VR C class "stuck in a tight curve????"

[frenchman]

Hi Trainz poeple,
This is my first post after 7 years of being a member , The strangest thing is happening on my route. We are probably all familiar with the (built in)seaport and it's operation, I have a large marshalling yard on one side of the port where trains are sent to wait for acces to the two tracks through the seaport for unloading. Each track continues its curve at the exit of the port as a loop and returns via junctions back to the marshaling yard where the trains are sent to await departure. The curve radius is the same as that in the port lumber, chip, etc track at the exit. THE PROBLEM , the VR C Class diesel C501 , C506 [FONT=Verdana, Arial]kuid:193148:1 Kuid:[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial]193148:2 appear to be getting stuck in the tight turn whilst unloading lumber. So far other loco,s V line N class, V line G class will negotiate this curve and finish loading without a problem. The C class, will stop right in the centre of the curve,will sit there under AI control as though waiting,but the engine is revving, Change to manual control DCC. It will rev up (plenty of smoke) 8th notch and its sitting there full revs.
It won't move. Had to get the trusty GM from the roundhouse and couple and after some pushing and shoving finally dragged the C class back to the yards for a reprimand. Am I missing something? . I haven't come across this but I can believe there is a minimum radius this loco will handle. Can someone shed a little light here. I have done a bit of looking but the forums opinion would be appreciated.

Frenchman

System details for reference. Ts2009 all SP's applied build 3.3 , Pentium core 2 Duo at 3.0 ghz ,4 gig ddr2 in dual mode , Galaxy 550ti nvidia 1 gig G-ram. Runs pretty nicely, running DX9.0c ,No apparent Hardware or software problems.
[/FONT]

 

[Euphod]

I read a post about this a long time ago, but not particular to this locomotive. Just thought you may want to know it does happen.

 

[narrowgauge]

Trainz adds a value for friction on corners which I would guess depends on the radius of the corner. this frictional value affects all the rolling stock. Try increasing the power of the loco to see if this cures the problem.

Peter

 

[llebrez]

Jup: I have some engines that exhibit the same problem. If there is a friction coheficient, how can it be changed? I hope it can be done at the config file.

 

[Azervich]

The friction looks right to me

  surface-area                          80
  moving-friction-coefficient           0.03
  air-drag-coefficient                  0.00017

I've made many e-specs and some of mine have higher friction than that and they haven't gotten stuck on tight curves, that one the C class has represents a roller bearing friction.

    0                                   "330"
    4.1                                 "275.8"
    8.1                                 "137.9"
    12.2                                "91.9"
    16.3                                "69"
    20.4                                "55.2"
    24.4                                "46"
    28.5                                "39.4"
    32.6                                "34.5"
    36.7                                "0"
  }

The notch 8 tractive effort is the same as the real one, 330kn as seen on this

http://victorianrailways.net/motive power/diagrams/cdiedia.gif

How ever you said you use DCC? this is the only tags dcc uses and does not use tractive efforts or notches.

  resistance                            1.7
  maxspeed                              35
  max-accel                             6000
  max-decel                             80000

-Aaron

 

[frenchman]

thanks for replies - keep em coming

thanks for you prompt replies - ,

being new to content creation I am assuming that increasing the engine power is editing the engine spec kuid ?

I have tried using a different enginespec which is from one of the locos which can negotiate this curve , and It works..

I have cloned an engine spec , now which parameters to edit ?

Any one

 

[Azervich]

Hi Frenchman,

can you post the kuid for the e-spec you use that gets around the curve?
I'd like too see what the difference is, might be able to find out why it gets around and not the C class, have you tried Cab mode? most of the e-specs respond better in Cab Mode, DCC can be tricky to setup and run.

Edit:

Just noticed a mistake in the C class E-spec.
Should have 289kn T.E @ 23.4kph, that's a speed of 6.4m/s in the config.txt, but it has 275kn T.E @ 14kph that's 4.1m/s.

-Aaron

 

[frenchman]

Thanks Azervich ,
I am looking at these parameters and they are the same as you have shown . I must admit , the problem is weird but repeatable.
for reference I usually use AI control and DCC when I have to intervene. The first time I noticed this , the train had stopped at this point , dumped its schedule and was sitting there idling . I issued commands , it moved slightly , engine revs increased but no real train movement , Switched to DCC and same - either direction - revving but no movement. I actually did couple the Gm and manhandled the stuck loco off the curve , and it came back to life , Generally the VR C Class (this one) seems a little sluggish at acceleration , otherwise well behaved.. How real/unreal can you get!!!

 

[frenchman]

Please stand by... getting what you requested

 

[frenchman]

VLine NClass Enginespec <KUID2:103475:100152:1> is the engine spec I substituted which makes it work..

 

[Azervich]

Hi Frenchman,

Zec has a few differences in some of the tags

  resistance                            1.5
  maxspeed                              37.3
  max-accel                             4275
  max-decel                             52000

Try those values on the C class, after editing the e-spec make sure to remove and re-add the loco so it resets the physic change, allot of people forget to do that and have weird results when they load trainz again.

-Aaron

 

[frenchman]

When you say remove and re-add the loco , What exactly do you mean -sorry

 

[Azervich]

Load session surveyor, use the delete function to remove the loco's and re-add the locos after deleting, then save the session and load the session up and play it

Cheers.
-Aaron

 

[frenchman]

Thanks for your help Aaron,
Will do these things , But I must Cut the grass now. will post results soon. Just to throw a cat in the pidgeons , I was just checking the curve radius at the seaport exit (small curve near lumber,Where the C class stops) and noticed there is a place in this curve which shows as 20m radius. After doing some testing with other locos which were all O.K. . I drove the C class at 7kph through the curve and had no problems . Only if you stop the loco at this point it will not restart. I zoomed right in and looked under the loco at the bogies and the outer front wheels (both ends have climbed out of the rails) . I have derailment turned off ,so perhaps if it was turned on the loco would derail. It is as though the bogie unit can not pivot enough, or the 4.? meters between the two outer wheels in each set is too much for the radius , Either way I am surprised this is happening .
I will get a screenshot to show this happening. At this point I think there is no need to alter any loco settings(other than the error you pointed out) because this problem only exists at this point in the route and I guess this is accurate simulation. I will just have to use a different loco for this job. Thanks to all for your input..