What Should I do?

[Saturn]

I've currently got UTC, TRS2004x2 and TRS2006, After getting fed up with '06 through constant problems. I want to upgrade

Which should I upgrade to? (any version above '06)

I heard a rumour that TS2010 has the ECML kings cross to peterborough, is this true?

Thanks,
Oli

Ps. FYI, I had to buy a second copy of TRS2004 because the secondhand one I got off eBay the serial number was registered to another user so I couldn't download any content.

 

[Baureihe41]

http://www.TS2010.com

 

[geoffwilliams]

I've currently got UTC, TRS2004x2 and TRS2006, After getting fed up with '06 through constant problems. I want to upgrade

Which should I upgrade to? (any version above '06)

I heard a rumour that TS2010 has the ECML kings cross to peterborough, is this true?

Thanks,
Oli

Ps. FYI, I had to buy a second copy of TRS2004 because the secondhand one I got off eBay the serial number was registered to another user so I couldn't download any content.

TS2010 is probably the way to go, it will run most older content in compatibilty mode, and yes it has the ECML built in.

If you have a lot of older content then TS2009 will run it better.
Geoff

 

[AnalogOldguy]

My personal opinion, stay with 2004 (if you have SP4) and build it up.

As long as you have a first-class ticket and a fast internet connection.

I have built mine up with many fine UK, US, and Australian routes of much higher quality than the original 2004 stuff, and even the 2006 stuff! Check other websites also ..TPR , Checkrail, UKTrainz, UK Branch Lines, Obo's catalog, and others.

Many, many fine locos and rolling stock are available, with opening doors, nice interiors, moving parts, more realistic sound, and so on. A couple of ECML sections are available for 2004, though they are not my type of routes.

Download some routes like Urban Industrail and you will see some industries you never saw before ....

The sound in 2004 is very pleasing to me. While on my computer, the train sounds of 2006 SP1 and TC 1&2 still just disappear after a few minutes. (I Wasted my money on those) ....

Best of luck, whatever you decide! Bob P.

 

[johnwhelan]

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=50974

TS2010 with the S&C add on.

Cheerio John

 

[Saturn]

Does TS2010 support the Class 91?

 

[john259]

If you're a non-creator, or make layouts or activities, then I would advise staying with TRS2004 for now.

If you make content other than layouts or activities (i.e. you make rolling stock, buildings, etc) then you'll probably want to explore the radically different methods used in TS2010.

If it ever gets enough native mode content made for it and TS2011 doesn't make it obsolete, TS2010 could come to rival TRS2004, although even then having a variant of CMP would put me off it.

John
(Personal opinion not necessarily representing RBR)

 

[johnwhelan]

If you're a non-creator, or make layouts or activities, then I would advise staying with TRS2004 for now.

If you make content other than layouts or activities (i.e. you make rolling stock, buildings, etc) then you'll probably want to explore the radically different methods used in TS2010.

If it ever gets enough native mode content made for it and TS2011 doesn't make it obsolete, TS2010 could come to rival TRS2004, although even then having a variant of CMP would put me off it.

John
(Personal opinion not necessarily representing RBR)

Are you saying you don't feel the S&C add on for TS2010 doesn't add enough value and people should stay with the older steam loco engine specs?

In which case I must respect your opinion but there is some very good content in version TC3 and above that you miss out on by staying with TRS2004.

Cheerio John

 

[john259]

Are you saying you don't feel the S&C add on for TS2010 doesn't add enough value and people should stay with the older steam loco engine specs?

These are value judgements. I tend to look at things from the point of view of someone with extremely limited technical knowledge of 3D asset creation but who enjoys driving and creating GameScript scenarios. So for me TRS2004 does exactly what I want reliably and consistently, while a single layout isn't enough reason to pay full price for a new version of Trainz, and as a mainly DCC driver tweaks to the steam engine specifications are an obscure irrelevance. Of course others will feel differently.

For me, TS2010's lack of support for true scenarios, lack at this stage of a significant amount of native mode material, incompatibility with de facto asset standards (a single incompatibility breaks a layout or an activity and I lack the very high level of expertise needed to fix such problems), use of a variant of CMP which I hate largely because I don't understand it, and the various apparently serious problems reported on this forum by some people are all very disconcerting. However, the layers feature in TS2010 is potentially very interesting.

I might be wrong, but I suspect that the vast majority of Trainz users never explore any aspect of 3D model creation other than perhaps briefly dabbling with PaintShed and Surveyor. For someone who wants to drive trains and run scenarios, TRS2004 remains the best option. For someone who wants to make native mode 3D models TS2010 is obviously the best - but how many such people are there - not many left now I think judging by how quiet TrainzDev is.

John
(Not necessarily representing the views of RBR)

 

[johnwhelan]

These are value judgements. I tend to look at things from the point of view of someone with extremely limited technical knowledge of 3D asset creation but who enjoys driving and creating GameScript scenarios. So for me TRS2004 does exactly what I want reliably and consistently, while a single layout isn't enough reason to pay full price for a new version of Trainz, and as a mainly DCC driver tweaks to the steam engine specifications are an obscure irrelevance. Of course others will feel differently.

For me, TS2010's lack of support for true scenarios, lack at this stage of a significant amount of native mode material, incompatibility with de facto asset standards (a single incompatibility breaks a layout or an activity and I lack the very high level of expertise needed to fix such problems), use of a variant of CMP which I hate largely because I don't understand it, and the various apparently serious problems reported on this forum by some people are all very disconcerting. However, the layers feature in TS2010 is potentially very interesting.

I might be wrong, but I suspect that the vast majority of Trainz users never explore any aspect of 3D model creation other than perhaps briefly dabbling with PaintShed and Surveyor. For someone who wants to drive trains and run scenarios, TRS2004 remains the best option. For someone who wants to make native mode 3D models TS2010 is obviously the best - but how many such people are there - not many left now I think judging by how quiet TrainzDev is.

John
(Not necessarily representing the views of RBR)

The comment was purely on the quality of the content available in the TS2010 add ons, its very good. I don't think you need to be a content creator to appreciate the smoke and sounds now being synced to the wheel rotations for steam engines.

I know I enjoy seeing the animated brakes on vans and wagons in TC3 and above and I think others will to.

If you are into UK railways and I suspect since the originator is from the UK then for content TS2010 and S&C add on are by far the best way to go. As a content creator for various versions I know some people have problems with TRS2004 crashing when running some of my items the scripts are not as well protected. If you only run by items then everything works but in certain combinations with other assets the scripts can over write each other and cause problems.

Besides which you need to spend a lot more money on the computer to get the same frames rates using TRS2004.

Cheerio John

 

[john259]

in certain combinations with other assets the scripts can over write each other and cause problems.

Fully tested material such as RBR offers does not break TRS2004. Bad assets can do so of course but I very much doubt if the "scripts can overwrite each other" theory is valid.

Besides which you need to spend a lot more money on the computer to get the same frames rates using TRS2004.

According to some posts on here it's the reverse of that. Why people's experiences differ so much is a great mystery to me.

John

 

[johnwhelan]

Fully tested material such as RBR offers does not break TRS2004. Bad assets can do so of course but I very much doubt if the "scripts can overwrite each other" theory is valid.

John

Except I'm unable to reproduce the problem on a clean install with just my assets and one of the documented enhancements for the later versions is more robustness on how the scripts are handled. These same assets run fine in TC3 / TS2009 by the way.

I think what you are saying is a specially selected subset of TRS2004 assets work together and with that statement I will agree with you, unfortunately it also limits you in what is available.

Cheerio John

 

[john259]

I think what you are saying is a selected subset of TRS2004 works

No, what I'm saying is that AFAIK all of TRS2004 works. A subset of the assets on DLS and fansites works with TRS2004, and a different but overlapping subset works with each of the other versions of Trainz, for various reasons. I wouldn't like to guess to relative sizes of these subsets.

Of course, anyone offering an asset on DLS or a fansite which involves the use of dependencies needs to thoroughly test those dependencies on each version of Trainz that the parent asset's creator says it is compatible with.

John

 

[Saturn]

Well, I create routes. But not content. Justs re-skins.

Does trs2006 content work with 04?

 

[johnwhelan]

Well, I create routes. But not content. Justs re-skins.

Does trs2006 content work with 04?

TRS2004 (2.4) will run assets with a version number of 2.4 or less.

TRS2006 has a version number of 2.6 so TRS2004 will not accept them. Various people have modified TRS2006 items to run in TRS2004.

Basically TS2010 is capable of running error free content from all versions and will run most items that have errors in in compatibility mode if needed.

Scenery objects in general don't use any advanced features and can be used in any version of Trainz. They will run in versions of Trainz prior to even TRS2004. The exception is scenery objects with normal mapping where texture is used rather than polys but it gives the illusion of extra polys. TRS2004 supports this but there are some visible bugs when used. Vinnybarb is the master of scenery objects with normal mapping. Some scenery objects rely on large texture files for detail, these are better suited to TS2009/10 as these two programs use a special texture compression which reduces the performance impact by reducing them to 25% of the original size without any visible degradation.

Locomotives and rolling stock TRS2004 with SP4 was the first fairly stable version that offered a number of new features. Version 2.4.

After that TRS2006 and TC3 came along with basically cleaning up bugs in TRS2004 and there were a few changes made but nothing major apart from dropping TRS2004 scenarios. Whether scenarios would be important to you I couldn't say. I must confess I've never used one to my knowledge so to my mind they aren't critical. TC3 added much better steam support and has a lot of good quality UK content in it, which is also available in the TS2010 S&C add on. Have a look at the TC3 content www.trainzclassics.co.uk and www.settleandcarlisle.co.uk.

TRS2006 (2.6) will run error free content that has a version number of 2.4 (TRS2004) content as well as TRS2006 content. TC3 again can run anything at 2.8 level or below.

These days with the absence of LMS_MAN from the payware side of things the S&C add on is actually one of the few sources of high quality UK steam locos.

TS2010 has stricter error checking than earlier versions but does allow better use of hardware. There are many trees for example that use blended alpha which is displayed using the cpu. The cpu is a major bottleneck for Trainz, especially versions TC3 and below where everything is designed to run on a single core cpu. The design change in TS2009/10 was to run multiple threads and support spreading the load across all the cores of a quad core cpu. It also pushed a lot of the work down to the GPU which is better suited to the work.

For complicated layouts Trainz loves memory, TS2009/10 under a 64 bit operating system allows Trainz to use up to 4 gigs of memory compared to 2 gigs under 32 bit XP or Vista. TRS2004 is limited to 2 gigs of memory.

Some payware vendors are moving into TS2009/10 some are not. www.lafranceentrains.com is interesting because of their high quality items which are now being created for TS2009/10. http://www.lafranceentrains.com/lab...com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=112

Note also that John259 is involved in Razorback on the payware side
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=51410 so he may not be completely unbiased when suggesting you stay with TRS2004.

Summation to me content is more important, to others other things are more important.

Cheerio John

 

[Saturn]

so I'm better off with TS2010?

 

[johnwhelan]

so I'm better off with TS2010?

That would be my recommendation.

Cheerio John

 

[epicmek]

I'm on your side Mr. Whelan♦

Quote: "Summation to me content is more important, to others other things are more important."

John IMHO I think you are missing the point. Minds are like parachutes . . . they only work when they are open.

Cheerio Martin♦:hehe:

 

[meatloaf747]

so I'm better off with TS2010?

TS2010 would be my recommendation as well. The EMCL route is worth the purchase price alone. (once you include all the other features and routes, your getting a real bargain). Add to that Murchison 2 add-on & S&C add-on with the latest spec'ed steam locos and it really rocks. I say, why drive an old vintage Model T Ford when you can drive the latest Ferrari...

I have ABSOLUTELY nothing against 2004 SP4. It brought me 100's of hours of enjoyment. (I still have it & 06 on one of my computers). Once 2006 came out, I moved to it and never looked back. TRS2006 has brought me 1000's of hours of enjoyment. (warts & all). Still spend some time on it. (06).
When 2009 came out, it was time to move on again. Now that 2010 is out, what a breath of fresh air that brings to the Trainz Sim. I've come to really like "speed-trees" and I'm getting a much better frame rate on 2010, (particularly for most of the older routes, that I ever got on 2004).

The 04 versus 06 debate still goes on to this day. (now 04 - 2010). In 10 - 20 years from now we are still going to have the 2004 die-hard's that will still be saying TRS2004 SP4 is still the best Trainz Sim ever made. And good luck to them. They are entitled to have their opinions.
Me, I want to see Auran continue to push the boundaries with the SIM. Anything animated like speedtrees helps bring more realizing to it.

Question. re; Future development !!! - Will Auran get it right first time out of the blocks. Probably not, so we will have to continue to accept that patches/service packs will be required? - Unfortunately "YES" - That's just the nature of the beast. (those that where around in 2003 - 2004 will vividly remember that it took FOUR service packs to get 04 nearly right)... To me, 04 needed a SP5, which didn't eventuate. That's why I moved to 06 so quickly, (without regrets). Particularly after 06 SP1...

One other foot note; If all the Trainz community stuck with "older versions" of Trainz, and no one - very few people purchased the latest, Auran would soon realize that it was no longer viable to continue to develop the Trainz Sim and would cease all development... (You don't have to be a rock scientist to work that one out). Auran would simply downsize and just continue to market other software companies products/games... AND SURVIVE... Classic example; (MSTS) Microsoft stop development, downsized and survived. :hehe:

As the old saying goes; "Auran", you don't have too like them, love them or hate them". BUT if you want new Trainz's ver's to be around in the future, you/we will need to continue to support them. - Something to ponder on... Happy Trainzing.
Cheers, Mac...

 

[john259]

Note also that John259 is involved in Razorback on the payware side
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=51410 so he may not be completely unbiased when suggesting you stay with TRS2004.

While for technical reasons we recommend using TRS2004 we also support TRS2006 and we're researching the possibility of being able to create material for TS2010 native mode.

John