This is driving me round the bend

dangavel

Well-known member
Ok, I have a big route, its highly detailed , even with a 12 gb 4070 and 32gb of ram,17, it wont get beyond 30fps.
I can work fine on this route for a while, I watch the FPS , it comes and goes down to 14 / 15 fps if I do something demanding and when I save it drops to 7fps, BUT ,after a while the fps just plunges and it will NOT come back to normal. It stays around 5 fps and I generally have to save ( if I can ) and because it never stops the save process, I have to close down the pc and restart . Just now, I tried to move a rock downward and the frame rate dropped precipitously within a second.

On restart, I can now move around the same area, I can move that rock up and down and the frame rate is firmly on 30fps. So its not due to me doing anything demanding ,its not due to a inefficient asset, as Ive had to chose ones with low draw demands. I've been through all settings and I've optimized them with help from others, it should be ok, so why is this constantly occurring, has anyone ANY ideas ?
 
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I've run into this as well and I'm still trying to figure out what has caused this. Nothing has changed on my system other than a video driver upgrade. Thinking that was the issue, I downgraded to an earlier version that worked okay but that didn't help.

Like you, this occurs over time with some areas dropping down as low as 5 fps before I exit and reboot to bring the performance back again.
 
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I've run into this as well and I'm still trying to figure out what has caused this. Nothing has changed on my system other than a video driver upgrade. Thinking that was the issue, I downgraded to an earlier version that worked okay but that didn't help.

Like you, this occurs over time with some areas dropping down as low as 5 fps before I exit and reboot to bring the performance back again.
poorly Optimized Game that N3V Made... They are lacking Big time in this area.... most systems now a days Run DirectX 12 just fine so why isn't the game upgraded to Run Directx12 is beyond me... I am seeing the same thing happen with my mega route.. Areas i have pretty good scenery Runs completely fine others where its Heavy Dense is where the slow down is. Memory Leak, i don't know but it could be.. I run with 64GB Ram and 12GB RX6600 Radeon GPU... can't figure out what is really going on with the game as well. Hope their is a fix down the road for it because i am out of luck..
 
poorly Optimized Game that N3V Made... They are lacking Big time in this area.... most systems now a days Run DirectX 12 just fine so why isn't the game upgraded to Run Directx12 is beyond me... I am seeing the same thing happen with my mega route.. Areas i have pretty good scenery Runs completely fine others where its Heavy Dense is where the slow down is. Memory Leak, i don't know but it could be.. I run with 64GB Ram and 12GB RX6600 Radeon GPU... can't figure out what is really going on with the game as well. Hope their is a fix down the road for it because i am out of luck..
I agree. It's bloody annoying to no end! They are working on DirectX12 but who knows when that upgrade will occur. In the olden days of the now long-gone original forums, the answer was Soon with a (tm).
 
I remember some threads about potential memory leaks, do you think that could be something to do with it? I don't know if it was ever resolved.
Oh well at least it's not just me. It's got to the state where I cannot delete missing objects , it just seems to freeze in an endless loop. I am considering splitting the route , working on separate sections and then merging it back . This is ridiculous.
 
Have you checked VSync? Maybe setting it to "Full rate" may ease the problem.
funny thing is mine is set to Full Rate and it still bogs down... Post processing and Process Objects behind Camera That N3V was supposed to have taken out in the last HOTFIX but Didn't is the major cause behind this...
 
funny thing is mine is set to Full Rate and it still bogs down... Post processing and Process Objects behind Camera That N3V was supposed to have taken out in the last HOTFIX but Didn't is the major cause behind this...
Process Objects Behind Camera has been taken out. This is a likely cause of a drop in frame rates. The residual option does nothing if you try to unclick it (N3V forgot to remove it)
 
I've run into this as well and I'm still trying to figure out what has caused this. Nothing has changed on my system other than a video driver upgrade. Thinking that was the issue, I downgraded to an earlier version that worked okay but that didn't help.

Like you, this occurs over time with some areas dropping down as low as 5 fps before I exit and reboot to bring the performance back again.
Hi! I remember something from 10 years ago that I was doing on games. I had a bad computer and I was using a game booster to make them work better, which was refreshing memory constantly. I think it may be due to a page file problems or your system has allocated the memory wrong. Maybe check in task manager. Also check your temp on your gpu, had this issue as well and as you were playing it was reching high temps. Probably not this one, however it is worth checking
 
Hi! I remember something from 10 years ago that I was doing on games. I had a bad computer and I was using a game booster to make them work better, which was refreshing memory constantly. I think it may be due to a page file problems or your system has allocated the memory wrong. Maybe check in task manager. Also check your temp on your gpu, had this issue as well and as you were playing it was reching high temps. Probably not this one, however it is worth checking
page file does Nothing in terms for making the game run smoother.. I tried it for a while and it filled my Drives up really fast
 
Hi! I remember something from 10 years ago that I was doing on games. I had a bad computer and I was using a game booster to make them work better, which was refreshing memory constantly. I think it may be due to a page file problems or your system has allocated the memory wrong. Maybe check in task manager. Also check your temp on your gpu, had this issue as well and as you were playing it was reching high temps. Probably not this one, however it is worth checking
Thank you for the suggestions. I think I found the problem and its related only to this route and nothing else. I had merged in a section that is full of splines and whatnot. This particular section has something corrupted in it somewhere among the thousands of assets. At one point, I had a building develop some pointy-things sticking out of it and another send out shadows across the route in that area. A bit after this, there were some big stutters followed by single digit FPS before everything returned to normal. Like mold, this issue spread across the whole area, and even though I yanked splines and lots of extra superfluous stuff off the baseboards, the problem got worse rather than better.

Tonight, I was experimenting and checking around, and after checking older versions, which also happened to exhibit the problem, I went back to my backup from earlier this year, sadly 8-months later and losing lots of nice tweaks later, before the merger and there's no performance problem at all or splines disappearing.
 
Thank you for the suggestions. I think I found the problem and its related only to this route and nothing else. I had merged in a section that is full of splines and whatnot. This particular section has something corrupted in it somewhere among the thousands of assets. At one point, I had a building develop some pointy-things sticking out of it and another send out shadows across the route in that area. A bit after this, there were some big stutters followed by single digit FPS before everything returned to normal. Like mold, this issue spread across the whole area, and even though I yanked splines and lots of extra superfluous stuff off the baseboards, the problem got worse rather than better.

Tonight, I was experimenting and checking around, and after checking older versions, which also happened to exhibit the problem, I went back to my backup from earlier this year, sadly 8-months later and losing lots of nice tweaks later, before the merger and there's no performance problem at all or splines disappearing.
This sound very interesting. If you remember some years ago I messaged you about a problem where splines were refreshing constantly and flickering, which turned out to be resolved by turning full v-sync on. Now I get a mix of what you are saying and my old problem. Basically, I imported a part of a route (a few baseboard). The initial route was huge (thousands of baseboards) and then i deleted all and kept just a station I liked (it was something swedish or something). In that are everything seems to be weird, exactly as you said, splines flickering, drops in fps (maybe not as bad as in your case). Now I really start to wonder if there could be a fix without erasing months of progress. My idea is that the merging process is what corrupts the area, not the initial route. Everything seems perfect on the initial route before the import.


I will tell you what other things I find exploring. What questions I would like to address are:
1. Does the merging process corrupts something in the files or makes something to be unsteady in the route?
2. Can a high number of splines (in the image below) cause flickering or problems?
3. Can this be related to hardware or gpu handling lods on the tracks>
 
This sound very interesting. If you remember some years ago I messaged you about a problem where splines were refreshing constantly and flickering, which turned out to be resolved by turning full v-sync on. Now I get a mix of what you are saying and my old problem. Basically, I imported a part of a route (a few baseboard). The initial route was huge (thousands of baseboards) and then i deleted all and kept just a station I liked (it was something swedish or something). In that are everything seems to be weird, exactly as you said, splines flickering, drops in fps (maybe not as bad as in your case). Now I really start to wonder if there could be a fix without erasing months of progress. My idea is that the merging process is what corrupts the area, not the initial route. Everything seems perfect on the initial route before the import.


I will tell you what other things I find exploring. What questions I would like to address are:
1. Does the merging process corrupts something in the files or makes something to be unsteady in the route?
2. Can a high number of splines (in the image below) cause flickering or problems?
3. Can this be related to hardware or gpu handling lods on the tracks>
I think it's a combination of things. V-sync settings have varied between video card drivers for the longest time and Trainz versions. At the moment, I'm using half V-sync because the full V-sync is too heavy, before that I was using none.

It's a weird problem, I know. This cutting in and out causes tracks to load S L O W L Y with big chunks missing. Roads and fences draw in up close and disappear very quickly only a few meters away. All the while this is occurring, buildings are really slow to load and the FPS drops to something like 5 FPS in that area and this only occurred in the session at first. Hitting pause while driving, would allow everything to load up again and the FPS was better. I had this issue once before due to some passenger cars with a faulty script. Removing these and replacing them with something simpler helped and that was the end of it for the longest time. Thinking this was corrupted rolling stock, I removed various freight cars in blocks based on content creators and replaced them with something else. This didn't help. The tracks and other splines still disappeared or started loading slowly in chunks and I had to hit pause. Once I did that, I could drive until I got to another big area. Since this started in the session, I thought it was some other scripted asset and I removed a bunch of interactive industries and this didn't help at all.

Having said that, I don't think it's the merging process that did this because everything was fine initially. One day, I loaded the route and noticed a building with spikes sticking out of it. This was one of those really old simple cube buildings that are very useful for making cities without causing routes to sink to 1 FPS. I took note of the building, deleted it from my content and downloaded it again from the DLS. A short time later, roughly in the same vicinity, I had another building that had problems. This one sent out shadows across the route and hunting it down was difficult because they would disappear when I got near the area. I eventually deleted that building from the route before downloading the asset again. Like the other building, this one will never be lost due to the sheer number of buildings in the area.

After I removed those two buildings, everything was fine and then in July, there was a big stutter when I entered the area from my own route which I blended really nicely too I may add. Once I rounded the bend in this built-up area, everything was fine. I removed a bunch of industrial buildings, some of which had really, really high polycounts and would never be missed anyway. This helped a lot and I was happy with the results. I also used the opportunity to clean up some things I didn't like in the area. The clean-up helped initially. Running the route a short time later after making changes caused tracks to disappear in various parts of the route again.

After some time, the issue got worse as if the route was rotting. I'd make changes such as removing a bunch of unneeded buildings because the area had buildings against buildings. This helped a bit, but then the problem came back later. I then started removing splines and lots of them such as grass splines. I was going to redo the route with TurfFX and PBR textures and the grass splines didn't look that good, and removing those was no loss. Again, this issue reappeared, causing death to the route. I also replaced many of the fences with others that always loaded fine or removed many of those. This helped a tiny bit.

With the tracks still drawing awful, I switched content creators and went to some built-in, or rather some pro-tracks from N3V from some DLC I don't remember. After replacing the track, everything loaded up and I was happy until the next day when the problem reappeared. I then did more culling after I found many old spline buildings from dmdrake in the city. They're really old and while they fill up areas, again there were way too many of them. I deleted a bunch that were in the background and put in some hills to create a break in the large vast sea of city buildings and industries. This helped a lot and I was happy again for another day.

Now, the problem is worse with, and the problem now occurs in the route editor and when editing in the Session editor when paused. Yesterday, I went back to a previous version of the route, long before the merger, and the problem isn't there. The splines load up fine, although I see some I'd like to replace now, but other than that, I don't lose the tracks in Surveyor. Testing in a driving session will be a whole other matter because I have to recreate the train consists again from scratch.
 
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I think it's a combination of things. V-sync settings have varied between video card drivers for the longest time and Trainz versions. At the moment, I'm using half V-sync because the full V-sync is too heavy, before that I was using none.

It's a weird problem, I know. This cutting in and out causes tracks to load S L O W L Y with big chunks missing. Roads and fences draw in up close and disappear very quickly only a few meters away. All the while this is occurring, buildings are really slow to load and the FPS drops to something like 5 FPS in that area and this only occurred in the session at first. Hitting pause while driving, would allow everything to load up again and the FPS was better. I had this issue once before due to some passenger cars with a faulty script. Removing these and replacing them with something simpler helped and that was the end of it for the longest time. Thinking this was corrupted rolling stock, I removed various freight cars in blocks based on content creators and replaced them with something else. This didn't help. The tracks and other splines still disappeared or started loading slowly in chunks and I had to hit pause. Once I did that, I could drive until I got to another big area. Since this started in the session, I thought it was some other scripted asset and I removed a bunch of interactive industries and this didn't help at all.

Having said that, I don't think it's the merging process that did this because everything was fine initially. One day, I loaded the route and noticed a building with spikes sticking out of it. This was one of those really old simple cube buildings that are very useful for making cities without causing routes to sink to 1 FPS. I took note of the building, deleted it from my content and downloaded it again from the DLS. A short time later, roughly in the same vicinity, I had another building that had problems. This one sent out shadows across the route and hunting it down was difficult because they would disappear when I got near the area. I eventually deleted that building from the route before downloading the asset again. Like the other building, this one will never be lost due to the sheer number of buildings in the area.

After I removed those two buildings, everything was fine and then in July, there was a big stutter when I entered the area from my own route which I blended really nicely too I may add. Once I rounded the bend in this built-up area, everything was fine. I removed a bunch of industrial buildings, some of which had really, really high polycounts and would never be missed anyway. This helped a lot and I was happy with the results. I also used the opportunity to clean up some things I didn't like in the area. The clean-up helped initially. Running the route a short time later after making changes caused tracks to disappear in various parts of the route again.

After some time, the issue got worse as if the route was rotting. I'd make changes such as removing a bunch of unneeded buildings because the area had buildings against buildings. This helped a bit, but then the problem came back later. I then started removing splines and lots of them such as grass splines. I was going to redo the route with TurfFX and PBR textures and the grass splines didn't look that good, and removing those was no loss. Again, this issue reappeared, causing death to the route. I also replaced many of the fences with others that always loaded fine or removed many of those. This helped a tiny bit.

With the tracks still drawing awful, I switched content creators and went to some built-in, or rather some pro-tracks from N3V from some DLC I don't remember. After replacing the track, everything loaded up and I was happy until the next day when the problem reappeared. I then did more culling after I found many old spline buildings from dmdrake in the city. They're really old and while they fill up areas, again there were way too many of them. I deleted a bunch that were in the background and put in some hills to create a break in the large vast sea of city buildings and industries. This helped a lot and I was happy again for another day.

Now, the problem is worse with, and the problem now occurs in the route editor and when editing in the Session editor when paused. Yesterday, I went back to a previous version of the route, long before the merger, and the problem isn't there. The splines load up fine, although I see some I'd like to replace now, but other than that, I don't lose the tracks in Surveyor. Testing in a driving session will be a whole other matter because I have to recreate the train consists again from scratch.
I read everything and I understand it is frustrating. however I ask a stupid and simple question. Have you converted or is there any HD terrain baseboard on the map now and was not before?
 
I read everything and I understand it is frustrating. however I ask a stupid and simple question. Have you converted or is there any HD terrain baseboard on the map now and was not before?
That's a good question. There are no HD terrain baseboards anywhere on this route.
 
I read everything and I understand it is frustrating. however I ask a stupid and simple question. Have you converted or is there any HD terrain baseboard on the map now and was not before?
same thing with mine there is no HD Terrain Baseboards anywhere on my route... so this is really a Game Not Optimized properly Issue that N3V hasn't fixed since the game was released...
 
same thing with mine there is no HD Terrain Baseboards anywhere on my route... so this is really a Game Not Optimized properly Issue that N3V hasn't fixed since the game was released...
This is a data corruption issue. I found an earlier backup made before this issue occurred and restored it. The problem doesn't exist in this area, or causes the rest of the route to suffer from the problem.

Since I have backups of everything, I'm going to perform some surgery and extract the working part and insert it into the broken route and see what happens after removing the faulty section of course. I'd hate to go back to the older route because I've made some route changes that took me a very long time to implement.
 
This is a data corruption issue. I found an earlier backup made before this issue occurred and restored it. The problem doesn't exist in this area, or causes the rest of the route to suffer from the problem.

Since I have backups of everything, I'm going to perform some surgery and extract the working part and insert it into the broken route and see what happens after removing the faulty section of course. I'd hate to go back to the older route because I've made some route changes that took me a very long time to implement.
Your description of what was going on with your route is like something out of horror movie John. Sorry to heat you've had all those issues.Makes my problems look utterly insignificant in comparison. Actually since i've just confined by activities to a specific set of low triangle assets, I've had zero issues with the computer running out of puff this past week .
 
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