Video card upgrade question
- Thread starter gt350
- Start date
That would be a nice upgrade. Like night and day. I went from a 1080 TI to a 3080 and that was a big jump. Yours will be even bigger. I still don't run full stop on all the graphics sliders in order to keep the heat down in my PC which is an unrelated issue, but this extra power makes for smooth rendering.
2995Valliant
Well-known member
What are the specs of the rest of the PC? If the processor isn't up to it, you won't get the benefit.
I've just moved from a i5-9600k/GTX3060Ti to a "new" rig (built partly out of second hand bits) with a 12700F and a RTX 4070.
The difference is massive - I have some heavily detailed routes, and where I would sometimes be seeing frame rates in the low 20s with most settings on high, I'm now getting a minimum of 30 fps with everything set to Ultra. DLC such as the S&C runs at a steady 59/60fps with zero stutter.
According to Bottleneck Calculator the 4070 was the the most powerful graphics card I could run with the 12700, but Trainz uses things slightly differently: The GPU is running at 80% and above, and the 12700 is only running around 35% so with hindsight I could have put a 4070Ti in.
I've got 32GB of ram, but Trainz never seems to push the total system usage much over 11.
I've just moved from a i5-9600k/GTX3060Ti to a "new" rig (built partly out of second hand bits) with a 12700F and a RTX 4070.
The difference is massive - I have some heavily detailed routes, and where I would sometimes be seeing frame rates in the low 20s with most settings on high, I'm now getting a minimum of 30 fps with everything set to Ultra. DLC such as the S&C runs at a steady 59/60fps with zero stutter.
According to Bottleneck Calculator the 4070 was the the most powerful graphics card I could run with the 12700, but Trainz uses things slightly differently: The GPU is running at 80% and above, and the 12700 is only running around 35% so with hindsight I could have put a 4070Ti in.
I've got 32GB of ram, but Trainz never seems to push the total system usage much over 11.
Thanks for the tip about Bottleneck Calculator. I went there and was surprised to find it thought my NVIDIA 1080 was good, but that my Intel i7-8700 CPU was actually too slow for the 1080! So I guess if I am going to upgrade, I will need to upgrade processor AND GPU. I did not realize that before. Since I bought this as a package I assume Dell is not really concerned with matching CPUs to GPUs.
Some negative opinions on bottleneck calculator use (not mine!)
www.xda-developers.com
Rob.
Why you should never use PC bottleneck calculators
PC bottleneck calculators give you tons of info - here's why you should trust none of it
www.xda-developers.com
Rob.
2995Valliant
Well-known member
It probably doesn't - as I pointed out, for Trainz I could have used a more powerful GPU than Bottleneck Calculator suggests.
I just happened to find a second hand 12700 and a Z790 board at a price I couldn't resist on a certain well known online auction site
RetroRails12
Active member
make sure to Upgrade your Motherboard, CPU and Power Supply to handle the 4070... if the PSU is underpowered it is a Fire Hazard.... you need 1k watt PSU for the 4070.... its a Total Upgrade to thee entire system...... too little of a system and you could have a Fire in the process if your computer is not up to snuff! There are plenty of Videos out of this such a thing happening... If not taken care of you could end up burning your house down...... If you system is 10 years old You might as well spend the money if your spending it on the 4070 To build you a New PC that can handle the 4070 and its power hungry GPU.....
2995Valliant
Well-known member
Each to their own, but for me that highly critical article overlooks that a great deal of those warnings are offered on Bottleneck Calculator's own site - it can only ever be a rough guide as there are so many individual different real world scenarios. Personally I'd be far more wary of following their recommendations to trust journalists and magazine articles when a great number of those (and Youtubers and "influencers") are paid by vested interests to promote their products!Some negative opinions on bottleneck calculator use (not mine!)
Why you should never use PC bottleneck calculators
PC bottleneck calculators give you tons of info - here's why you should trust none of it
Rob.
Bottleneck calculator did however prompt me to check my old system before trying to upgrade the GPU in that. Despite many, many PC's for sale with 9600 (or older) CPU's paired with 4070 series cards, Bottleneck Calculator put me on to the fact (subsequently proven by Windows Performance monitor) that as I was thrashing the CPU flat out in Trainz, putting a better GPU in my old system was not going to get me far.
This is the kind of thing that I've noticed myself with these calculators with some that have some kind of leaning towards specific products as if they are weighted. This calculator appears to be more agnostic than the others.
In the past I've used the power calculator from EVGA to size a power supply for my old PC. That worked out since I had planned on using a far bigger power supply than necessary which would be a total waste all around.
2995Valliant
Well-known member
I think we've already covered the importance of matching the CPU to the GPU.......
As for power supplies, you've been reading too much nonsense on the internet. Even an overclocked 12/13/14th gen CPU won't use more than 400w, so in your scenario with a 4070 drawing a maximum of 200w, what do you need the other 400watts for?
You categorically don't need a 1000w PSU for a 4070/12700: I'm running with an 850w Gold plus which barely breaks a sweat when everything is running flat out. A 750w would have been fine, but I wanted a bit of headroom so that a) the fans aren't running hard all the time, and b) I can upgrade the GPU in the future.
At least as important, if not more so, than the output of the PSU is its quality, both for longevity of the rest of the components and the risk of the smoke escaping. That said, before anyone starts panicking about their generic PSUs I don't recall reading about a great number of house fires caused by overstressed gaming PCs - the Lithium batteries in the cheap e-bikes usually go first......
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Bottleneck Calculator says I might have a 10.1% chance of a bottleneck in my i7 11700k CPU with a Nvidia 3070 Ti, with 'Intensive Graphics' selected. It says my GPU is too powerful for my CPU, so should I be worried - I'm not! Should I rush out and buy myself a new M/B with a newer CPU, I don't think so! I've concluded that it's just a meaningless figure! So, each to their own, as you say.
Incidentally, with 'General Tasks or 'Processor Intensive Tasks' selected, the bottleneck percentage is higher than 10%. So what is a person to believe about such a calculator!
Rob.
Should have mention I plan on a new desktop mine is too old to update {10 years)
2995Valliant
Well-known member
What it's telling you is pretty obvious: that your graphics card would probably perform better with a more powerful CPU according to a certain set of tests which will give an indication of how it will perform in real life, and it doesn't claim to tell you anymore than that, so I don't understand what you are getting so worked up about?
It's also blinding obvious that the CPU will be more of a bottleneck in scenarios where the bulk of the load is on the CPU, surely?
Given that these figures are meaningless to you how, when you buy a new computer, do you intend to divine the best setup for your needs?
I can guess your answer to that based on previous experience but in my opinion the real world experience of those doing the same/similar is the best guide, which is precisely why I offered my experience with an identical card to the OP. Bottleneck Calculator was an aside with the caveat that it wasn't entirely appropriate for Trainz before you interjected, seemingly with a crusade against it.
It's also blinding obvious that the CPU will be more of a bottleneck in scenarios where the bulk of the load is on the CPU, surely?
Given that these figures are meaningless to you how, when you buy a new computer, do you intend to divine the best setup for your needs?
I can guess your answer to that based on previous experience but in my opinion the real world experience of those doing the same/similar is the best guide, which is precisely why I offered my experience with an identical card to the OP. Bottleneck Calculator was an aside with the caveat that it wasn't entirely appropriate for Trainz before you interjected, seemingly with a crusade against it.
Thank you for that article RobD. There was a link in it on how to tell which to upgrade first, and I was surprised when I got there that all they showed was task manager performance page! I had never thought to just check task manager to see what was working the hardest while using Trainz, but I certainly will try having it up on one screen while using Trainz on the other and see what results I see. It shows CPU, GPU and disc activity so it should give a clue.
2995Valliant
Well-known member
Performance monitor is very useful: That proved to me that no matter what the army of "knowledgeables" on reddit etc. said, my old 9600k was operating flat out to run Trainz with my 3060Ti and putting a more powerful card in existing was not the answer.
Benchmark Calculator implied that I'd see a a fairly decent gain in performance from the 3060Ti just by pairing it with a more powerful CPU, and I'd intended to try it just to see how accurate that was, but my eldest son laid claim to the 3060 before that happened
No advice or smart articles will help you upgrade hardware except for yourself.
Just before starting the game, run any software capable of graphically displaying the load on each component (CPU, GPU, etc.)
And you will see with your own eyes that you have 100% loaded, this is the weak point in all the equipment.
You can use the built-in task manager for this purpose, but I prefer a more detailed HWNFO: https://forums.auran.com/threads/a-note-on-heat.177664/post-2015404
I have done a lot of testing with various routes and graphics settings of the TRS19 , and I will note the main thing, the game has a big bias towards CPU utilization
unlike any other games, therefore, no general tips on optimizing hardware for games from the Internet not will help.
You need Intel 8 cores minimum to have a confident 60 FPS on any route with minimal graphics game settings.
Just before starting the game, run any software capable of graphically displaying the load on each component (CPU, GPU, etc.)
And you will see with your own eyes that you have 100% loaded, this is the weak point in all the equipment.
You can use the built-in task manager for this purpose, but I prefer a more detailed HWNFO: https://forums.auran.com/threads/a-note-on-heat.177664/post-2015404
I have done a lot of testing with various routes and graphics settings of the TRS19 , and I will note the main thing, the game has a big bias towards CPU utilization
unlike any other games, therefore, no general tips on optimizing hardware for games from the Internet not will help.
You need Intel 8 cores minimum to have a confident 60 FPS on any route with minimal graphics game settings.
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I completely agree, I'll just add that excessive power to the PSU is even harmful. There are a lot of different protections in modern PSUs and they all work in a certain load range.
If something unexpected happens to the hardware at a load of 10-20%, then no protection will simply work.
There are a bunch of online Power Supply Calculator to determine the required power of the PSU.
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You can also use pcpartpicker for that.