Tutorial – Correcting railroad signal issues in TRS22 using my railroad signals

[MSGSapper]

When it comes to railroad signals in TRS22 strange things can sometimes happen. As an example, here is a screenshot showing a right diverging siding being protected by my <kuid:439337:119134> SAP_Signal_3_RH_RD_PBR railroad signal.

As you can see the lights do not display correctly. The reason for this is that the next junction where the siding reconnects to the mainline is not protected by railroad signals, so Trainz gets confused and does not display the lights correctly. How do you correct that?

If you add railroad signals such as my <kuid:439337:119134> SAP_Signal_3_RH_RD_PBR dwarf signal to protect both tracks, then Trainz will than display the signals correctly. The below screenshot shows what happens when I did this:

and

BTW if you don’t want those signals at the next junction to not be seen for some reason, than just add invisible signals such as my <kuid:439337:118758> SAP_Invisible_Signal_Dwarf_1_PBR. In either case this will fix this issue and make the railroad signal display lights correctly.

Another issue is when you have a siding or spur that does not reconnect back to the mainline. The following screenshot shows that Trainz is once again confused by this and does not display the lights correctly.

A simple way to fix this is to add an invisible signal, such as my <kuid:439337:118758> SAP_Invisible_Signal_Dwarf_1_PBR to the end of that track. When you do that, the issue will be resolved as shown below in the screenshot which now displays the lights correctly.

These are the solutions I have adopted for my line of railroad signals that fixes these Trainz railroad signaling quirks, and they work well if you do as I indicated above. BTW other authors have taken a somewhat different approach and used a Trainz script to deal with these issues with their railroad signals.

Bob

 

[norfolksouthern37]

As you can see the lights do not display correctly. The reason for this is that the next junction where the siding reconnects to the mainline is not protected by railroad signals, so Trainz gets confused and does not display the lights correctly. How do you correct that?

I can't figure out for my own life what or how these signals are supposed to be signals in the first place. You've invented your own trainset version and I've never seen anything like them. How are they supposed to work to begin with?

Another issue is when you have a siding or spur that does not reconnect back to the mainline. The following screenshot shows that Trainz is once again confused by this and does not display the lights correctly.

Would not this be corrected if the spur line were finished and had a proper bumper/end of track asset on the end?

 

[MSGSapper]

I can't figure out for my own life what or how these signals are supposed to be signals in the first place. You've invented your own trainset version and I've never seen anything like them. How are they supposed to work to begin with?



Would not this be corrected if the spur line were finished and had a proper bumper/end of track asset on the end?

<kuid:439337:119134> SAP_Signal_3_RH_RD_PBR
Description: A U.S. railroad right hand right diverging three aspect track signal on a concrete base. Uses non-parallax PBR textures. Poly count = 12834. Non-permissive (stop on red). The following aspects are used:
0 STOP
3 CAUTION AND RIGHT DIVERGE
4 CAUTION
6 PROCEED AND RIGHT DIVERGE
8 PROCEED.

This is showing those aspects correctly for the right diverging signal in the second and fifth screenshots. BTW all my signals are set up and comply with this:

https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/CCG/Kind:_MOSignal

Your signals function pretty much the same, but you use a script to achieve the correct aspects from what I have seen. The bumpers don't seem to make a difference from what I have experienced. That explains why there are so many invisible signals available on the DLS.

Bob

 

[norfolksouthern37]

A bumper is just a red signal to the track graph. Invisible signals are highly overused by inexperienced route creators.

I get the aspect states, what I mean is the signal itself follows no real situation/aspect and is apparently just made up - so nobody who understands signals can know what this is supposed to show and your first post is about them needing to be corrected.

 

[p-dehnert]

Not all track end devices are configured as signals. These other devices need an invisible signal, otherwise the stub track is unsignaled.

Peter

 

[davesnow]

Not all track end devices are configured as signals. These other devices need an invisible signal, otherwise the stub track is unsignaled.

Peter

I remember way back---- probably 2006 or 2007--there was a thread started by Auran that stated something to the effect that the game had an issue whereby cars would not stop (bump?) when they were kicked to a siding with a bumper. The cars would derail. Auran stated that the issue had been fixed. I distinctly remember that. Doesn't work today I don't think. Cars will either derail or phase through the bumper and then derail. As to invisible stuff I don't use invisible anything in my routes. Except maybe a traffic spawner. I have never needed an invisible signal. Wouldn't know how to use it!

 

[MSGSapper]

I get the aspect states, what I mean is the signal itself follows no real situation/aspect and is apparently just made up - so nobody who understands signals can know what this is supposed to show and your first post is about them needing to be corrected.

I am not sure I am following you here. Are you saying the overall appearance of the signal is not prototypical, or are you saying that the aspects are not correct for the diverging signal being shown in the screenshot for that situation?

Regarding U.S. signals, here is a quote from Wikipedia (emphasis on the no from me): "There is no national standard or system for railroad signaling in North America. Individual railroad corporations are free to devise their own signaling systems as long as they uphold some basic regulated safety requirements."

This quote comes from here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_railroad_signals

Prior to releasing these I did some checking/research and found that over the years there have been many, many different types of U.S. railroad signals in just about any kind of configuration and appearance you can imagine - and I saw some pretty weird ones. Today it's a lot more standardized than it was in the past. Given that I don't think these are too far beyond the pale at all considering many of the ones I saw online and they uphold the required Trainz aspect settings.

As for the overall appearance, it works for me and looks and functions pretty good I think. If folks don't agree, of course they are free to use other available signals on the DLS that meet there needs, to include your fine ones.

Bob

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Whatever the case these are just made up and have no intuitive way of reading them. They remind me of something for O or S 3-rail trains. Is there some kind of guide to the trainset signals or not?

Bumpers do generally bump the cars that are not careening into them at a high speed.

As well with bumpers, why even bring up the exception that some are not true signals at all? The fact is any spur track that is properly set up as has been the case for years does not require the "correction" in post 1 for the signal to clear the spur.

Perhaps this should be a guide thread rather than an unnecessary correction and a vague outline of something nobody has seen before. 2 signal heads side by side? When does a rd or ld become relevant and/or is it switching the side of the mast for the secondary head?

Highway railroad crossing sign on a wayside signal?

 

[H222]

Whatever the case these are just made up and have no intuitive way of reading them. They remind me of something for O or S 3-rail trains. Is there some kind of guide to the trainset signals or not?

Bumpers do generally bump the cars that are not careening into them at a high speed.

As well with bumpers, why even bring up the exception that some are not true signals at all? The fact is any spur track that is properly set up as has been the case for years does not require the "correction" in post 1 for the signal to clear the spur.

Perhaps this should be a guide thread rather than an unnecessary correction and a vague outline of something nobody has seen before. 2 signal heads side by side? When does a rd or ld become relevant and/or is it switching the side of the mast for the secondary head?

Highway railroad crossing sign on a wayside signal?

At first glance I thought these were a horrendously out of scale UK colour light signalling set, as they do use route signalling and do have junction diverging heads displayed on 2 separate heads.

But this.... This is not anything even remotely prototypical, and I suspect that the reason the game struggles to display them "prototypically" is because they are not prototypical at all. I suspect this isn't even a "bug" or a limitation of Trainz, and rather a completely improper signalling system.

How many years on the Railroad and what safeworking systems and networks were you qualified on, Bob?

 

[MSGSapper]

Whatever the case these are just made up and have no intuitive way of reading them. They remind me of something for O or S 3-rail trains. Is there some kind of guide to the trainset signals or not?

Bumpers do generally bump the cars that are not careening into them at a high speed.

As well with bumpers, why even bring up the exception that some are not true signals at all? The fact is any spur track that is properly set up as has been the case for years does not require the "correction" in post 1 for the signal to clear the spur.

Perhaps this should be a guide thread rather than an unnecessary correction and a vague outline of something nobody has seen before. 2 signal heads side by side? When does a rd or ld become relevant and/or is it switching the side of the mast for the secondary head?

Highway railroad crossing sign on a wayside signal?

I am not sure what you mean by "have no intuitive way of reading them" as they function almost exactly the same way as your Safetran NS Signal 06-RD rail signal does as shown in the following screeenshot:

The only difference here is that instead of the diverging light set being lower, as they are with the SafeTrans signal, it is on the right instead. If this were a left diverging signal of mine than the head on the left would be for diverging and the head on the right would be for the main. The SafeTran signal uses the lower light set for both situations.

I ran the test using both your Safetrans signal and mine and they displayed the aspects exactly the same. Have you ran test comparing mine to your Safetrans signals and found that they don't? If they function the same and display aspects correctly, than what is the issue here?

The following bumpers work as you said:

<kuid2:106916:10052:1> US bumper darkrusty (build 2.4)
<kuid:30671:23002> US bumper yellowrusty (build 1.3)
<kuid2:334896:26189:1> Hayes Bumper Black (build 2.9)

Later bumpers don't work. I tried both mine and ones by TUME:

<kuid:439337:107796> SAP_US_Bumper_Rusty_1_PBR
<kuid:439337:113835> SAP_US_Bumper_Rusty_2_PBR (build 4.7)
<kuid2:82412:23134:1> TUME-23134-Track-Bumper (build 3.6)
<kuid2:82412:23133:1> TUME-23133-Track-Bumper (build 3.6)
<kuid2:82412:23132:1> TUME-23132-Track-Bumper (build 3.6)

Why this is the case, I am not sure as the config.txt file is correct for these later items. Perhaps in your own testing you can provide some insights on this that I might be missing here. BTW your Safetran NS Signal 06-RD rail signal does not work with the later bumpers either, as shown in this screenshot:

To address another post saying they were "horrendously out of scale" here is a comparison of my two my new signals with their Safetran signal counterparts:

Hardly "horrendously out of scale" IMHO.

As for "struggles to display them "prototypically" is because they are not prototypical at all", that has nothing to with their appearance and everything to do with how the aspects and lights are set up in the config.txt file and on the mesh.

I will be the first to admit I am no expert on railroad signaling but, based on my research, I see I have done nothing wrong here and the lights are functionally correct. Users have a lot choices of signals to choose from on the DLS, albeit many of them are older builds that have not been updated to current Trainz graphic standards, so if you don't like these than don't use them.

Bob

 

[norfolksouthern37]

I am not sure what you mean by "have no intuitive way of reading them"

because they don't exist and therefore have no known way to read them.

The only difference here is that instead of the diverging light set being lower, as they are with the SafeTrans signal, it is on the right instead. If this were a left diverging signal of mine than the head on the left would be for diverging and the head on the right would be for the main. The SafeTran signal uses the lower light set for both situations.

I ran the test using both your Safetrans signal and mine and they displayed the aspects exactly the same. Have you ran test comparing mine to your Safetrans signals and found that they don't? If they function the same and display aspects correctly, than what is the issue here?

The issue is that you just made it up and wouldn't tell anyone even this small explanation until now even though I kept asking. Since you just made up this signal system, it is only known to you... I don't know why this is hard to understand. NO other signal is like this because it is confusing, and you get all defensive when asking wth it is.

(bumper content)

This is still not a mystery and you are only pointing out the obvious. An unsignalled track will always be an unsignalled track. "Correction" is still unnecessary.

To address another post saying they were "horrendously out of scale" here is a comparison of my two my new signals with their Safetran signal counterparts:

Would more argue proportion, unless they are not supposed to be realistic, in which case their appearance is fine - again they'd make a good model railroad signal.

I will be the first to admit I am no expert on railroad signaling but, based on my research, I see I have done nothing wrong here and the lights are functionally correct.

And I would 100% agree you have no expertise here. Perhaps you have written a book by putting words on a page, but since its in a made-up language nobody knows what it says. Was only asking for you to explain it.

Users have a lot choices of signals to choose from on the DLS, albeit many of them are older builds that have not been updated to current Trainz graphic standards, so if you don't like these than don't use them.

Fine- yes we know you do not take criticism of your work and always use the same answer.
You only "make" content you want and don't take comments from anyone.
You don't listen to anyone trying to help you. I am done with this nonsense.
You are intentionally obtuse and not worth the effort.

Edit: I think I understand now why you don't seem to understand the models - you merely converted them from a source and didn't create them at all. You wrote this book by pasting things from another book and you don't even know what it says...

Modular Railway Track PRO Collection | 3D model

Model available for download in 3D Studio format. Visit CGTrader and browse more than 1 million 3D models, including 3D print and real-time assets

www.cgtrader.com

 

[MSGSapper]

For those who are interested, my diverging signals are patterned after bracket mast/post types like these three:

and

and

As you can see, side-by-side signals do exists.

Here is an online source that talks about them and shows more examples:

https://www.railroadsignals.us/support/mounting/index.htm

As I said before there are many, many different railroad signal configuration and types out there that have been seen on U.S railroads of all sizes over the last hundred years or more. Trainz only has a very, very limited number of various types available on the DLS for use on our routes. I am just presenting another option that covers this type signal for those who wish to use it.

BTW all our discussions heree seem to revolve around my diverging mast/post type signals, but they are not the only ones I released. The non-diverging ones, dwarf and full height, look pretty close to many ground mast and dwarf types I have seen on U.S. railroads.

Bob

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Dude, in the first image those are two permissive intermediate signals, one for each track.
The other ones are two absolute signals, one for each track. Never is this a "diverging signal".

It's like talking to a brick. Here is a man unwilling to learn anything! good luck all.

 

[MSGSapper]

It's like talking to a brick. Here is a man unwilling to learn anything! good luck all.

I am disappointed in that you feel the need to post such a comment as well as the ROFL emojis you have been adding to some of my forum posts. I thought you were more professional than this. Despite your comments I have remained totally civil to you and not made such comments or emoji postings and tried to address what you have been saying with both images and online links to support what I have done. I also agreed partially with your point on the rail bumpers but presented some issues with them as well, which I was hoping for some insights in why some work and some don't. If I weren't "listening" to you, I would not have done all that.

Just because you say it, or don't agree with it, doesn't make it so, or make something not allowable in Trainz. I don't think stuff from Mars or Thomas the Tank engine stuff should be in Trainz, but that is strictly my opinion, and if that is what they like to do and it makes them happy, so be it, and who am I to stop them? Afterall I don't have to download or use it myself if I don't want to. Are you a critic of their stuff as well, because that is as un-prototypical as it gets in Trainz (no offense meant to their creators in anyway).

It must be nice to have so much free time on your hands that you focus on what others make instead of creating or updating your own stuff. On my part I only had this morning available this week to create new stuff for Trainz and I lost all of that having to deal with your comments today. I have very little time these days for this hobby and don't desire to be a critic of the work of anyone else. As an example, I don't go to any of your forum threads and say or do the things you do here in this thread or my other threads. I envy you that you have such time available apparently.

If you want to help me refine my work, than I am all for that, but so far you haven't said one single positive thing about those signals at all and simply want to put them down it seems because you don't agree with them or they don't meet your prototypical criteria. You come on as a critic and not as a helper here.

If you don't like what I do, and how I do it, than why do you keep coming to my forum threads? Are you that bored?

Bob