Trainz root folder. If you then have to re-instate them because of assets.tdx crash or when moving to another instal you can File Restore Keywords. Takes a bit of discipline to ensure continuing success but very useful.
Here are a couple of examples. Crap definition as per dictionary (refuse,rubbish,junk,litter). More specifically in Trainz Asset Repair f_crap is CM Custom Search filter that can used to exclude assets that are unfixable like have no mesh, or main texture is missing because accented characters were in filename of mesh or texture:
AND NOT
Keywords f_crap
And NOT
Keywords w_payware
ALL - BI (useful to separate builtins from other local)
Builtin True
Installed True (This is redundant here but when building more complex filters is useful
OBS - BI (All builtin OBS that cannot be deleted)
Builtin True
Obsolete True
Similarly
OOD - BI
Builtin True
Out of date True
Unlike OOD - Local that can be dragged into DLH en bulk, this doesn't work for OOD - BI. There is a way to force the supersessions.
RMB 'View Asset Versions' one at a time. 'View in Main List'. Look for the latest asset that has the DS icon and drag to DLH.
This is very useful to solve the obsoletion bug issues. EG :1 is there but :2 and :3 are missing and latest is :4.
Now LOCALS need to exclude Builtins
OBS - LOCAL
Builtin False
Installed True
Obsolete True
Similarly
OOD - LOCAL
Builtin False
Installed True
Out of date True
You can do a similar set for DLS.
If you want to know what assets Trainz cannot resolve.
A special keyword w_locked can be used with builtin locked items using the RMB Edit Keywords method, overcomes the annoying issue that you cannot commit any changes to these assets. Use this keyword as an exclusion.
UNKNOWN (replaces Location Unknown)
Installed False
On Download Station False
Out of date false
You will get some assets with OBS icon that you can delete.
The ones with a large ? drag into Download Helper (DLH) and it will sort out those that are genuine but didn't find the first time and those that cannot be downloaded from DLS.
At this stage you could delete all remaining entries in the UNKNOWN view.
NOTE - This ? is NOT the same as that seen in RMB View errors and warnings. That one refers to Missing Dependencies.
One final example on how to view assets at a particular Trainz-build (TB)
INSTALLED TB 1.3
Obsolete False
Out of date False
Installed True
Minimum build version 1.3
AND NOT
Minimum build version 1.5
For other trainz-builds just alter the two numeric values.
You can build more complex filters by using the previous examples and adjusting True/False or AND/AND NOT.
Last edited by ianwoodmore; April 13th, 2013 at 09:36 AM.
Last edited:
Mike_Brown
New member
Thank you all for your (mostly) helpful comments. I guess I must suffer from terminal naivety - I assumed updates were just that, not replacements.
Special thanks for all that about search filters - I had sorted most of that out, but still some helpful pointers. Is there any way of excluding disabled content from a search?
And yes, even Dorset has moved on! Ginger beer comes in glass/plastic bottles and aluminium cans, but if you know where to go, you can still get cider from a wooden barrel in the farmer's! We even have running water (since 195+) and broadband has achieved the astonishing speed of (up to) 1.2mbs - but thankfully, we still don't have any motorways.
Special thanks for all that about search filters - I had sorted most of that out, but still some helpful pointers. Is there any way of excluding disabled content from a search?
And yes, even Dorset has moved on! Ginger beer comes in glass/plastic bottles and aluminium cans, but if you know where to go, you can still get cider from a wooden barrel in the farmer's! We even have running water (since 195+) and broadband has achieved the astonishing speed of (up to) 1.2mbs - but thankfully, we still don't have any motorways.