Trainz 2022 Needs to Move Forward—Not Backward

J

jwyant01

New member
Surveyor 2.0 isn’t just a new interface. It’s a philosophy. It’s modular, immersive, and built for creators who treat every asset as part of a living system. I’ve fully transitioned—and I believe it’s time Trainz does too.
Surveyor 1.0 still lingers in Trainz 2022. And while some users rely on it, its continued presence fragments the platform, slows innovation, and forces devs to maintain two diverging logic paths.
Trainz 2022 should represent forward momentum—streamlined workflows, modern logic, and unified editing tools. Surveyor 2.0 delivers that. Surveyor 1.0, by contrast, anchors the platform to outdated conventions.
If N3V is serious about modular evolution, Surveyor 1.0 should be fully retired in the next major update or simulator release. Give users the tools and documentation to transition confidently—and commit to the future.
Trainz deserves consistency. Builders deserve clarity. And the community deserves a platform that evolves with purpose. Surveyor 2.0 is that platform. Let’s stop straddling the past.
Legacy isn’t about clinging to old tools. It’s about honoring what worked—and building what’s next. Surveyor 2.0 is what’s next.
 
I've been in Trainz since the TRS2006 days. What immediately set it aside from other sims was how simple Surveyor was compared to, say, MSTS. Surveyor 2.0 is cool, but it's quite complicated, I think. I can see where it could come in handy for those that take this seriously, DLC developers, for example. I still consider myself a casual, and for a casual like me, Surveyor Classic still does everything I need and more, and I think it keeps route building accessible for all users.

But I could just be stubborn, I don't know.

Matt
 
I have (almost) fully transitioned from Surveyor Classic to Surveyor 2.0. That transition took me about a year after about 20 years of using Classic. The only time I revert to Classic is to use its more flexible but slower (I have actually compared the time taken for the task in each interface) Bulk Asset Update/Replace feature.

Yes Surveyor 2.0, like any user interface, can be improved.

I love the fact that a scene in Surveyor 2.0 without its spinning white and yellow spline circles is far less cluttered, and therefore far more "visible", and that you can select and simultaneously manipulate multiple object of different types. Checking an entire length of track for broken links is one double click away. 3D movements, such as tilting objects to odd angles (not possible in Classic) are easy in S2.0. Surveyor 2.0 has made significant improvements to my productivity and enjoyment as well as lowering my frustration levels.

But Classic should not be removed as an interface option. There are many, often older users of which I am a proud foundation member, who would find it difficult if not impossible to make the transition from Classic to S2.0 or S3.0. Trainz is a hobby, it is not an application used by professional designers who would be expected to "keep up with the current standards".

My thoughts.
 
Alot of people aren't using the new version. I have tried 2.0 several times, And always go back to the classic. The new version to me has a nice clean interface, But to complex for my brain, I hate to say. It also just doesn't feel finished to me. The circles to lay track is a big problem for me. Thats the way i line up my splines on just about everything. That's just my opinion. If the classic is removed, I guess i will force myself to learn a new way regardless of how frustrating it might be.
 
Forester1 said:
got a deer in the headlights look
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nugget2225 said:
But to complex for my brain, I hate to say.
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Yes, it is a steep learning curve and my initial response was that I would never be able to master it. But start with the small easy things - such as adding and moving objects. I immediately realised how much easier and more versatile Surveyor 2.0 was. Other, more complex, tasks took longer but I eventually came to see how much more powerful and efficient Surveyor 2.0 was.

If you haven't already seen them there are two very large, and I hope, comprehensive documents on how to use the Surveyor 2.0 Tools and Palettes on the Trainz Wiki. They are based on my experiences and those of other users in these forums. Before using S20 take a look at them, pick something simple and then try it out in Surveyor 2.0. Small steps.
 
pware said:
Yes, it is a steep learning curve and my initial response was that I would never be able to master it. But start with the small easy things - such as adding and moving objects. I immediately realised how much easier and more versatile Surveyor 2.0 was. Other, more complex, tasks took longer but I eventually came to see how much more powerful and efficient Surveyor 2.0 was.

If you haven't already seen them there are two very large, and I hope, comprehensive documents on how to use the Surveyor 2.0 Tools and Palettes on the Trainz Wiki. They are based on my experiences and those of other users in these forums. Before using S20 take a look at them, pick something simple and then try it out in Surveyor 2.0. Small steps.
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The issue I have with 2.0 is when it comes to copy and paste. It overwrites everything. In classic, the F5 tab you can select a certain area, copy and paste without erasing everything in its path.
 
AdvancedApproach said:
The issue I have with 2.0 is when it comes to copy and paste. It overwrites everything.
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Then you are not doing it correctly.

Copy and Paste in S20 works through the Scrapbook, which has its own palette that controls what is pasted and how it is pasted. It also allows you to paint with the contents of the Scrapbook as well.

There are two methods of using the Copy function. Either use the:-
  • Marquee Tool to draw out a selection area containing all the objects you want included in the copy, or
  • Free Move Tool or Fine Adjustment Tool to select individual objects to be included in the copy.
In both cases you can use filters to include/exclude the items to be selected.

Before using the Paste function, open the Scrapbook Palette and its Filters (click the small arrowhead next to the name Filters) to select which types of objects will be pasted and how they will be pasted (and that includes the options of None, Overwrite and Add) for each category of object. If you have Overwrite selected (the default, which is the cause of your problem) then all the existing objects in the area will be erased and replaced by the Paste operation. Add will simply add the items in the Scrapbook to those that are already there.

See the Trainz Wiki at Pasting_a_Scrapbook for a detailed description of the Paste process and the Scrapbook Palette for a detailed description of all its options and its Filter settings.
 
I started TrainZ with Surveyor V2, which reminds me of other programs I use. So I adopted it without really looking at the classic version. The only thing I use the latter for is copy/paste set to gray and oriented in 90-degree steps. For the rest, I find the classic version complicated.
 
Therock said:
let's maybe focus on actually being able to do everything in surveyor 2 that is currently still only possible in surveyor 1 before getting rid of it.
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And more taking into account that in Surveyor 1.0 you can drag more accurately any scenery than in S2.0.
 
ajrf said:
in Surveyor 1.0 you can drag more accurately any scenery than in S2.0.
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I just tested that claim by using the Move Object tool in S1.0 and comparing it with the Free Move tool in S2.0. I could see no difference in the direction or distance moved between the two.

S2.0 also allows you to move (or rotate) multiple objects, even when they are different types (e.g. a spline object and a scenery object), at the same time.

S2.0 also gives you another option, the Fine Adjustment tool, which allows the same movement control as the Free Move tool but also allows you to restrict movement to the X, Y and Z directions only. The Fine Adjustment tool also allows you to rotate most objects through their Pitch and Roll directions - which S1.0 will not let you do.

In addition, S2.0 has a third option, the Info Palette, which allows you to make very precise movements in all the possible directions and rotations by entering exact numerical values down to 0.01m and 0.01 degrees.

It is all in the Trainz Wiki at Move a Scenery Mesh Object
 
pware said:
Then you are not doing it correctly.

Copy and Paste in S20 works through the Scrapbook, which has its own palette that controls what is pasted and how it is pasted. It also allows you to paint with the contents of the Scrapbook as well.

There are two methods of using the Copy function. Either use the:-
  • Marquee Tool to draw out a selection area containing all the objects you want included in the copy, or
  • Free Move Tool or Fine Adjustment Tool to select individual objects to be included in the copy.
In both cases you can use filters to include/exclude the items to be selected.

Before using the Paste function, open the Scrapbook Palette and its Filters (click the small arrowhead next to the name Filters) to select which types of objects will be pasted and how they will be pasted (and that includes the options of None, Overwrite and Add) for each category of object. If you have Overwrite selected (the default, which is the cause of your problem) then all the existing objects in the area will be erased and replaced by the Paste operation. Add will simply add the items in the Scrapbook to those that are already there.

See the Trainz Wiki at Pasting_a_Scrapbook for a detailed description of the Paste process and the Scrapbook Palette for a detailed description of all its options and its Filter settings.
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Yes but it's more trouble than its wort for me. Another thing is when the textures are applied it looks really ugly. I'll show you what that means in a few minutes on my other thread. I'm screenshotting my new WIP route. From there you'll see how pixated the textures look even when the intensity and scale is at bare minimum percentages.
 
pware said:
I use all three options in different categories when I paste - None, Overwrite and Add - so it is definitely worth the trouble for me.
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They work for the scrapbook but don't work for a simple copy and paste or cut and paste.

Rotating selected objects also rotates the textures underneath the marquee area. This makes minor adjustments impossible and becomes worse when there's some lage due existing objects being wiped out along with a big texture smear replacing any existing textures.

Speaking of the scrapbook. While it's great for a lot of things, placing down a scrapbook is as accurate as throwing pieces of paper on the floor and expecting them to line up.

What would be a nice thing to have is to have scrapbook clipping objects display has a faint outline prior to pasting them down. This would be helpful when aligning roads and buildings because cutting and pasting leaves textures behind and copying and pasting destroys everything in its wake.
 
epa said:
I've been in Trainz since the TRS2006 days. What immediately set it aside from other sims was how simple Surveyor was compared to, say, MSTS. Surveyor 2.0 is cool, but it's quite complicated, I think. I can see where it could come in handy for those that take this seriously, DLC developers, for example. I still consider myself a casual, and for a casual like me, Surveyor Classic still does everything I need and more, and I think it keeps route building accessible for all users.

But I could just be stubborn, I don't know.

Matt
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I use 1.0 when editing. 2.0 is quite beyond my old brain😊
 
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