Trainz for Ubuntu

[pcas1986]

...
Curiously I've just had an email from eComStation, who took over OS2 from IBM, asking if I or anyone I know still use it! How about Trainz for OS2? :hehe:

I used to write code for OS/2 and Presentation Manager which is the window layer of OS/2. One application I wrote (with others!) ran for the best part of 20 years. By then we were scratching to find hardware that would support it. OS/2 actually came from Microsoft originally but I believe IBM bought it and Microsoft redeveloped it into NT. It was a true multi tasking (threaded) operating system and I rather liked it. We couldn't move to eComStation because our support toolset stopped working beyond a particular (OS/2) fixpak.

My concern with Win 8 is its tablet orientation and makes me wonder what the longer term future for OS's will be. I confess I haven't tried it yet as I have been too busy. I note that the latest Ubuntu looks rather like Win8!

I run Ubuntu through VMWare's VMWare Workstation because I like to play with different stuff. It's hosted within Windows and is a good way to install different OS's and play with them without breaking your host system. I don't mind Linux but if you try to get out of the standard package system it can get very difficult very quickly. Running makefiles and the like is beyond the average user IMHO.

I suspect I will stay with Win 7, which like XP, I rather like.

One of these days I will finally get to finish the original Zork game. No graphics, just text and your imagination. I keep getting eaten by a Grue!

Sorry if I meandered off topic.

 

[martinZl]

Ok, so let's summarize it. Why should or why should not Auran develop a Linux version of Trainz.

Cons (-):
- Not enough users
- Many Linux distributions
(though they all has similar/same insides and so version made for Ubuntu should run on Fedora the same way - e.g. SimCity 3000 made available for Linux by Loki works everywhere).

Pros (+):
- Linux is a fast platform (Linux + OpenGL is faster than Windows + DirectX or OpenGL)
- Linux is free to everyone and simple to use - at least some, but I think many Windows users would change their system if there was more games available for Linux
(what better choice do they have? Windows 8? No one wants that crap )
- MS Windows are going to use their own Windows Store in Windows 8. On Windows for ARM, this is the only way to sell software.
Since Windows 9, Windows Store may be the only place for selling software even for a PC. Then, Microsoft can do whatever the want (increase taxes, ban apps from developers they do not like, ...).
Linux is based on open ideology and such effort is immediately killed by the community. [to Auran: Develop on Linux and protect your own business's future]


I think Linux has enough users already for making profit. It would pay development (there are some players already) and it would certainly attract more users to Linux (and so more customers). I think Auran should use Linux as a weapon against Microsoft and by doing so they could easily negotiate better terms on Windows + help Linux as a side effect.

 

[AntonyVW]

I agree with much of what has been said for and against Linux. But I for one would buy a Linux version. After all to get hold of Linux is not going to cost me apart from time downloading it. I guess Im in a better position than some though as Ive already dabbled in it over several years - trying it out - leaving it alone and going back to it again. It does have its drawbacks but I think if MS is going to bottle things up the way it seems to want to then I think that people will need to start to consider other options.

 

[RRSignal]

- MS Windows are going to use their own Windows Store in Windows 8. On Windows for ARM, this is the only way to sell software.
Since Windows 9, Windows Store may be the only place for selling software even for a PC. Then, Microsoft can do whatever the want (increase taxes, ban apps from developers they do not like, ...).

Well, that's a given. We knew that over a decade ago when this whole "Trustworthy Computing" bull started. But, you bring up a good point in that N3V should start looking at alternatives to the inevitable extortion Microsoft will be pulling.

 

[shaneturner12]

I cannot see that happening, as the EU Commission will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

They've already forced them to give users a choice of browser.

Shane

 

[AntonyVW]

I cannot see that happening, as the EU Commission will come down on them like a ton of bricks.

They've already forced them to give users a choice of browser.

Shane

That may be true Shane but the last time I reinstalled my os I was not given that choice as previously. I had to go do that for myself. Im wondering if MS has 'forgotten' that little clause.

 

[shaneturner12]

The EU are already aware of that glitch, don't worry.

MS are having to make sure that they keep to their agreement or face heavy fines (and possibly more).

Shane

 

[martin-cz]

Microsoft has power to rule the world. If they want to gain profit from selling 3rd party software (and they want), they can achieve this. But only on their platform.
Linux is a great choice for developers. No restrictions and absolutely open platform - to everyone.

 

[shaneturner12]

I agree on that one. The only problem they've got is to get hardware developers (especially graphics card makers) to develop suitable drivers for their products to run in Linux.

Shane

P.S. Microsoft do not have power over regulators.

 

[martinZl]

That is no longer a problem. I know you don't like Valve, but they cooperate with Nvidia, AMD and Intel on Linux drivers and it is already a success.
I myself have combination of Ubuntu and Nvidia on 4 desktops and 1 laptop - and have no problem with it. It really works fine and I can play games like Heroes of Newerth or Unigine's Oil Rush on it.

 

[shaneturner12]

If they can sort out the drivers, then there's a chance of Trainz running on it.

Shane

P.S. Just wondering, do you actually have any versions of Trainz? It's not a problem if you haven't actually got Trainz yet.

 

[martinZl]

Sorry, I don't. I only wish to play it on Linux once.

 

[shaneturner12]

Fair enough. Perhaps someone should create a Suggestion Boxcar thread on it, or even suggest it via the Helpdesk.

Shane

 

[johnwhelan]

Ok, so let's summarize it. Why should or why should not Auran develop a Linux version of Trainz.


Pros (+):
- Linux is a fast platform (Linux + OpenGL is faster than Windows + DirectX or OpenGL)
- Linux is free to everyone and simple to use - at least some, but I think many Windows users would change their system if there was more games available for Linux

OpenGL was designed for graphical Unix workstations. It was not designed for high performance games. In general DirectX is faster than OpenGL and not tied into a graphic card vendor such as nVidia. Most performance these days comes from the drivers or how the software can access the hardware. The market for Windows is larger so that's where the most effort is placed in getting decent drivers.

You can minimize a UNIX installation and cut out unwanted bits of the operating system to gain CPU cycles but this sort of customization is not that easy to do and the gains can be wiped out by a new bit of hardware that responds differently. VMWare for example works by emulating the hardware environment but it doesn't emulate the latest hardware so you get a performance hit compared to running natively on the latest drivers. The other point about this is do you care? Hardware these days is cheap. Drop in an SSD for a $100 or so and who cares if it is the fastest operating system around, it runs Trainz with a reasonable frame rate and for most people that is enough.

Easy to use, we used to think it took 6 months to train a Windows administrator, and six years to train a UNIX one. That costs money. Unless you can wrap up the complexity UNIX dies on Total Cost of Ownership. Gartner figures in the corporate world used to be $2,000 to buy the computer and $11,000 to support it on the desk top for a year.

The hardware to watch at the moment is the new Google Nexus 7 built by ASUS. That is the one that has Microsoft worried and probably N3V too. Trainz on Android costs 2.99 not 49.99 and that means less income. Could it replace a PC? It could probably displace a few lap tops.

Cheerio John

 

[pcas1986]

I think the choice of operating systems really comes down to the suite of software applications you use. If N3V decided to port Trainz to a Linux flavour then I would buy it immediately - out of interest if nothing else. But it would have to be the full capability and not a cut down version. While reading this thread I realised that most of the apps I would use already have equivalents in Linux - except for a finance package I like and maybe that is available for Linux. I haven't checked.

But, while waiting to see how Win 8 takes off or flops like Vista, I will stay with Win 7 and continue to play with Ubuntu from time to time.

 

[martin-cz]

I would like to add this article on zdnet.com to this thread.

It is interesting how long it took vendors to start considering Linux. But there are reasons for that:
1. Microsoft did play a big role mainly on Windows, but now they are attempting to develop their own hardware (a direct competitor for Acer, HP, Dell, ...) and have a strict restrictions towards those, who sell devices with Windows. == Microsoft is trying to sell everything (even software and other 3rd party content) and get rid of others, who do not follow their rules exactly.
2. Linux is in development since 1991. However, until 2008 I would say it was not much user-friendly system but thanks to Ubuntu (mainly) it has changed.
Now, the latest stable version of Ubuntu (12.04) is by all means the best Ubuntu ever released because it: uses more stable API, is a long term supported version, has very user-friendly interface (very usable with PC but also on touch screen) and its unity interface is now very stable and fast.
Ubuntu's release cycles consist of long-term supported versions LTS (released every 2 years) and then 3 normal versions (released in half year period between LTS). Those LTS are great for companies and users requiring very stable system. On the other hand, if you upgrade Ubuntu each 6 months you'll benefit from a bunch of exciting new features and improvements each time - albeit it is all stable and usable.

And why am I saying this? Just to prove to you Linux is stable, usable and can satisfy many users. I hope Auran will change their approach to Linux. Looking forward to it

And btw. I've submitted this to the Suggestion Boxcar: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?91601-Add-support-for-Linux

 

[andyjenk2]

Is this (still?) true?

This has been discussed before.

Unfortunately, quite a few things are missing in Linux (including DirectX support, .NET Framework support, and possibly some OpenGL support).

Trainz requires all 3 of these to function properly.

Shane

Does Android have the above and if so does it have things that Linux doesn't? I would have thought that having a Linux Trainz would make development FOR Android easier for all concerned, or is everything directly portable from PC / Mac to Android? I'm sure that there are many who love Trainz on Android but would happily pay fror more DLC if it could be used there. I rarely use my Windows Laptop now and would quite happily switch to Linux. After all, much of the software I used on Windows recently was developed on Linux first.

 

[shaneturner12]

Trainz Android was a complete re-write, and any Linux desktop versions would require a large investment.

Shane

 

[rjhowie]

Tried Linux on another machine and found it quite a curiosity. Takes a lot less space (Ubunto), free (!) and very simple although you are working with a Microsoft mind legacy! Came across a Linux version called Zorin (free and paid version) that has been created to make it easier for Windows people to move to the alternative with less fears.

 

[AntonyVW]

Im not sure how many of you are aware of the hype surrounding Windows 8, but if that is the way microsoft is heading then there has to be an alternative. Another well know game I play besides Trainz was asked to submit their code for verification to be allowed to sell it on windows 8 apps site and at a 30% cut of the profits for microsoft. They basically told microsoft where to go. Why should we be forced to buy only from microsoft? This is just pure greed. Like many I prefer to buy directly from the author (in this case N3V). Linux may have its quirkls - and may not be capable of playing many games out of the box, but it is improving. With Steam and the like of them selling via Ubuntu it should encourage the Linux community to move this area of the OS forward. Im all for seeing a Linux version of Trainz and many other games too.