ULOAD to DLS v.s. SHARING a route

[edion2]

UPLOAD to DLS v.s. SHARING a route

Hello,

I'm on TS2009.

No route will include any Payware as part of the route or Sessions what so ever. I know you can't do that either for uploading or sharing.

I have never uploaded anything . . . yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my line of thinking.

To upload a route, I need to obtain permission from EVERY object that was used to create the route and sessions? OR . . . Do I need permissions ONLY from authors of assets that I have modified?

SHARING :
The main reason I was thinking of "sharing", rather than uploading, is to avoid the time required for obtaining all the required permission necessary for UPLOADING.

The method of sharing WILL NOT be down-loadable from any site. I was thinking of DVD through the mail by request (no charge, other than the cost of stamps).

My series of routes will require a minimum of 3Ghz Core 2 Duo CPU, 4MB Ram and Nvidia GTX280 with 1MB video RAM on 32-bit XP . . . or better. Some parts of the route will drop to less than 10fps. On a 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo with 9600GT card, the same area drops to less than 5fps . . . which is unacceptable.

Not many would want to download a complex route like mine anyway. I will probably contact a few people who provide "free ware" to review my routes and to spread the word that its available by request through the mail.

I am thinking about "release by request" in 10 to 12 months. I would include a very detailed "route manual" for the sessions . . . with screen shots. So far, most of the sessions have been averaging 2 to 3 hours each. I'm hoping for at least two dozen sessions that run accross 1, 2 or 3 of the routes in the series using I-Portals.

Any comments about my line of thinking for "sharing" ?

Any tips or suggestions from "upload people" is welcome.

Thanks

 

[paulzmay]

Firstly, you can include payware in a route, but please mention what payware is required in the description.

Secondly you don't need to ask to use items in a route uploaded to the DLS. The contributors list you see on the DLS is generated automatically. If you modify an asset on your machine, then you would have to upload it with your own kuid number (with permission) to the DLS or elsewhere. If you don't do this, other users will only have the original version of the item when they load your route. The important thing to remember is that no content is uploaded with a route - the map only contains a list of item kuids and where to put them. This is why you can use payware in a route - you aren't re-distributing it.

If you release on disk, then users will still have to download the content you used in the map elsewhere, as most creators don't like their content being shared other than through the DLS and/or their own websites.

Personally I'd upload to the DLS, but make sure that you give minimum PC specs in the description to avoid disappointment from those whose computers are not up to scratch...

Paul

 

[edion2]

Paul,

Thank you. That helps clear up some of the "upload" fog I was lost in.

So . . . let me see if I understand this correctly.

If I upload a route to DLS . . . it is not done as a CDP file?

Is someone going to check kuid # availability before it is actually made available on DLS?

Before I understood the reason to "clone then modify", I made modifications to some "built-in" assets. I guess this could be a problem when a route is uploaded since the subsequent user's computer will "install" the unmodified version of the asset into his route.

There are many commodities, rolling stock, locomotives and objects that I "cloned and modified" (which bears my kuid#) would need permissions from the authors. Most are minor changes like how bright something is or a simple change to to "my preferred" track to match the scenery better. Does each modified items with my kuid# have to be uploaded separately?

Clarification on SHARING please.
I assumed that a CDP file burned on a DVD (in the case of a route) contained everything that was used to create the route and the sessions.

So you are saying that even as a CDP file, the person recieving the DVD will still have to have the same asset on his computer? Then how does he get items that I "cloned & modified" with my kuid# ?

Sorry for so many questions. There must be a "manual" somewhere about preparing a route for uploading.

Thanks for your help.

Ed

 

[angelah]

Uploading

Paul,

Thank you. That helps clear up some of the "upload" fog I was lost in.

So . . . let me see if I understand this correctly.

If I upload a route to DLS . . . it is not done as a CDP file?

Is someone going to check kuid # availability before it is actually made available on DLS?

Before I understood the reason to "clone then modify", I made modifications to some "built-in" assets. I guess this could be a problem when a route is uploaded since the subsequent user's computer will "install" the unmodified version of the asset into his route.

There are many commodities, rolling stock, locomotives and objects that I "cloned and modified" (which bears my kuid#) would need permissions from the authors. Most are minor changes like how bright something is or a simple change to to "my preferred" track to match the scenery better. Does each modified items with my kuid# have to be uploaded separately?

Clarification on SHARING please.
I assumed that a CDP file burned on a DVD (in the case of a route) contained everything that was used to create the route and the sessions.

So you are saying that even as a CDP file, the person recieving the DVD will still have to have the same asset on his computer? Then how does he get items that I "cloned & modified" with my kuid# ?

Sorry for so many questions. There must be a "manual" somewhere about preparing a route for uploading.

Thanks for your help.

Ed

Hello Ed,
I Upload quite a few routes and although I use 2004 the cdp principle is the same because I also have TC3 and cdp's load into that through CMP.
All that is uploaded is the map (mainly) and a few other small files like OBS, BMK, Trk and a txt which is the config, the GND file is the biggest, but no assets at all.

If you have modified an asset for your own personal use then it is not necessary to ask permission from the original creator, but if you intend to use them within a route for distribution then it is necessary.
Because you have changed the asset it will not be on the DS, only on your PC. Once you have permission then you will need to Upload each asset you have changed in any way whatsoever.

Putting your route onto a CD is exactly the same as Uploading to the DS, it will NOT include any assets, just the files shown above. If that route includes a Session then the end user will also need to go and download from the DS any stock, if they do not already have it.
This is why you will need (a) to get permission to use a modified asset and (b) Upload each one to the DS, so that an end user whether downloading your route from the DS or a CD, can go and get them.

A lesson here, if you intend to Upload a route don't make uneccesary changes to assets because although you might like them with the modifications other people may not, and that is apart from the trouble you cause yourself needing to get permissions from quite a few folk. That's all fine if you only wish to run that route on your own PC, but not for others.
In future use standard assets for a route you intend to send to the DS or on a CD and altered ones for your own use, it is far simpler.

To prep a route for Uploading you only need to finish it, save as a cdp and send it to Auran, simple. If any assets are not built-in a list of contributors will be generated at Auran's end and their names shown below the download options on the download page in recognition of their efforts, you need do nothing else. But you cannot just change people's work as and when, I am afraid that is not allowed for obvious reasons.

Angela

 

[paulzmay]

I'm not exactly sure how TS2009 uploads to the DLS, hopefully someone else can fill that in. All my uploading is through TRS2004, so I'm not too familiar.

Is someone going to check kuid # availability before it is actually made available on DLS?

Not quite sure what you mean by this. The DLS checks for availability of the items you have used in a route, and sends an e-mail to the creators of any items not found. You will also receive an e-mail telling you what items are not on the DLS. This does not, however, prevent or delay the upload.

The items you have cloned would need to be uploaded, and would need the original creators permission to do so (unless already given in the licence conditions). Items that are simply modified will appear on other users computers in their original form.

Each of your modified items will have to be uploaded (it won't be automatic). I suspect you can do this in a single drag and drop operation, but you'll have to check.

If you save a CDP of the route, it only includes the route. You can, however, select as many items as you like and save them all to CDP. The thing to do would be to save the route and sessions and all of your modified items to the CDP and burn them to CD. Note that you still need permission to distribute the modified items (and this may well not be forthcoming, especially for this kind of ditribution). Other required items would then be downloaded by the user using CMP (unless you can get permission to re-distribute the dependencies from their original creators - not very likely).

Hopefully this clarifies things a bit. I can't emphasise enough how seriously most creators take their right to decide how their content is distributed and/or modified; some are really relaxed, but most have at least some conditions.

Paul

 

[angelah]

Paul

Paul wrote :- Hopefully this clarifies things a bit. I can't emphasise enough how seriously most creators take their right to decide how their content is distributed and/or modified; some are really relaxed, but most have at least some conditions.

Ed,
Here, here, I agree completely. Creators spend a lot of time and effort making an asset and rightly do not wish to have them altered willy-nilly and then distributed by somebody else. No offence meant, but you can surely see that point.

You do seem to be able to use a 3D program so why not make your own assets (not modify existing ones) for use on your own routes, many people do, then there would be no problem once you have Uploaded them and people would have to ask you for permission the modify.

And like Paul, I do not use 2009, but assume to process is much the same as with TC3. Perhaps a kind soul running 09 would come forth and explain the exact process for sending a cdp to Auran?

Angela

 

[PerRock]

Before I understood the reason to "clone then modify", I made modifications to some "built-in" assets. I guess this could be a problem when a route is uploaded since the subsequent user's computer will "install" the unmodified version of the asset into his route.

There are many commodities, rolling stock, locomotives and objects that I "cloned and modified" (which bears my kuid#) would need permissions from the authors. Most are minor changes like how bright something is or a simple change to to "my preferred" track to match the scenery better. Does each modified items with my kuid# have to be uploaded separately?

Auran has stated that Built-in items that contain the username "Auran" (generally a -1: KUID) do not require permission from them to upload your modified versions.

peter

 

[sauleve]

You can, however, select as many items as you like and save them all to CDP.

Paul

Thats what I need to know please. I'd like to be able to bundle up the route, sessions and any custom (i.e non-standard Trainz installation) items into the CDP.

A secondary question, is I'm stuck with a script error (at least it errors in 2009) after I tried to use an old style van from download station

Ex_lms_12t_steel_van : Thread Exception: ER_Exception, line 744, file ex_lms_12t_steel_van.gs (1)

I deleted it from the route/session but the error remains, is there a way to expunge it?

 

[angelah]

A bundle

Thats what I need to know please. I'd like to be able to bundle up the route, sessions and any custom (i.e non-standard Trainz installation) items into the CDP.

A secondary question, is I'm stuck with a script error (at least it errors in 2009) after I tried to use an old style van from download station

Ex_lms_12t_steel_van : Thread Exception: ER_Exception, line 744, file ex_lms_12t_steel_van.gs (1)

I deleted it from the route/session but the error remains, is there a way to expunge it?

Bundling all the items you have altered without permission onto a CD does NOT mean you can then distribute them as far as I know. You will still need permission from each and every content creator who's work you have edited and you have placed on said CD.

If you have it then the total contents of the CD will be useful for anybody wanting those assets because they are all right there. But they will still need to be installed seperately and singly, just like getting each one from the DS.

Angela

 

[edion2]

Angela, Paul and Peter,

Thank you for your help. Indeed the Upload fog is starting to clear.

I did not create any new "original assets" of my own . . . yet. I hope to do that in the future. Everything I used to create the route and sessions have been either downloaded from DLS or was downloaded from Freeware site. Most 97% of them were used without modifications . . . which is fortunate for me.

Its just recently that I started thinking about making my creation available. Once its nearly finished, I will probably do some "Beta testing" to get opinions and suggestions from a few people to see if the routes are worth Uploading or Sharing thru DVD. I would first need to find people with computer system similar or better than my computer. By the time I reach my point of "nearly complete", maybe more people will have new or improved computer to run my routes.

So . . . my understanding is :
1. Assets used in a route and sessions that were available from DLS, Auran or Freeware sites that were used and unmodified do not require permission for further distribution.

2. The amount of work required in preparing my routes and sessions for uploading to DLS or sharing with burned DVD is the same.

3. It might be worth the effort to reduce the number of "minor" modification to a minimum.

4. All items with modifications that are "necessary part" of my route and sessions, will require specific permission from the author from each asset, unless permission to modify and distribute expressed in the asset config.txt file.

5. All "necessary" assets (after permission was given), needs to be uploaded to DLS individually. This can be done by adding each "necessary" asset to the Route's CDP file when uploading.

I think I got the basic understanding for uploading. Right?

I apologize, but I have more questions .

In a recent thread, I posed the question of "scenario v.s. sessions" and I think I am opting to just use "sessions" for TS2009. I will be writing a "route manual" for my route as a pdf. file. Kind of difficult to run sessions with just a paragraph or two of instructions.
Q?: How do I include the "manual" as a "required part" of the route series? Will it require a separate web site to host the manual or can it all be done on the DLS?

There are some dependencies which someone is always looking for on the DLS. This leads me to believe that some assets become unavailable for one reason or another. There are some key assets that were used on my routes "unmodified", but is crucial for the routes to function properly. The "Trigger Multiple Signal" rule, "Link Junction" asset, "Portal Timetable" rule, etc. to name a few.
Q?: Since these are critical assets, can these be made to become an "itegral part" of the route . . . meaning, everytime the route is downloaded, these critically necessary assets are ALWAYS downloaded with the route ?? Do I need to create a "cloned but NOT modified" version of these critical assets to ensure that they will AWAYS be available on the DLS?

Thanks . . . but I'm sure I'll have more questions :hehe:.

Due to the current state of economy . . . I have more time to be Trainzing than I like. Good for Trainz but tough for making ends meet.

If you are qurious . . . please check out this thread on "Kitbashing Industries". Most of my early work on industry area is there. Some of the industry has been modified since these screenshots, but mostly they remain the same. I use Imageshack. You will need click on the image then expand the window to see a larger image. You can follow the link to see other screen shots.
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=23447&highlight=Kitbashing

 

[sauleve]

I'm not talking about altering assets, nor am I talking about distributing. I simply want to put the route session and assets (unmodified) from DLS which I have used into one place. Having spent more than a few hours creating something I want it backed up/archived.

 

[PerRock]

So . . . my understanding is :
1. Assets used in a route and sessions that were available from DLS, Auran or Freeware sites that were used and unmodified do not require permission for further distribution.

2. The amount of work required in preparing my routes and sessions for uploading to DLS or sharing with burned DVD is the same.

3. It might be worth the effort to reduce the number of "minor" modification to a minimum.

4. All items with modifications that are "necessary part" of my route and sessions, will require specific permission from the author from each asset, unless permission to modify and distribute expressed in the asset config.txt file.

5. All "necessary" assets (after permission was given), needs to be uploaded to DLS individually. This can be done by adding each "necessary" asset to the Route's CDP file when uploading.
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=23447&highlight=Kitbashing

1. No. You still need permission to redistribute them. You can provide a link to the item where it is currently located, but cannot 'hand them out' with out contacting the creator.

2. DLS is easier. just upload the route (and sessions) and the DLS will find all the assets that are on the DLS and link them; It should email you about the ones that are not.

3. Yes

4. Yes; Some licenses (found in the config) say in you can release them with out permission. (I would personally/ still ask anyways)

5. yes you can add them to the routes KUID or upload them by themselves. On the downloaders end it is about the same.

peter

 

[PerRock]

There are some dependencies which someone is always looking for on the DLS. This leads me to believe that some assets become unavailable for one reason or another. There are some key assets that were used on my routes "unmodified", but is crucial for the routes to function properly. The "Trigger Multiple Signal" rule, "Link Junction" asset, "Portal Timetable" rule, etc. to name a few.
Q?: Since these are critical assets, can these be made to become an "itegral part" of the route . . . meaning, everytime the route is downloaded, these critically necessary assets are ALWAYS downloaded with the route ?? Do I need to create a "cloned but NOT modified" version of these critical assets to ensure that they will AWAYS be available on the DLS?

For the most part if an item is on the DLS you shouldn't need to worry about it. For other items; there isn't much you can do.

peter

 

[edion2]

Peter,

Thanks for your input.

1. No. You still need permission to redistribute them. You can provide a link to the item where it is currently located, but cannot 'hand them out' with out contacting the creator.

Does this mean that you believe I need permission from the authors of EACH & ALL items used to create my route & sessions ? Even if they were unmodified ??? That can take months of e-mail work.

I'm pretty sure that the route creators of routes on the DLS did not obtain permission for the unmodified assets found on the DLS. Perhaps just the ones that were cloned and modified.

Cloned and modified assets on my routes number less than 50, which is more doable than obtaining permission for EVERY asset that was used.


Does anyone have any idea how to upload or attach a manual to a route? My manual will be in pdf. format. Individually, a manual can not be assigned a "kuid #" . . . I don't think.

 

[narrowgauge]

Edion2

One of the rules for upoading to the DLS is that you confirm that everything is your own work, cloned and modified objects do not fall into this category. If you use items from the DLS, there is no need to gain permission.

If your cloned items are needed for the route then ask permission before you upload.

Peter

 

[Vern]

CD or DVD distribution was popular with MSTS routes but these days the majority of people have broadband and downloading large(ish) files is not the ordeal it used to be. Depending how you manage it and how popular your route is, you will quickly find yourself in a sea of discs, envelopes and labels. You will have to deal with the muppets who forget to put stamps on the return envelope (but still expect the disc back). If, as I did, you go down the Paypal/SW Reg road to avoid the SAE issue (and having to publish your postal address in the public domain) you will get dark mutterings about payware and profit. I was even (briefly) investigated by the VAT and Excise people!

If the file is too big for the DLS, there's nothing to stop you uploading at an external site such as Train-sim.com. I already did that with a couple of my TRS routes. Again the message is though, only your own original work can be included in the cdp(s) and whether end users get your route via the DLS, T-S.com or off a CD they will still need to put the route through the DLS or visit any external sites to get any required dependencies.

 

[paulzmay]

Does this mean that you believe I need permission from the authors of EACH & ALL items used to create my route & sessions ? Even if they were unmodified ??? That can take months of e-mail work.

I'm pretty sure that the route creators of routes on the DLS did not obtain permission for the unmodified assets found on the DLS. Perhaps just the ones that were cloned and modified.

No, if you upload to the DLS (or if you put your route/session only on a CD or website) you are not re-distributing anyone else's content, so you don't need permission. If you put all of the dependencies required for a route on the CD, then you are making them available in a way that the creator had not intended when uploading to the DLS.

Does anyone have any idea how to upload or attach a manual to a route? My manual will be in pdf. format. Individually, a manual can not be assigned a "kuid #" . . . I don't think.

Certain types of files are included (packed) into the CDP file if you add them into the map directory. .txt files, html files and .jpg files certainly work. .xls files don't. I've never tried .pdfs. Give it a go...

Paul

 

[edion2]

Thanks everyone.

I think I'm getting the full picture . . . the real scope of work required to UPLOAD to DLS.

I may have to ask Auran people regarding how to attach PDF file manuals to the route.

Since all the assets that I locally modified will be replaced with the "original DLS versions" on the downloader's computer, I think I'm going to include a section in the manual about "customizing content on the routes". These changes are mainly for looks. Things like bridges and tunnels having tracks that match the rest of the route. Other items like some of the older rolling stock with ugly bogies were replaced with better looking ones. Many of the other changes are toning down the "brightness" of locos, rolling stocks, and buildings. They all look much better on my routes the way I changed them . . . but none of these changes affect the operations. Right there, it eliminates worries about most of the assets I was concerned about.

In stead of using rolling stocks with modified loads, I can just re-do my consists for my sessions to use original one found on DLS. That would eliminate even more assets I need to worry about.

I think this is the way I'm going to proceed. No DVD releases. I'll need to more research for the final decision where the route will reside . . . DLS seems the easiest so far.

I still want to include in as PDF files all the track diagrams of yards and industry areas. Thats a lot of work right there.

It looks like it might take another year before I'll be ready for release.

I just jope to do it before TS2012 is released . . . :hehe::hehe:

 

[PerRock]

for the PDFs I know that TRS can handle HTML stuff. maybe this would be an easier way to go.

peter

 

[edion2]

peter,

Hmmm . . . HTML. From my vague understanding of file usage for Trainz, isn't HTML used for creating "scenarios"?

I really don't want to go down the "scenario" road. I've already written many pages in Word Perfect to be printed out as PDF. Copying and pasting text and graphics into HTML should not be hard but still its more work.

It may turn out that I might have to host the manual somewhere else and have the route on DLS and the same site where the manual will reside.

Thanks