Turnout frogs as scenery objects?

[bl4882]

I have a problem with turnout frog-and-guard-rail track object sets that are available on the DLS. They look fine, and one set is downright excellent, but placing them is a nightmare. If they don't land in exactly on the right spot moving them is difficult and frustrating, and they have a tendency to jump around, sometimes for no apparent reason and almost always if you insert a spline point on the same track nearby.

So I had the idea that if these were scenery objects instead of track objects they wouldn't have this problem, but before I invest hours (I'm helpless when it comes to anything approaching content creation) I wanted to know if this would be feasible. I thought that I could use a config.txt file from a scenery object and, with appropriate modifications, marry it up with the meshes from my turnout frog track objects, and make them rollable, to adjust for grades, and height adjustable, of course. Placing them might take a bit longer, though maybe not considering the difficulties, but the stability gained might more than repay the effort.

Would this be feasible?

Of course, they would be for my private use. I'm not planning to steal anything.

Bernie

 

[llebrez]

I always use frogs made under "trackside objects". There are many to choose from. Making splines over other splines (tracks) is hard and eventually will cause problems.

 

[bl4882]

Hi Ilebrez,

No, I'm not thinking about a spline, but a scenery object. The trackside objects you are referring to are the ones that are giving me trouble. To elaborate: sometimes it's nearly impossible to get them to move at all, other times they just move on their own, and they all have a tendency to move a minimum fixed distance making fine adjustments in placement impossible.

Bernie

 

[RRSignal]

I would have to look at these but is there an actual trackside tag in the object's config.txt? I'm not talking about asset KIND but an offset tag to lock the object into the rail. It should be set to either 0 or 0.01. In theory, that should still allow you to adjust it up and down the track but not laterally.

 

[bl4882]

Hi RRSignal,

Yes, the ones I am talking about all have the trackside tag and it is set to "0." They are from Frank Dean and NorfolkSouthern. I never had this problem in TRS2006, at least not to this degree. It only surfaced in TS2010 and TS12, and badly enough to make me forget about using them entirely, but turnouts without the frogs look, well, incomplete.

Bernie

 

[clam1952]

It's even worse with the Narrow Gauge ones, it's not lateral movement that's a problem, its getting them lined up properly without jumping to the other side or moving the say lefthand one into position without messing up the right or jumping on top of it. Scenery item sounds to me like the easiest solution and had actually crossed my mind a while back, you can then roll as well then to account for gradients, I have points on a 1 in 40, as they are one end of the frog is in the air the other buried in a sleeper aesthetically pleasing, it is most definitely not.

 

[BobCass]

If you would use Oleg kim switches and track, you would not have this problem..Because it has frog built in as well as animated switches..

 

[bl4882]

@clam: It is soothing to commiserate with a fellow sufferer.:wave:

@Bob Cass: Actually, I had considered using animated switches when I started with TS2010. The problem is that they come in a limited choice of frog numbers and do not account for special work. I lay switches with frog numbers from #4 to #10 at half number increments and from #11 to #24, with frog angles from 14.2 to 2.4 degrees, and can shorten the frog distance or even lay a gantlet switch, if necessary. This permits me to replicate specific prototype track arrangements taken from maps, blue prints, and diagrams as closely as the program will allow. I would lose that flexibility with animated switches.

Bernie

 

[clam1952]

Might solve bl4882's problem but not mine, 2ft Narrow gauge switches that match my track? US or Continental NG will not do as based on the actual track. Probably end up making my own solution. Could do with animated 3 way and 5 way stub points though! might have to think turntable there.

 

[bl4882]

Thank all of you who have responded. Since no one has ventured a reason why this couldn't work, I'm going to invest the time in seeing if I can do it. I'll report back if it is successful and worth the effort. If it is not, I will retreat in abject humiliation, never to be heard from again. :'(

Don't count too heavily on the never be heard from again business.:hehe:

Thanks again, all,
Bernie

 

[cascaderailroad]

Turnout Frog L, and Turnout Frog R, by norfolksouthern37 are very easy to use, and move around, especially if you have the trainzoptions line: -surveyorfov=35 entered.
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_006-16_zps28e4e294.jpg
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004-9.jpg

The R one goes on the Left leg, and the L one goes on the Right leg of the turnout (confusing, I know).
Depending on the direction of travel the track is laid, the frogs will be reversed, reguiring flpping.
Moving them and sliding them around, there is a sweet spot that you can grab a hold of, and position them.
Positioning them is best done from looking straight down, zoomed all the way in.

Even though track laying direction is a myth, as to AI operation ... wrong facing tracklaying direction does effect any trackside asset (signal, frogs, trackmaker) direction, as they will be backwards.

 

[Dermmy]

I've placed a zillion of the NS_37 ones and I feel the OP's pain! I have placed so many though that about 7 out of 10 land in the correct place first time - the way I build my junctions there's a vertex you just miss with the mouse and it's all good! There is an issue with moving them along the track, the adjustment is not 'infinite' but they snap along in 'steps' meaning they can't always be positioned exactly where you need them to be. I know the frustration of them sometimes 'jumping', to minimize that there are two 'tricks'. Firstly as Cascade says there is a 'sweet spot' you have to find and once you get it things are much easier and secondly after fiddling one side into position, click the mouse at a random point well away from the junction before attempting to move the other side. Getting the camera at the correct angle and elevation also helps, but that's just experience. No criticism of the assets themselves expressed or implied, I love the things! I suspect the issue lies in the nature of trackside attachment....

As to converting them to scenery objects I see a huge problem with the minimum +/-.05 height adjust - that's gonna be an issue for sure, and rotating every one to exactly the right ange? I'm gonna stick with the problem's we've already got

Andy...

 

[bl4882]

Well Cascade, I tried your advice and changed the surveyor fov to 35. It did seem to make a world of difference when using the NorfolkSouthern frogs, which are my favorite. I had had it at 45 before. With the new setting I backed off a bit from closest view and was able to move the frogs with ease and still get a good look at where they were going. Thanks a lot for the tip. I'm going to go back to adding these things to my track. Snit over.

Now, would anyone care to take a stab at inventing some electronic epoxy to keep them from jumping around?:hehe:

Bernie

 

[cascaderailroad]

-surveyor=35 is the minimum setting, and -surveyor=185 is about a maximum as you can get without a severe fish eye view.

The frogs gently slide down the rail, and if your mouse waivers off the rail, the frogs can jump, and flip ... as froggies oftentimes like to do !

 

[JCitron]

When trackside objects get stuck, switch to the track marks and triggers tab and you can slide the object past the spline point.

I know it's weird but that has always worked.

I've given up placing the frogs. This had me jumping about! It's too bad this type of thing wasn't built-in into the track in the first place.

John