TS12 wont run on Windows 8

[djt]

So I guess my question is, what is the point in changing your OS that has no obvious advantages over the previous OS, other than to generate some income for MS?

Nothing Bob unless your interested in better memory utilization that Windows 8 provides along with DirectX 11 improvements that I don’t know will be supported on Windows 7 or Vista which eventually will lead to a performance advantage over Windows 7 just like we’ve seen with XP -

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...celerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx

Then you’ll have the cycle that we’ve seen in the past with Windows where driver development (especially with Nvidia and AMD) is focused on Windows 8 and the previous OS’s get less attention. In other words drivers in the future will be a lot more refined for Windows 8 and the previous Windows operating systems will take a back seat.

 

[Ron_Smith]

I ran TS12 in the pre-release version of Windows 8 to see if it was ok and found no problems - except I was running on a spare PC which was not "up to the job".
I installed Windows 8 on my PC last weekend and have installed and run TS12 with no problems at all.
I did nothing except install TS12 with all the patches etc. and everything is fine.

Ron

 

[Robert2d6]

Nothing Bob unless your interested in better memory utilization that Windows 8 provides along with DirectX 11 improvements that I don’t know will be supported on Windows 7 or Vista which eventually will lead to a performance advantage over Windows 7 just like we’ve seen with XP -

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...celerating-everything-windows-8-graphics.aspx

Then you’ll have the cycle that we’ve seen in the past with Windows where driver development (especially with Nvidia and AMD) is focused on Windows 8 and the previous OS’s get less attention. In other words drivers in the future will be a lot more refined for Windows 8 and the previous Windows operating systems will take a back seat.

After listening to months of tech shows featuring Paul Thurrott http://www.amazon.com/Windows-8-Sec...UTF8&qid=1351818569&sr=1-1&keywords=Windows+8 on the TWIT network, my perception which is apparently shared by many in the tech world, is that W8 is primarily designed for the touch screen tablet platform, which MS believes will eventually do away with the desktop. That is MS's focus and their goal. Keeping that in mind, if and when I ever decide to dump my desktop and replace it with some kind of tablet with a touch screen, then I too will probably jump on the W8 bandwagon. For now, I am happy with the desktop I have and it runs and performs very well, and has already been beta tested.

As far as the driver issue, I just downloaded the latest Nividia driver release last week which was designed for everything from Windows XP and up, so I seriously doubt that they will discard the development of drivers for Windows 7 for years and years, unless they don't want to sell Nividia GPU's anymore to millions and millions of Windows 7 users. When you factor in that the overwhelming majority of Nividia's and AMD users have desktops, and are not very likely to change their OS, there is no way these companies are going to focus all their efforts on Windows8 .

 

[djt]

As far as the driver issue, I just downloaded the latest Nividia driver release last week which was designed for everything from Windows XP and up, so I seriously doubt that they will discard the development of drivers for Windows 7 for years and years, unless they don't want to sell Nividia GPU's anymore to millions and millions of Windows 7 users. When you factor in that the overwhelming majority of Nividia's and AMD users have desktops, and are not very likely to change their OS, there is no way these companies are going to focus all their efforts on Windows8 .

It’s varied from driver revision to driver revision but no as an example XP has been left out of many driver revisions since Vista. Right now AMD’s big performance (Catalyst 12.11) driver revision isn’t even available for XP.

If Windows 8 gets improvements to Direct X 11.1 and then later Direct X 12 that Microsoft keeps from Windows 7 then obviously Windows 8 will eventually take the performance lead and the cycle will go on.

There are already significant improvements in hardware utilization with Windows 8 that probably could have been included in a service pack 2 for Windows 7 but I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft keeps them from Win7 in order to get everyone on the band wagon with Windows 8.

I personally could care less, like I said before if the situation get’s that bad for us mouse and keyboard jockey’s then more power to Linux.

Valve has already taken steps to prepare for this -

http://venturebeat.com/2012/10/29/valve-linux-viable-games-windows-8/

http://steamforlinux.com/

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/29/steam-for-linux-beta-registration-opens/

 

[shaneturner12]

The only problem I can see though is unless N3V take steps, Trainz will not be able to take advantage of newer DX versions as it is effectively hardcoded to use DX9.0C.

Shane

 

[ish6]

The only problem I can see though is unless N3V take steps, Trainz will not be able to take advantage of newer DX versions as it is effectively hardcoded to use DX9.0C.

Shane

Hi Shane,

Hope things are well with you?


True with your quote, and let's hope Auran addresses those issues ....

Generally speaking to all ... I have read a few articles on windows8 (cnet) and from a core point of view it will run your programs much much faster and smoother -- granted, one must have lots of ram, etc etc etc ,,,, to see it all come together!

Remember that there is a steep learning curve with windows 8 guys!

Ish

 

[shaneturner12]

Hi Ish,

Things are running OK for me at the moment (apart from the employment side of things, which seems to be the same for most people here in the UK). I've been doing a couple of entries on my blog as well, and am hoping to work with N3V to help them on the tutorial side at some point in the future.

Relating to the DX comment of mine, the only feature in TS2010/TS12 that can make use of DX10/DX11 is Speedtrees, as apparently they use a different graphics engine.

Stay tuned for further updates of mine though, as I'm planning a mini version of my PC Information Application that does not even require the running of a .exe file as such.

Shane

 

[ish6]

Hi Ish I'm glad to hear from you. I hope all is going well.

I too can say that there aren't any real problems. The start menu is different, but if you go to the desktop, it's just like Windows 7 without a start menu-button. To get to start menu again, you can hit the windows-start key on the keyboard and to return to desktop, you can hit it again. No big deal. IE10 seems to be about the same, and so does the control panel and everything else once I found out where they are. Last night I did some editing in Trainz and downloading from the DLS. Everything worked normally as far as I could tell. The performance was the same in Trainz as it was in Win7

So I don't see any real big deal, and once people get used to the difference in the initial interface, there will be no complaints. Now I'm sure with more and more native applications the desktop will eventually become less and less useful then eventually disappear, and we will need special hacks to run a desktop applications.

John

Hi John,

Considering life is well, thank you --- getting ready to introduce my little one's to preschooling, etc ....
Hope things are well with you!!! I don't post all that much but I am very active from a creation point of view these days!!

I totally agree with your post!!

Friends have upgraded, and have not had any issues doing so, or even having T12 installed -- Of course, every PC is diiferent, the more it packs the better the OS will response to that particular pc, etc .... I do feel Auran should have their say on this thread if they have not done so about w8 and T12, etc (my 2 cents)

Anyhow, John, you take care now!!
Ishie

 

[ish6]

Hi Ish,

Things are running OK for me at the moment (apart from the employment side of things, which seems to be the same for most people here in the UK). I've been doing a couple of entries on my blog as well, and am hoping to work with N3V to help them on the tutorial side at some point in the future.

Relating to the DX comment of mine, the only feature in TS2010/TS12 that can make use of DX10/DX11 is Speedtrees, as apparently they use a different graphics engine.

Stay tuned for further updates of mine though, as I'm planning a mini version of my PC Information Application that does not even require the running of a .exe file as such.

Shane

Wow Shane,

Certainly you have lot on your plate, Shane -- thanks for sharing, etc LOL --- I don't post all that much these days, but I do stop and read here and there, and now that you have told us about your plans I will keep an eye open and an ear up on any progress you may accomplish!

Take care Shane!!

Ishie

 

[phimat]

I've had win 8 on this (newish) lap for a week now. If you are a PC user - as distinct from a tablet/app user - then you will find pretty quickly that you need some kind of Start Menu as standby to get at your less-used progs. (I use Classic Shell, which is simple and direct.) One good thing, unlike tab/phones, you can remove everything from the Start page - which you will want to do, if only because each software installation will add more shortcuts to it. ("All apps", btw, actually means "all shortcuts", which can be messy.)

As for Trainz. I don't run tr12 anyway but tr10 runs fine, tho' you will need to reinstall dx9 - as noted above - if you want to run the prog under dx. One thing, tho': this lap has an AMD graphics card - which I haven't used since the late 90s - and it may be responsible for the garish rendering of some of the veg. Any comment on this?

As win 7.1, the new OS is fine. As Win 8: well, Metro is the new Aero - bells and whistles.

 

[Robert2d6]

The only problem I can see though is unless N3V take steps, Trainz will not be able to take advantage of newer DX versions as it is effectively hardcoded to use DX9.0C.

Shane

I agree, and that is why we Windows 7 users have to download DX9, rather than the newer version that comes with Windows 7 .

 

[shaneturner12]

It's also the same for Vista users. and Windows 8 users.

Shane

 

[Red_Rattler]

Strange, Windows 8 works on Macs better than on Microsoft systems!

While this thread is meant to be about a simulator not working via Windows 8, I was listening to an ABC show with a tech. guest on. One person rang up, and said that he installed Windows 8 on a Mac, with no trouble at all, and it WORKS. But he also said that he tried to install it on is Microsoft (or should that be Micro$oft?) computer, and he can't get it work. He said he can't even get it back to Windows 7, even after doing a fresh re-install.

The host and guest said it's odd that it's working on a Mac.

 

[Robert2d6]

While this thread is meant to be about a simulator not working via Windows 8, I was listening to an ABC show with a tech. guest on. One person rang up, and said that he installed Windows 8 on a Mac, with no trouble at all, and it WORKS. But he also said that he tried to install it on is Microsoft (or should that be Micro$oft?) computer, and he can't get it work. He said he can't even get it back to Windows 7, even after doing a fresh re-install.

The host and guest said it's odd that it's working on a Mac.

I have heard of two instances where going from 8 back to 7, finally required wiping the hard drive and doing a complete windows install. Fun!!

 

[Red_Rattler]

But what about it actually WORKING on a Mac, don't you think that is strange?

Also, the same interview said that they've been plenty of issues with Windows 8

 

[tbryson2]

I did not take the time to read through this entire thread, but I did find out something interesting last night. I belong to a Flight Simulator club, (I call them my Flight Sim Support Group!) and it was mentioned that Microsoft Flight Simulator X (FSX) would not run in Windows 8. The person who mentioned this is (pretty) tech. savvy, and had done beta testing of Windows 8 previously. DURING THE BETA TEST, FSX ran fine! But when he loaded the production version of Win 8, FSX simply would not run, even when he re-installed it.

I (personally) suspect that being a new product, "they" will have many patches to do to get it right. But only time will tell.

TB

 

[djt]

The only problem I can see though is unless N3V take steps, Trainz will not be able to take advantage of newer DX versions as it is effectively hardcoded to use DX9.0C.

Shane

Shane, the rendering engine/game engine that Trainz uses hasn’t seen any real significant improvements in a decade and is completely outdated. The only way to move forward anyway is to completely re-write the game engine or license one from someone who has real experience with game/rendering engine development which of course cost money.

As far as you’re comment on Trainz being hard coded to use DX9, from what I remember Trainz was originally an OpenGL game with DirectX being an after thought. As far as a game changing DirectX libraries is concerned I’ve seen other game developers change from DirectX 9 to DirectX 11 with the same game engine. In the case of Trainz it's going to take a lot more than just switching DirectX libraries to fix it’s problems.

I agree, and that is why we Windows 7 users have to download DX9, rather than the newer version that comes with Windows 7 .

I’ve never had to download DX9 to use Trainz on Windows 7, I just update the DirectX files just like you have to with previous versions of Windows.

I have heard of two instances where going from 8 back to 7, finally required wiping the hard drive and doing a complete windows install. Fun!!

No different from what we’ve had to do in the past with previous versions of Windows.

 

[JCitron]

So I guess my question is, what is the point in changing your OS that has no obvious advantages over the previous OS, other than to generate some income for MS?

Robert,

First I did the upgrade for free with my TechNet subscription. I also did it to learn about it because I will probably have to support the OS someday, even though I am not working at the moment. Remember, and I assume you're retired now, that there will be some bigwig CEO who will want to install it on their company computer, or bring in something that is running the OS and guess what I'll have to support the devices and try to get everything working. I've been there before with Windows XP, Windows 2000, and Even Vista as the local tech guy and desktop support engineer.

John

Hi John,

Considering life is well, thank you --- getting ready to introduce my little one's to preschooling, etc ....
Hope things are well with you!!! I don't post all that much but I am very active from a creation point of view these days!!

I totally agree with your post!!

Friends have upgraded, and have not had any issues doing so, or even having T12 installed -- Of course, every PC is diiferent, the more it packs the better the OS will response to that particular pc, etc .... I do feel Auran should have their say on this thread if they have not done so about w8 and T12, etc (my 2 cents)

Anyhow, John, you take care now!!
Ishie

Hi Ish,

Your little one is all grown up, holy cow how time flies along.

I've seen you in the dev side, I miss you though so post here more often.

I agree too, N3V (Auran) should definitely state their level of support for Win 8 somewhere on their website. Like everything else, there's a lot of missing details from a lot of their communication, but then again they're a small shop trying to do a big job. I've worked in places like that myself and it surely gets crazy!

I'm out of work now on medical leave due to complications from my Parkinson's disease. It's been an ongoing thing, but as I stay home more and more, I'm beginning to get used to using Trainz all day.

Take care,

John

 

[Robert2d6]

Robert,

First I did the upgrade for free with my TechNet subscription. I also did it to learn about it because I will probably have to support the OS someday, even though I am not working at the moment. Remember, and I assume you're retired now, that there will be some bigwig CEO who will want to install it on their company computer, or bring in something that is running the OS and guess what I'll have to support the devices and try to get everything working. I've been there before with Windows XP, Windows 2000, and Even Vista as the local tech guy and desktop support engineer.

John


Take care,

John

I agree, and in your position, would do the same thing.

 

[Ernest2d6]

I never upgrade, I leap frog. Dos to win98 to XP to Win7. My strategy is not to chase the gimmicks but to jump at real change in computing. But the real reason is technology, when gaming catches up to the new stuff and my old computer is starting to wheeze at the strain then its time to build the next gaming rig. buying the new programs and other new stuff is a pain but I still like sitting in my office in my comfy chair and do stuff, I like my smart phone for now, not a big fan of tablets, laptops. Screen is so small for the games I like. Never use a monitor under 25" again. ... starting to ramble, time for bed. later -Ern.