I've seen it mentioned by US Trainzers but this is the first time I've seen it on the other side of the drink.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16760464
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16760464
Trainspotting Terrorist
- Thread starter pfx
- Start date
BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
I can understand the issue, how many of you "train spotters" take pictures & collect reg. numbers of vehicles going in & out of the street where you live ?
This guy sounds like he is either an 'obsesive compulsive' or he is collecting data for terrorist uses, either way, he is a danger to himself or others, & needs either locking up or psychiatric help.
I'll cede to those who are better to judge, i.e. the Judiciary, because turning a "blind eye" could possibly lead to a lot of innocent people getting hurt or killed.
This guy sounds like he is either an 'obsesive compulsive' or he is collecting data for terrorist uses, either way, he is a danger to himself or others, & needs either locking up or psychiatric help.
I'll cede to those who are better to judge, i.e. the Judiciary, because turning a "blind eye" could possibly lead to a lot of innocent people getting hurt or killed.
I was taking some photos (careful to be on public property so they couldn't stop me legally) a few weeks ago, and the driver of one train was giving us the evil eye - my boyfriend was sure that he was about to come tell us to pack it in.
Sure enough after about a minute of staring at us, he stormed off down the train towards the 'carriage' nearest us.
As it happens though, it was the usual case of the class 142's doors being unreliable, and the conductor had summoned the driver to kick the door until it closed (guess that kicking dodgy doors is above the pay grade responsibilities of a conductor). After doing so he returned to his cab, stared at us with a scowl for a couple of seconds, and drove off.
all very :hehe: and
worthy(I have a photo of him staring at us while scowling somewhere, but I haven't published it on the net because a) the light was utter rubbish that day, so only 2-3 shots out of a couple of hundred came out remotely 'ok') and b) I actually respect his wishes to not have his ugly mug published on the net, assuming that's why he was scowling at us, and didn't actually have the camera pointed at him until he started creeping us out (the camera was actually pointed at about 20 feet out of the station to capture the trains as they left/arrived.
cascaderailroad
New member
On public property, you can be stopped from photography, if it is of sensitve nature.
On public property in front of: ... etc ... including US Court House, Embassy, Railroad Proprety ... etc ...
Foriegn and domestic dignitaries, millitary personell ... etc ... etc ... train drivers.
If photography of said subject, while on public property (even slightly) jepordizes: national, state, local, security, or distacts or defames RR operators ... etc ... etc
What if someone was taking photos and videos of the twin towers prior to 911 ... that date took alot of your (self thought up) rights away.
Self thought up rights, are things that you take for granted that they are legal rights (when in fact they are not God given legal rights ! It's that they have never been enforced prior to you being detained, and being made a spectacle/example of, a never before enforced violation).
Take photos of a train at an airport terminal ... and 100% you be handcuffed by the TSA, and will be arrested and questioned by MIB. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...lack_Poster.jpg/220px-Men_in_Black_Poster.jpg
Railroads and Operations are of a highly sensitive nature ... and security is jepordized by public photography.
On public property in front of: ... etc ... including US Court House, Embassy, Railroad Proprety ... etc ...
Foriegn and domestic dignitaries, millitary personell ... etc ... etc ... train drivers.
If photography of said subject, while on public property (even slightly) jepordizes: national, state, local, security, or distacts or defames RR operators ... etc ... etc
What if someone was taking photos and videos of the twin towers prior to 911 ... that date took alot of your (self thought up) rights away.
Self thought up rights, are things that you take for granted that they are legal rights (when in fact they are not God given legal rights ! It's that they have never been enforced prior to you being detained, and being made a spectacle/example of, a never before enforced violation).
Take photos of a train at an airport terminal ... and 100% you be handcuffed by the TSA, and will be arrested and questioned by MIB. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...lack_Poster.jpg/220px-Men_in_Black_Poster.jpg
Railroads and Operations are of a highly sensitive nature ... and security is jepordized by public photography.
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In the UK you can only be stopped from taking photos on public property if there is military presence (ie, in front of a military base) AND there is special circumstances (ie, that base is considered on alert).
Anything else is fair game. We also do NOT need permission to take the photograph of an individual if either is on public property.
The fact that you're willing to say 'but, but, 9/11' is exactly why america is a laughing stock when it comes to 'freedom'.
Millions of people took photographs of/from the WTC towers every year, and there is zero evidence of any of the 19 hijackers having done so, either with a SLR or a camera phone.
But feel free to let your freedoms be taken away in the name of the big bad bogeyman.
while I resent The fact that his defense attorney (I assume "Solicitor" means the same thing) is using the fact that he's a nerd and a loner as his defense, I have to agree with you blackwatch. I don't know of many train watchers who record the liscense plates of the vehicles going by. that said, I do know a couple railfans who jot down the numbers of the engines they see, and I've been known to take down the tail numbers of a plane or two that I find different or interesting (Strange Paint Scheme, type I've never seen before, etc.) Heck, I've noted the engines i've seen too.
Still, I have a feeling there's more to this than meets the eye. And while my inner train-lover wants to give him the benefit of the doubt, I hope you'll keep us informed on this subject pfx.
Hi Everybody.
Let's get realistic and sensible here as terrorism is once again on the Increase in Northern Ireland because a few “Nerds” cannot accept that times have moved on and that the vast majority of people in that part of Ireland want a peaceful future based on equality for all sections of society.
The threat of terrorism in the UK comes from any number of sources as the 7/7 bombings of the London Underground clearly demonstrated. Therefore the British transport police and local forces have every right to question anyone they consider acting suspiciously by way of loitering or taking photographs at major terminus station's or at junctions and signalling equipment in the interest of the safety of the many hundreds of thousands of passengers that the British railway system carries everyday.
There is also the fact that the system is regularly disrupted by theft of cables and other equipment which is sold often for little more than its scrap value. The foregoing also carries the threat of accidents caused by the stupidity and self-interest of those carrying out the crimes.
Therefore if you feel you have to do take photographs of the railway and the consists running on it I would suggest that you stay well away from stations, junctions and large equipment sites when you do so. As someone who travels at least 2 to 3 times a week on the UK railway system I wish to feel as safe as possible as the HST I am travelling on reaches 120 mph after leaving London for my evening journey home. Someone taking a photograph of my train at London Paddington is in all probability doing so in total innocence. However, experience has shown that on all too often occasions they are certainly not.
Bill
Let's get realistic and sensible here as terrorism is once again on the Increase in Northern Ireland because a few “Nerds” cannot accept that times have moved on and that the vast majority of people in that part of Ireland want a peaceful future based on equality for all sections of society.
The threat of terrorism in the UK comes from any number of sources as the 7/7 bombings of the London Underground clearly demonstrated. Therefore the British transport police and local forces have every right to question anyone they consider acting suspiciously by way of loitering or taking photographs at major terminus station's or at junctions and signalling equipment in the interest of the safety of the many hundreds of thousands of passengers that the British railway system carries everyday.
There is also the fact that the system is regularly disrupted by theft of cables and other equipment which is sold often for little more than its scrap value. The foregoing also carries the threat of accidents caused by the stupidity and self-interest of those carrying out the crimes.
Therefore if you feel you have to do take photographs of the railway and the consists running on it I would suggest that you stay well away from stations, junctions and large equipment sites when you do so. As someone who travels at least 2 to 3 times a week on the UK railway system I wish to feel as safe as possible as the HST I am travelling on reaches 120 mph after leaving London for my evening journey home. Someone taking a photograph of my train at London Paddington is in all probability doing so in total innocence. However, experience has shown that on all too often occasions they are certainly not.
Bill
BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
You have to consider that Mr Lavery (the man in question) is 27 Yrs old, not exactly like the "boys" in your pic.
He "had photographs of vehicles coming in and out of Ballykinlar Army Base."
He also had a list of reg.No's belonging to vehicles coming & going from that base.
Now I don't know how good your memory is, but I recall a recent case of soldiers being ambushed & murdered outside of an army base in N.I.
Don't you think it represents a possible threat to soldiers from that base he was 'monitoring' ?
Reality is it needs investigating.
Hi Everybody.
That could well have been meet in the 1950s. But Britain was a very different place then where internal terrorism was unknown. Unfortunately that is very much not the case today and the police are very fortunately well aware of that, as you will see them carrying semiautomatic weapons almost every day at principal stations throughout Britain especially London.
I am certainly not silly or frightened by the threat as I travelled on the London Underground only two days after the 7/7 bombings when thousands of others were finding alternative transport in the capital.
So, let's have a country that is for the majority especially when it comes to the safety of the farepaying long-suffering regular commuters on the UK railway system and not something which Panders the very small minority who wish to take photographs etc which could endanger others for the sake of their "uman rites"
It Makes you sick
Bill
That could well have been meet in the 1950s. But Britain was a very different place then where internal terrorism was unknown. Unfortunately that is very much not the case today and the police are very fortunately well aware of that, as you will see them carrying semiautomatic weapons almost every day at principal stations throughout Britain especially London.
I am certainly not silly or frightened by the threat as I travelled on the London Underground only two days after the 7/7 bombings when thousands of others were finding alternative transport in the capital.
So, let's have a country that is for the majority especially when it comes to the safety of the farepaying long-suffering regular commuters on the UK railway system and not something which Panders the very small minority who wish to take photographs etc which could endanger others for the sake of their "uman rites"
It Makes you sick
Bill
And what about the many hundreds of aircraft enthusiasts who have legitimate access to software that plots the course of aircraft both commercial and military over the UK. Are they all to be arrested and held in custody?
There are many 'enthusiasts' that take a keen interest in the comings and goings of all types of vehicles, should they be penalized or categorized as sinister characters with sole intent on causing acts of terrorism. I think not.
What makes me sick is when people pull out incredible bile like this. There has never ever ever been a case of a terrorist being caught 'snooping out' a target with a dslr. Never!
Neither have I ever heard of any case of a photographer turning out to be a metal thief. In fact, surely Network rail should be welcoming extra eyes and coverage of their network for when metal thieves DO steal stuff, they might actually be able to identify and arrest them.
The fact of the matter is, they don't do that, the only people you want to put limitations on, are people with good intentions.
And I certainly hope you never take snaps while on holiday, because that would make you a hypocrite.
edit:
It should be noted that the 7/7 bombers did actually do a snooping out of their target. But not with cameras, they used a timetable, and rode the underground a few times as regular passengers.
Maybe we should ban passengers and timetables? Seems that'd be a more apt knee jerk reaction.
Hmmmmm. Not quite how I'd imagined things going when I made the OP but interesting debate nonetheless. Let's hope the thread doesn't get put in jankers for getting too political.
My only thoughts on the 'trainspotter' is that traffic in and out of the bases here tends to consist mainly of civillian vehicles. Army vehicles are exceedingly rarely seen (makes for very bad PR) so I would question his motives if he was taking down private regs. Given the judge refused bail, I would guess that the reg numbers did belong to private vehicles which would be highly suspicious.
There have been a couple of car bombs, one fatal in recent years. There have also been a couple of instances where civillian employees in the PSNI passing on vehicle details to 'other parties' so it's quite easy to see why private regs would be most useful.
I imagine that very little of what goes on here regularly, is reported over the sea. Being in the PSNI or armed forces is still a very dangerous job and if you were, you wouldn't tell anyone, in some cases, not even your family.
My only thoughts on the 'trainspotter' is that traffic in and out of the bases here tends to consist mainly of civillian vehicles. Army vehicles are exceedingly rarely seen (makes for very bad PR) so I would question his motives if he was taking down private regs. Given the judge refused bail, I would guess that the reg numbers did belong to private vehicles which would be highly suspicious.
There have been a couple of car bombs, one fatal in recent years. There have also been a couple of instances where civillian employees in the PSNI passing on vehicle details to 'other parties' so it's quite easy to see why private regs would be most useful.
I imagine that very little of what goes on here regularly, is reported over the sea. Being in the PSNI or armed forces is still a very dangerous job and if you were, you wouldn't tell anyone, in some cases, not even your family.
I don't feel sick but if you feel unwell I suggest you visit your doctor but make sure you don't step on any cracks in the pavement on the way there, if you do the bogeyman will get you.
I think that you need to gather your facts before making such a statement. There may not have ever been a published case of such things happening, but I can assure you that I have personal knowledge that such things have in fact occurred. They just don't get published except in secure briefings and documents.
Mike
Can you prove that you have 'personal knowledge' or are you just saying as such?
Let's just say that in my previous career, I was responsible for designing military facilities to secure and reduce the risk of terrorist attack and as a part of that responsibility, I received regular briefings and information on activities around our facilities. I will not go any further. You can believe me or not, that's your choice. This is not WikiLeaks.
Mike
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Easy to say. I tell people that I use to commission and set to work nuclear reactor instrumentation on submarines but they don't believe me.