Trainz 2009 World Builder - Don't Buy It

[aardvark1]

.........snip....However, these days if I had knew that this forum existed, .......snip

Can you now see my point?

Cheers,
Woody

Hi again Woody,

It may be questionable as to what percentage of people know that this forum exists.

I can not be sure, but if they are not registered, they probably will not be able to see the various product forums anyway, but, please correct me if I am wrong.

There are people who, like yourself, take the time to do some research on a product they want to purchase, but many people are just "sold" by the "eye candy" they see on the package or what they may read in some sort of advertisement. Sum that up in one word... Marketing.

To answer you question... no... I do not see your point. People mostly purchase things on impulse, not by research.

With warmest regards,

 

[johnwhelan]

Is this any different to what TrainzTuner does in TRS2004?

John

Yes its lighter on the machine for the same distance.

Cheerio John

 

[illinoiscentral]

Hi again Woody,

It may be questionable as to what percentage of people know that this forum exists.

I can not be sure, but if they are not registered, they probably will not be able to see the various product forums anyway, but, please correct me if I am wrong.

There are people who, like yourself, take the time to do some research on a product they want to purchase, but many people are just "sold" by the "eye candy" they see on the package or what they may read in some sort of advertisement. Sum that up in one word... Marketing.

To answer you question... no... I do not see your point. People mostly purchase things on impulse, not by research.

With warmest regards,

You are very right, most people do buy on impulse, which in my opinoin is not wise. In fact I know someone who recently bought a used "rental" car...that was very impulsive and they now complain that it runs poorly.
Perhaps you can relate this to buying software, but I don't know, that really depends on the person.
You have a very wise view on this issue and I respect you highly for that.
Basically I'm saying that it would be nice if less people would buy Trainz on impulse, that way we would see less waste of time threads such as this one.
Once again, I have enjoyed reading your opinoins, very well writen by the way.


Cheers,
Woody

 

[CP702]

 

[john_goddard]

My only concern with trs2009 is the delay in production of trees that work in native mode. If and when this is sorted I will certainly think it was worth the money! John.

 

[angelah]

Vern

So far as the one (poor) German language scenario on my Glasgow to Falkirk route - which seems to keep on ticking - in TS2009 is concerned... Had Auran asked, I would have been more than happy to put together a few fresh scenarios and/or maybe extend/improve the route free of charge to contribute to the new version. Not only did they not ask, but when I offered on DevNet to build a new route to the best standards of TRS2006 it was shot down as not being what they wanted. Rather ironic then the same people then bundle old content in TS2009 but fail to ensure there are at least updated and useable scenarios!

Not very professional.

Before 09 was issued I was asked by a member of Auran's Team if I would mind if one of my routes was included. I said they could, it was freeware after all and created by their program.
I heard nothing more, the idea apparently dumped.
Add to my efforts many more routes creators of high quality that send their work to the DS and there was no shortage of content to include on a new CD release.
It does seem, even though I try to support Auran in their efforts, that it is a case of the same old thing all over again. (EDIT: As far as content only, I mean)

Angela

 

[Vern]

Sorry for (slight) bump.

Re Glasgow to Falkirk...

I was contemplating redoing the route in TRS2009 anyway, using Transdem for more accurate terrain and distances, maybe extending it a bit. However at the moment I've started something a bit further south in TC3 so it's gone on the back burner until I either finish or abandon that particular project. Also TS2009 does not like my laptop at all, even stretching a spline out the graphics are playing catch-up but it is something I would like to do. Maybe I'll run the construction in tandem with my TC3 route.

 

[Tiger313]

You know, I have yet to find the switch for native-mode and compatibility-mode? :hehe:

 

[BN1970]

Allow me to throw my 2 cents worth in here, if I could....

True, Auran has pushed World Builder onto the masses probably earlier than they really should have; however, given the state of the economy right now, funds were probably needed to keep the software development afloat. Should Auran have been a little more forthcoming with exactly what we were getting? Probably. Did Auran warn us that the content and routes were not going to be new? Yes, they did. Did they state that WBE was going to be more of a updated gaming platform, one that can (and will) be upgraded as time progresses? Yes.

This being said, Auran does have a long way to go; but at least someone is still up to the task of giving us a simulator based on newer gaming platforms. It will just take time. I have spent a couple of months now testing for SP2, and I can tell you they are trying to work on as many bugs as humanly possible; but there is no magic bullet that will fix everything instantly. It has to be done a piece at a time, and sometimes it can be painfully slow. But at least they are trying, and with the knowlegeable people out here in forumland, I expect WBE to only get better.

To kind of place WBE in perspective with other games, namely RailWorks, I have both and can tell you this so far about my experiences with both of them:

Railworks, while graphically better so far than WBE, is prone on my machine to crashing quite frequently. WBE has never crashed for me. Trainz also has a much better library of North American rolling stock and locomotives. RailWorks (even when touted as RailSimulator) seems to have always worked harder to supply the European interests while leaving the North American side sadly lacking. When I corresponded with RS about that, I never got any comments back. In all the time RS has been out they have only released ONE North American freightcar pack, and NO locomotive packs. But they sure crank out the British and European packs and routes. This is where Auran fills the void: North American content.

And now a word on reskinning of the product: Auran makes it very easy to access the model via CM2 and allows my PSP program to make an easy reskin as it makes use of TGA image files. RailWorks uses TGPCDX files for it's images, requiring the use of 3rd party developer tools to open the TGPCDX files, convert them to DDS files, convert those DDS files to BMP files, do your editing, then reverse the method to finish the job. It can be a tedious task, for sure.

Each simulator has it pros and cons, but for me it seems Auran is leading the pack with the most pros so far. I think if RailWorks would start paying attention to its North American customers more, and providing more North American content to supplement its software, they would most certainly give Auran a run for their money; it's just that I haven't seen anything from them yet to lead me to any conclusions that they are working on it.

If I was Auran, I would look into what it is that is luring people towards RailWorks and try to incorporate that into future service packs.

 

[Vern]

I'm waiting until July for the DVD version of RW but given the general reports from the Steam buyers so far, it seems to be RS SP3 + content, rather than a new sim. It has more fundamental disadvantages compared to TRS in any of its guises from '004 onwards than a lack of North American based resources!

If I was Auran, I would look into what it is that is luring people towards RailWorks and try to incorporate that into future service packs.

I think I'm exactly the opposite as every time I try to start building a route in RS, I end up heading back to TRS!

 

[hminky]

Railworks is like a gelding horse, looks great and is fun to ride. Beyond that it takes "voodoo" to get a car to function and develop a proto-route map.

Railworks also has that dreadful MSTS style train interface. Try to throw the right switch/junction.

Harold

 

[jeffmorris]

I was hoping for Auran to release a new version of Trainz but I think that Auran ran into problems. I think that I wasted money on Railworks because it's still hard for me to create content for Railworks. I think that Railworks is like Rail Simulator with SP3 and new content. The developer of Railworks and Rail Simulator removed the forum and download section from their website. I bought "The Sims 3" game and I thought that the game keeps me "busy" watching the "people" interact with each other in the town.

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

I think I'm exactly the opposite as every time I try to start building a route in RS, I end up heading back to TRS!

You just can't stay away from Surveyour, can you Vern? TBH, I've tried other sims and nothing and I mean nothing compares to Surveyour. Its the easiest, most powerful tool given to you in any train sim, simple by desgin and nature.

Microsoft created a route tool, but you had to fork out loads to buy the bl***y book to use it!
RailSim made an attempt of it, but made a mess of it (I never got on with it, because, it was too precise and diffcult to modify, plus, making a length of straight track about a mile long, took 10 hours.)
etc, etc, etc.

RailSim seems to be this competitor to Trainz, yet what they tried to copy from MSTS and Trainz, failed miserably. A year after the product is released, there is still little content with it, whereas with trainz, there were about 500-1000 assets in the first year and it was free. RailSim seems to be this market that encourages payware to flourish, or most payware creators flock to RailSim. (I'm not, my content is not good enough for Rail Sim.)

Anyway, TS09, I think really, the bits you don't see, its a nice improvement, we get a lot more bang for our buck when it comes to speed and draw distances for example, which is what we could of dreamed of years ago, but now a reality. Content is getting better, the latest ones show you what CAN be done, but it takes time for Content Creators to adapt. And I am looking into messing with the scripting system which is suppose to be far more vast than 04/06/TC, some of it can be backwards compatible as well.

Another thing is, has anyone who demand TS2009 to be near perfect, actually tried to create a complicated program in C++? I have and it is quite difficult. C++ is a wonderful and flexible language to learn with, but it is soo vast (25,000 libraries that a tutor quoted me, in the .net framework), you sometimes use something that doesn't quite do the job, or you end up making duplicates, with errors. And the worst errors you get, are runtime errors. (There are 3 types of errors, Syntax Errors which are caused by mistyping, Compiler errors which happen when the program is being translated into code the computer can read and runtime errors which only happen when the program is running.)
Runtime errors are also the most difficult to solve, thats when you get a beta testing team to test your program thoroughly. Then it gets a lot more complicated.

 

[mikeaust]

I don't know why everyone complains about Trainz.
There is a perfectly good Trainz that runs almost bug free, it is called 2004.
It has a simple download helper, that when coupled with Trainz Objects can do most of the things the fancy Cmp/Cm2 can do. Download Helper rarely breaks down and can access DLS 90% of the time.

I ran Win98 for many years when XP came out. When it got to SP2 I made the change and had very few hassles.
Same goes for any software updating, wait till it runs ok then get it.
Stop whining about the bugs, just live with them.

The problem is that everyone has to have the latest technology immediately.....I ask the Question...WHY!!!!!
Cheers,
Mike

 

[johnwhelan]

I don't know why everyone complains about Trainz.
There is a perfectly good Trainz that runs almost bug free, it is called 2004.
It has a simple download helper, that when coupled with Trainz Objects can do most of the things the fancy Cmp/Cm2 can do. Download Helper rarely breaks down and can access DLS 90% of the time.

I ran Win98 for many years when XP came out. When it got to SP2 I made the change and had very few hassles.
Same goes for any software updating, wait till it runs ok then get it.
Stop whining about the bugs, just live with them.

The problem is that everyone has to have the latest technology immediately.....I ask the Question...WHY!!!!!
Cheers,
Mike

Because as a content creator I'm fed up with trying to correct items for TRS2004. Trying to sort out problems in it is a pain in the neck. Different content can interfere with each other meaning that its very difficult to track down and clear an intermittent fault. Plus it doesn't have some of the scripting stuff that is in the later versions.

Cheerio John

 

[baz66]

The origianal thread posted was a very disgruntled buyer who did not see the value in 2009. since then we,ve gone on to compare editions, question aurans reputation and damn other brand railroad sims. The original question could be answered quite easily. perbro1953, you haven,t had the game long enough to make such statements. I started with 2004 and it took a year before I began to see what a treasure it was. Sure it had faults and drawbacks but 98% of the time it did what I wanted. 2009 is like opening a door to a new world.With 100,000+ assets available I have more available than ever before. Does,nt matter what it came with. I can,t wait to see what the CC,s will come up with in the future. I only with I could get my nut around the difficulties of creating. I can,t so I must be content to be a user,not a doer.
baz

 

[applegathc]

Hello,

As a novice I find Trainz 2009 World Builder a travesty of poor construction.

Firstly I don't speak or know German... so what use are the German scenarios to me when I can not translate the instructions???

Secondly the scenarios I can access in many cases fail to operate properly as the trains conflict, the signals shunt me out of the scenario and the rules do not act as one should expect a professional piece of software to operate.

I get left waiting for signals to change despite timetable, then I can not operate the switches to manage the track and the reports from other trains are confusing because I am not aware of their timetables or instructions.

Very Disappointing

So if you are english limited and don't want to be materially disadvantaged by the limitations of TRAINZ 2009- World Builder scenarios then save your money. Don't buy it. 50% of the programme is unavailable to you and 20% of the rest does not work....

Surveyor is great if you have the time and patience to build a scenario, but even the downloads from the TRAINZ Site are poor and do not operate properly.

So much for amateurs....

Lindsay

Uhh buddy? Ever heard of Service packs?

Get out from under your rocks people.:hehe:

cam

 

[pommie]

I don't know why everyone complains about Trainz.
There is a perfectly good Trainz that runs almost bug free, it is called 2004.
It has a simple download helper, that when coupled with Trainz Objects can do most of the things the fancy Cmp/Cm2 can do. Download Helper rarely breaks down and can access DLS 90% of the time.

I ran Win98 for many years when XP came out. When it got to SP2 I made the change and had very few hassles.
Same goes for any software updating, wait till it runs ok then get it.
Stop whining about the bugs, just live with them.

The problem is that everyone has to have the latest technology immediately.....I ask the Question...WHY!!!!!
Cheers,
Mike

Because if everybody did what you are telling them to do, there would not be any sales to support the bug squashing and therefore no new software.

For crying out loud, the op is entitled to his/her opinion and as he/she has paid for the software has the right to express that opinion on these forums, if you disagree that's fine, you also have the right to your opinion and the right to express them, but that does not give you the right to put them down with comments like "you should of researched the product before buying" or "you have only just bought the product".
IMHO, The biggest fault Auran has, (up till just lately) is a lack of presence in these forums, when John Banks was in charge of the forums explanations were given out quickly and often thus killing a lot of this type of thread before they could become prolific like they are now, I am in no way saying bring John back, but some frequent Auran presence is needed, maybe Zec will work out in this role, I hope he does.

/me gets down of his soap box

Cheers David

 

[KClass]

Hello,

As a novice I find Trainz 2009 World Builder a travesty of poor construction.

Firstly I don't speak or know German... so what use are the German scenarios to me when I can not translate the instructions???

Secondly the scenarios I can access in many cases fail to operate properly as the trains conflict, the signals shunt me out of the scenario and the rules do not act as one should expect a professional piece of software to operate.

I get left waiting for signals to change despite timetable, then I can not operate the switches to manage the track and the reports from other trains are confusing because I am not aware of their timetables or instructions.

Very Disappointing

So if you are english limited and don't want to be materially disadvantaged by the limitations of TRAINZ 2009- World Builder scenarios then save your money. Don't buy it. 50% of the programme is unavailable to you and 20% of the rest does not work....

Surveyor is great if you have the time and patience to build a scenario, but even the downloads from the TRAINZ Site are poor and do not operate properly.

So much for amateurs....

Lindsay

Well you have only two other main avenues in that case my friend...
1- Don't have a Railway hobby on the computer at all.
2- Download RailWorks instead.

Whilst I have to agree that TRS has not met with many of my expectations, I am hopeful that future development will be fruitful.
I have both RailWorks and TRS2009. And at the end of the day, its all about what you want from your simulator really.
If you are after stunning eye candy, but little to do in game, go with RailWorks. But Railworks, whilst having an editor, is the most overly complicated editor system ever devised. I, after many years of trial and error, have managed to fathom it, and if anyone would like to take the degree course I am offering send me a message and we can discuss a price (being sarcastic)
If you want something with more depth and functionality, then you go with TRS. TRS's editor is much easier to use, or at least I have found it easier after going grey using the RW one anyway.
RW has very little in the way of payware or freeware content to addon, sure there are two expansions from the Rail Simulator first edition, but they dont exactly add all that much, your still driving a cab along a line or shunting a few bits of rolling stock around, thats about it.
I like eye candy, and RailWorks certainly runs rings around TRS in that department, but thats why I have both sims. Some people rant and slag RW and call it things like "the enemy" and whatever, I believe that both sims have their own charm. If however, as has been promised by the Rail Works team, major development is going to take place, and it will have to be major. I may just use Railworks in the future, it all depends on what additional functionality they decide to add to it.
TRS allows you to do a lot more with the sim itself rather than drool over the exterior views, and whilst drooling over exterior views does have its moments, it also gets boring after a while too.
So there you have it, thats my opinion anyway, yes its true some of the content included in WBE is in the wrong language, but as already stated there is a fix for that, yes its true that all of the routes and scenarios included are from previous editions, but many of them are still good, and if you want something more significant, well, you know where your wallet is, cause addon payware is the way to go, and before you kick off and say, why should I pay more money, dont forget, that RailWorks has very little in the way of difference to Rail Simulator, and without the two offical expansions they released previously, theres even less.
And, again as someone has pointed out, research is the key, read reviews, and not just the official ones, before making decisions.

 

[Joshua0527]

I am going to buy the Trainz 2009,
I hope it won't disappoint me...