Where'd all the Trainz fans go?

[cressjl]

...the official forums will always tend to be the new users first port of call...

You are exactly right, which is why I have been calling for civility and good temperament among members of this community. Thank God that I bypassed my usual research into forums prior to jumping fully into investing in Trainz (and prior to much of the fury that eventually erupted). I would have never been posting now had I read some of the posts that I eventually saw.

I dunno, but I believe that the furore can quite well do significant damage to Trainz...

 

[rjhowie]

Human flaws are part of life. In organisations or even in areas such as ours there will always be people who think they are "it" no matter how principled an organisation, hobby or forum

 

[martinvk]

Putting on my rose tinted nostalgia glasses, the forums were different in the early days of Trainz. We were all discovering and exploring this new game, finding and sharing interesting things. There were fewer egos and no real experts since we were all newbies having fun. Too bad we now live at a time when it has become almost fashionable to disrespect a product and the people involved with it. What is really sad is how some almost revel in the scorn they can spread.

Trainz has improved and I would like to think the forums too. The depth of knowledge spread among the members is a great resource. I like to see it all in one place, being too lazy to have to remember where I saw an answer to a question I might have read about weeks or months ago. Plus, having to repeat the same Q&A in multiple forums is also a waste of time.

 

[pware]

In my opinion the bad feeling generated when TRS06 was released was far worse.

Yes, that brings back some unpleasant memories, even when Auran (as it was back then) fixed a significant bug in TS2004 when they released TS2006, they were loudly attacked by some. Wholbr does have a point about the venom from some quarters over kickstarter and the original release of TANE.

 

[boc61]

The release of TS 2006 was a perfect storm. Besides the 2004 vs 2006 fighting, I recall there were issues over how 2006 was being distributed, if I remember correctly there were people who were acting as middlemen between Auran and it's customers and there were all sorts of arguments over that. It was also the time when that new simulator was showing up...Kuju, I think. That all added to the hysterics. Then, "coincidentally" came the Great Forum Crash of 2006 and the board went dark for about a month.

 

[jjanmarine3]

Something went wrong between the kickstarter period and now.
I enjoyed the comradeship during kickstarter and I think trainzers were possibly expecting more than what has happened up to now if I read and understand the general opinion correctly regarding TANE .

 

[pware]

Warning: This could rake over old coals

As Tony Hilliam indicated in a recent post, N3V would not repeat the Kickstarter experience. While he did not state it, he implied (to my reading between the lines at least) that the Kickstarter contractual obligations meant that T:ANE had to be released at the time it was (May 2015) - which was long before it was ready. Anyone who has been in software development can tell you that projects are rarely, if ever, finished in the time allocated by management or marketing. Consequently, many of the promised features were not implemented and "bugs" seemed to be more common than "features". This created a huge and understandable outcry.

Even with the new features, such as the Interlocking Towers for example, there were endless arguments over the fact that certain UK 3rd party signals did not work with the new feature. Demands were made that this be fixed immediately even though it was explained, repeatedly, that the problem was with the operation of the 3rd party signals and not T:ANE. For legal reasons the "fix" had to come from outside N3V. Some threatened to boycott T:ANE or leave Trainz all together over this and other related issues.

SP1 was a significant improvement but it did not live up to everyone's expectations because it did not fix all the known bugs and add in all the promised features that were missing from the May release. The SP1 release was followed almost immediately by the announcement that N3V would be starting work on T:ANEs successor. This created more angst and fire from those who believed that software development was a cottage industry, not a commercial activity.

My point in all this is to show that social media is prone to emotional posts, tantrums and "walkouts". People post out of ignorance, they are guided by rumours, errors and misinformation. A single wrong word or phrase, intentional or not, can lead to a flame war. This, I believe, has become worse over the years. We now have posters (not all) who could be described as belonging to the "me-now" generation. They are not prepared to wait or to attempt to solve problems themselves - who needs problem solving skills when you have instant answers provided by Mr Google. This is the era of fast food, fast cars, fast Internet, fast women (I'm still waiting). The "gimme pigs" are one example of this - it is too hard and takes too long to learn to use GMax, or Blender or even (yuk) Sketchup and so much easier to ask others to do it all for you ("fast asset creation").

 

[aussepom]

Hi John, was looking for road material, your name came up, but I still have not found what I was looking for. well my two bobs worth on what's happened is the same experience that i have had I expect. T:ANE was brought out before it was ready yes, but here was a lot of information held back by the company. I have bought disks as I move to Tasmania, not being sure of the internet availability. Today I finally got the promised replacement disk. this still no fun installing but I have done it. I have installed O'neals loco stuff and some others all work well and give you a lot more content in locos to build layouts with. NV3 went away from the 2010 and 2012 format that gave those alot of content to build interesting layout with, not so with T:ANE.
like many others frustrated at years of building layouts to find that it was not good for TANE or most of it.
I started on a Tasmanian layout only to have to find I would have to start all over with most of it. no wonder people have left.
I decided to wait until TANE got to a point that it may be almost worth playing again. yes I am an older person 75. but use to love the 2010.
I did a lot of testing as each tane came out then reported back in no uncertain terms to the support crew that some thing must be done. I did get some help and some satisfaction, now I have disk back up and my install in this one is 80345, but I have one on another drive at 80349.
Then NV3 started spouting off about 'the next' well I did send back a reply, get this right first? so yes I can see why people have left.

now John I have been looking for on and off ramps to the hyways and motorways. I started a thread on this some where can you help,

 

[boleyd]

This thread is very enlightening. Bits of pieces of non-technical personal info reset the stage and should offer a good perspective on where we are now. When Tony began calling Trainz/TANE a game it made me very upset as I recalled the same transformation to RailWorks which I USED to enjoy. I thought, here we go. Frozen core code and just fancy scoreboards and "challenges".

I think I was wrong. "So far" N3V has been able to mange to retain a strong simulation flavor while tapping the game market. The revenue from the simulator is sparse when compared to the game side. BUT, it is precisely the capabilities of the simulator portion that makes the program interesting and sufficiently factual to interest gamers who appreciate a challenge in a fairly real setting.

The older Trainz products have much of the same functionality and thus retain a core following who enjoy making railways as real as possible, but in a functional sense. Add up-to-date graphics and some new functions and you get TANE. It is easy to see why someone would stay with the "old stuff" since functionality remains so similar across Trainz & TANE. We see evidence of TANE evolving in the functional (railroad) area with Interlocking Towers. Other major elements may be forthcoming. So far TANE looks like it can offer functionality similar to Trainz xxxx alongside improved graphics.

It is a game but a very complex one if you lift the covers.

 

[martinvk]

... (to my reading between the lines at least) ...

we must have bought the same glasses, I see the same between the lines text. LOL

...
My point in all this is to show that social media is prone to emotional posts, tantrums and "walkouts". People post out of ignorance, they are guided by rumours, errors and misinformation. A single wrong word or phrase, intentional or not, can lead to a flame war. This, I believe, has become worse over the years. We now have posters (not all) who could be described as belonging to the "me-now" generation. They are not prepared to wait or to attempt to solve problems themselves - who needs problem solving skills when you have instant answers provided by Mr Google. This is the era of fast food, fast cars, fast Internet, fast women (I'm still waiting). The "gimme pigs" are one example of this - it is too hard and takes too long to learn to use GMax, or Blender or even (yuk) Sketchup and so much easier to ask others to do it all for you ("fast asset creation").

Well said!

 

[cressjl]

This thread is very enlightening...

Yes, I have thoroughly enjoyed this very frank discussion that has been helpful, insightful, and civil. T:ANE has greatly improved, and this forum is as well.

It's really no time right now for anyone to jump ship!

 

[napierdeltic]

I will re-iterate a previous statement I made some time ago that in my case, (the ECML oldyfication I`ve been working on), when complete, this backdated route will be sent direct to the original creators for their perusal as only they can decide whether or not it goes to the DLS.

We have spoken directly before regarding your work and releasing via ourselves and look forward to the day. This has not been the case in quite a number of occasions in persons uploading the ECML without permission. So I'm quite happy with how it works at present with no one being able to modifie the route. Because of the actions of a small amount of persons has sadly effected a larger proportion of users.

For those of you who have TANE you may have read in the introduction to the ECML that you have permission to modifie the ECML as long as the work is uploaded via ourselves. This im hoping will encourage the ECML to be modified to other time periods as Ive spokern about this on the forums before and if anyone wants to join our team. There are other team members modifying the ECML to other time periods at present.

Cheers
Stuart

ECML Project Leader

 

[ish6]

Putting on my rose tinted nostalgia glasses, the forums were different in the early days of Trainz. We were all discovering and exploring this new game, finding and sharing interesting things. There were fewer egos and no real experts since we were all newbies having fun. Too bad we now live at a time when it has become almost fashionable to disrespect a product and the people involved with it. What is really sad is how some almost revel in the scorn they can spread.

Trainz has improved and I would like to think the forums too. The depth of knowledge spread among the members is a great resource. I like to see it all in one place, being too lazy to have to remember where I saw an answer to a question I might have read about weeks or months ago. Plus, having to repeat the same Q&A in multiple forums is also a waste of time.

Hello Martin --

This is well said, sir!!!

especially your words:

"Putting on my rose tinted nostalgia glasses, the forums were different in the early days of Trainz. We were all discovering and exploring this new game, finding and sharing interesting things. There were fewer egos and no real experts since we were all newbies having fun."

I know what you mean, I saw it and live it!

And thinking back, we had our wars, the very few of them; But it never divided the forum. Folks back then never picked a side either; Instead, helped the people involve to find some kind of common ground, and it worked .... no one ever left!

Take Care
Ish

 

[BRClass66]

Hi,
Maybe some will return like me after a 4 year absence lol

Regards
Brad

 

[Ernest2d6]

I ordered T:ANE as soon as it came out but had no intention of using it until the bugs were hunted out. I log in on the forum to read the posts and check the progress of the game, but have not used the game at all so far. I still think more work is needed and wait for new updates to the code. MMO is important if you want to attract a younger crowd. I play CCP EVE-Online and I always dream building a railroad on some of those planets, maybe N3V should give them a call?

 

[martinvk]

I ordered T:ANE as soon as it came out but had no intention of using it until the bugs were hunted out. I log in on the forum to read the posts and check the progress of the game, but have not used the game at all so far. I still think more work is needed and wait for new updates to the code. ...

So you're going to rely on the opinions of others to decide if it will work for you? We've had people with all sorts of systems, some high end, some barely over the minimum specs and they have all reported varying degrees of success and failure, sometimes due to T:ANE, sometimes due to their computers. There are too many variables to know for sure until a specific computer with all of its other installed software is put to the test. Just because someone else says yea or nay is meaningless.

As for the actual look and feel of T:ANE, other people's opinions can help if you know that their tastes are similar enough to yours. Plus, you have to know where they are coming from. Do they have an axe to grind, are they truly independent, what is their bias, do they have a hidden agenda? And even then, a major bug to you might be a minor annoyance to others or a must have feature for you is just so much eye-candy for others. Learning to interpret reviews is an art in itself.

 

[Barry]

In reply to the title maybe they have changed to Blender Game Engine ship fans as the seas on Trainz wern't rough enough. B

Just to tie this post up as was not joking. Basic Blender maritime routes available for download from my site. 20 km
Also details of basic maritime content making in Blender such as dock, working locks, working tidal rise. Trainz is too complex for me now at my age and I used to make drivable boats and horse drawn barges in it. Ellesmere Port canal docks were made in Trainz and also in my Blender routes as working locks. I have no trainz routes or trains content for download.

http://blender3dandshiproutes.barrygandsw.co.uk/intro.html