Trainz Roadmap - a DX12 question

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

What does "not free" in the highlighted piece mean?

"DX12 allows the Trainz engine to develop future features like ray tracing, variable rate shading, and mesh shaders to create breathtaking worlds with unparalleled detail and realism. While these are not free once DX12 arrives, they do get us a lot closer to new technology advancements in the Trainz engine."

 

[Forester1]

I assume they are speaking to the features that come with dx12, but require a fair bit of development work to get them incorporated into the Trainz engine.

 

[wreeder]

Or they could mean the massive performance hit caused by such features.

 

[JCitron]

Or they could mean the massive performance hit caused by such features.

That's one of the things that crossed my mind as I was getting excited about some of the things on the roadmap.

 

[2995Valliant]

I took it to mean both of the above, but we already have things which were once regarded as impossible (ie HD terrain) due the computing power required - and that power is still improving year on year.

 

[JAGG]

Maybe DX12 is going to be under license fees for developers? Clutter instead Turf is another performance cost...

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

Until N3V chime in with a clarification of their ambiguous phrase, it seems that we can only guess.

 

[Pencil42]

It means you need DX12 to do ray tracing, etc, but just moving to DX12 doesn't give you ray tracing - you still need to do additional dev work on top of that.

 

[PortLineParker]

It means you need DX12 to do ray tracing, etc, but just moving to DX12 doesn't give you ray tracing - you still need to do additional dev work on top of that.

That's how I interpreted it; the move to DX12 can allow for more features but they aren't automatic - they need to be developed which will cost time and money.

Cheers,

PLP

 

[rwk]

My one computer is behind, it has Windows 8.1, 3gb GTX card, but a lot of RAM, and DX11. I had to buy a used computer on ebay last October for under $500 that has Windows 10, 6 or 8 gb 2070 RTX Super, 16 gb RAM, and DX12 in order to play this sequel Planet Coaster 2 that came out in November. Technology marches on and now computer monitors use HDMI which is digital and carries video and audio but VGA is analog and video only, so you need separate speakers for sound. The newer computer doesn't have a VGA port so I had to use an adapter to use a VGA monitor.

 

[JCitron]

My one computer is behind, it has Windows 8.1, 3gb GTX card, but a lot of RAM, and DX11. I had to buy a used computer on ebay last October for under $500 that has Windows 10, 6 or 8 gb 2070 RTX Super, 16 gb RAM, and DX12 in order to play this sequel Planet Coaster 2 that came out in November. Technology marches on and now computer monitors use HDMI which is digital and carries video and audio but VGA is analog and video only, so you need separate speakers for sound. The newer computer doesn't have a VGA port so I had to use an adapter to use a VGA monitor.

It pays never to throw anything away. I have lots of those adapters I've saved over the years as I've upgraded and built my computers. The computer you have isn't that bad a machine. It's sad that "older hardware" is considered obsolete in only a few years now instead of 3 to 5 years like it used to be.

 

[wreeder]

First, N3V is pushing DX12 for one reason above all else. To run on the X Box requires DX12. Ray tracing or more accurately called path tracing when talking about real time uses is possible without DX12. In fact, DX11 supports "ray tracing" in games. I assume it might perform better in DX12 but that is hard to tell as so few games support it. The far better way of doing advanced graphics including RTX and Volumetric Fog in games is to use the graphic libraries available from the company that make the GPU chip. But that ties you to a specific company in the same way turf effects was only available on Nvidia chips.

Here is the issue. GPU chips are progressing at the speed of light while poor old DX12 (public release in 2021) trundles along like a senior citizen on the way to the market. The strength of the Direct X concept was that it was stable and reliable for game developers to use. Your code worked for years without having to patch it. However, that is now its biggest weakness. Microsoft shows no interest in updating DX12 to keep up with the GPU chip design changes. Nvidia has a 85% market share and has no interest in slowing down. A mighty struggle between two trillion dollar companies. And I fear the loser will be the consumer.

 

[JCitron]

First, N3V is pushing DX12 for one reason above all else. To run on the X Box requires DX12. Ray tracing or more accurately called path tracing when talking about real time uses is possible without DX12. In fact, DX11 supports "ray tracing" in games. I assume it might perform better in DX12 but that is hard to tell as so few games support it. The far better way of doing advanced graphics including RTX and Volumetric Fog in games is to use the graphic libraries available from the company that make the GPU chip. But that ties you to a specific company in the same way turf effects was only available on Nvidia chips.

Here is the issue. GPU chips are progressing at the speed of light while poor old DX12 (public release in 2021) trundles along like a senior citizen on the way to the market. The strength of the Direct X concept was that it was stable and reliable for game developers to use. Your code worked for years without having to patch it. However, that is now its biggest weakness. Microsoft shows no interest in updating DX12 to keep up with the GPU chip design changes. Nvidia has a 85% market share and has no interest in slowing down. A mighty struggle between two trillion dollar companies. And I fear the loser will be the consumer.

The caveat is N3V always goes with the oldest common denominator instead of something in the middle so that they're not totally behind but where they can inch forward a bit more rather than stay in the dark shadows. I do understand that some of this is the cost of the development packages, but then again if they are truly committed to new products, they would invest in the tools to make that happen.

In some ways, I'm not holding my breath on the PC side because by the time we see this, NVidia will have RTX9xxx video cards and Microsoft will have already moved on to DirectX 24

 

[rwk]

I hate though when newer games require you to buy expensive hardware to play them because your current hardware is outdated and won't run the newer game. I had that problem last year when an amusement park building sequel Planet Coaster 2 came out in November. It required things I didn't have, like Windows 10, DX12, more advanced graphics card, so I bought a used computer on ebay in late October for under $500 to be able to play this new game plus Steam stopped working on my Windows 8.1 computer so I couldn't play other games like the first Planet Coaster. It works though on the other computer I got on ebay. I like that Trainz still works on Windows 8.1 and doesn't really require a vid card higher than 3gb.