Stupid Railfans Close East Coast Mainline.

[wholbr]

Today (25[SUP]th[/SUP] of February 2016) marked the return of the flying Scotsman traveling under its own power to the city of York where the locomotive is to be on exhibition at the National Railway Museum. It was an occasion that many considered to be an historical day in British rail history and therefore many thousands turned out to see the “old kettle” Pull ten heritage carriages with the on-board enthusiasts paying up to £450 for their seats to its destination.

However, there always has to be those who set out to ruin any great occasion with stupid self-attracting activity and today was no exception. The flying Scotsman was brought to a halt on three occasions during the journey by so-called rail fans (no let us call them by the title they do not like “train spotters”) trespassing on the down side track of the East coast mainline. Of course there activity not only delayed and halted the historic engine but also brought to a halt all other rail traffic on one of Britain’s main transport arteries.

The British transport police along with other security personnel had to be sent out onto the railway to clear these persons which had the mainline closed for over 20 minutes and then brought forward ongoing speed restrictions for several hours following the trespassing. The situation was further exasperated at London’s King’s Cross and other stations where HST services arriving into their destinations found that they had missed their platform slots causing further delays.

Being as it was a normal working day social media and rail forums were quickly inundated with complaints from rail commuters in regard to the event being staged by Network Rail at a peak time on a full working day. Complaints have ranged from people being very late for work, others missing hospital appointments, customer meetings and conferences often posted with “great annoyance” to put it very mildly.

These train spotters must possess brains the size of pea to be walking on or even walking close to the side of that mainline which at peak times can have HST and other services running at up to 120 mph every three minutes in both directions on full working days. This “debacle” comes within a week of West Coast railways (Britain’s largest provider of heritage rail tours) being once again banned from mainline operation for safety malpractices.

In the above, one daily commuter paying thousands of pounds per year for his rail travel demanded on social media that “enough is enough of persons playing choo-choos on Britain’s essential rail transport infrastructure where it is presenting risk and costing time to Britain’s hard-pressed regular rail passengers”.

Many travelling on the railways today will second that posting
Bill

 

[nathanmallard]

On the contrary, given the significance of the occasion, I feel that commuters should have been warned and accounted for the risk of delays, with 60103 given priority above ordinary train services (only for this run, not for future ones). What's wrong with holding the HSTs and 225s back a few minutes to allow enthusiasts to get their pictures? It's been 11 years since it last ran on the mainline for goodness sake!

 

[wholbr]

On the contrary, given the significance of the occasion, I feel that commuters should have been warned and accounted for the risk of delays, with 60103 given priority above ordinary train services (only for this run, not for future ones). What's wrong with holding the HSTs and 225s back a few minutes to allow enthusiasts to get their pictures? It's been 11 years since it last ran on the mainline for goodness sake!

What's wrong with holding back HST's and other services. Well, to start with it was not just for a few minutes, the speed restrictions escalated the late running into 30-45 minutes for London bound commuters and then waiting for a platform to be available took more than 30 minutes for some services.

The passengers delayed where as I stated in my opening post commuters who pay thousands of pounds per year for their travel on the railways and with many of them being higher earners pay large sums in tax some of which also goes to the railways.

So, do we want a forward looking railway catering every day for the persons working and creating the economy that Britain so much relies on, or do we want a railway looking at the past delaying and annoying those who are providing each day the essential funding for that railway and also for the rest of Britain's economy, for goodness sake


Bill

 

[martinvk]

I'm with you there Bill, so called rail fans delaying and disrupting the activities of others is a cause for shame. Thanks to those (#$%^&) others who do respect the rules and respect the general public are restricted even more than necessary.

 

[clam1952]

Nathan, it does not give people the right to trespass on the railway line does it? that's just stupid and irresponsible behaviour. Plenty of places they could watch from without causing a safety issue. Comparable stupidity to walking down the hard shoulder of a motorway, you don't do it! These clowns are coming in for heavy criticism on the Rail forums I use, that's both from users and genuine enthusiasts alike.

 

[BLACKWATCH]

If anyone has photo's with these idiots on, they need to circulate them, then if any genuine enthusiast or member of the
public recognises any of them, report them to the law so that harsh fines can be dished out.

 

[nathanmallard]

Of course I don't condone trespassing, obviously that is illegal and the perpetrators should be punished, what I meant was enthusiasts should be given say 5-10 minutes or so before the train leaves the station to wander wherever they like to get a photograph (obviously within reason and under supervision).

 

[BLACKWATCH]

Of course I don't condone trespassing, obviously that is illegal and the perpetrators should be punished, what I meant was enthusiasts should be given say 5-10 minutes or so before the train leaves the station to wander wherever they like to get a photograph (obviously within reason and under supervision).

I don't agree, there are plenty of LEGAL lineside locations from which to obtain phot's. Even under supervision (extra cost to the railways), you can bet your bottom dollar
that any incident would be pounced on by the 'Compensation' lawyers, plus H&S would never grant it.

Personally I try to avoid stations for my pics, I use Google Earth to pick out 3 or 4 locations, then visit before the event to choose the one that gives me the view I require
without trespassing on other peoples property.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
What I do not understand is why Network Rail did not stage this event on a Saturday or even more preferably on a Sunday. Pressures on the rail system would have been far less with any delays far easier to make up, and even more people would have been able to witness the running.

It would seem that Network Rail have "really lost their way in recent times" which is a great pity as when they to over running of the network from Railtrack several years ago they did a great job of getting the system back into shape from the disaster they inherited. So, what has happened as everything they do or plan now seems to go badly wrong with ever growing criticism falling around their ears.

Today's events will do nothing to lower that criticism.
Bill

 

[wholbr]

Just had a thought as to why they did not stage the running on a weekend. Perhaps Network Rail where afraid that if railfans brought the trains to a stop carrying the football premier league supporters to their matches (Manu, Man City, Arsenal, Tottenham supporters etc), that certainly would have been be the last stupid act of railfaning those people would ever have done.

Thinking again, perhaps that would not have been such a bad thing.:hehe:

Bill

 

[napierdeltic]

I would hope that these railfans as general public persons having an interest in railways for a day and rather clueless. Id would expect and hope proper railfans are sensible and know the dangers involved and don't do such stupid things. Well here's hoping !!

What I find strange after stopping at Retford late for water was being allowed out right in front of the Leeds and Bradford trains. Was watching the screen in disbelief. I hope in future that this means railtours have priory over service trains instead of following stoppers for miles :hehe:

Cheers
Stuart

ECML Project Leader

 

[cascaderailroad]

No doubt someone over reacted, and some railfans overstepped their boundries actually trespassing on an active track, just to get an upclose shot of what exactly it looks like to get klobbered in the kisser by the Flying Scottsman

Lets examine photograpy:

You are @ 5'6" tall, so the lens would be @ 5'2" off the ground, pointing up at the blinding sky, as the main center of the loco is @ 12' off the ground, and stands @ 15' high ... nice shot Jethro, how'd you get an underexposure of the twain, and overexposure of the sky like that ?

You are looking straight headlong into the face of a moving twain, that is speeding right at you, making a focal point that comprises only just the center of the picture ... AhhhDuhrrr, smooth move Jethro, how'd you achieve that limited FOV of a long twain, that looks like it is going to schmizzen you to smitherines ?

Lets set up right on the RR Crossing, so we get all that super overly loud annoying blaring crossing bells, and screaming twain whistle, blowing out our video camera sound system ... Jethro you're doin' it wong' again !

You find the perfect spot 3/4 hour prior, @ 25' distant the tracks ... then 7 inbred twain hugging mongoloid idjiots' rush right in and trespass right on the active mainline track, proceed to stand in the foreground of your 25 person photo line shoot, blocking all of your view, with their bulbious maroon heads, then they proceed to give you the "Bird" when you yell at them to move, and you throw rocks at them. Some people are just Darwin Award candidates, with a main purpose in life is to pull some ridiculous lamebrained stunt, and get seriously kilt' !

The best photo and video shots are best taken at least 100' distant the track, up high on an embankment or bridge, several hundred feet upwind of the RR crossing, so you get a long panning shot, looking down on the train, eliminating the overly loud whistle and crossing bells, and almost all of the blinding sky from your shot.

You ask me, the twain should just slow down to 20 mph, so the trespassers get the full ambiance of getting slowly mowed down, and mauled by the handrails and cowcatcher of a speeding locomotive ... Superman !

Don't be a twain hugger ... Have you hugged a twain today ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0NXtzWyTQY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoRkno_2uZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sUoqd-21Dk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR3n-9fPoJ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1PwnHeE28A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMRlanye5Nw

 

[JCitron]

This was definitely wrong for the idiot rail fans doing what they did and for Network Rail to schedule the Flying Scottsman during the busy workweek. I sometimes question whether some people are actually qualified to do the job they are hired for in big organizations and companies such as Network Rail, MBTA, various banks, and insurance companies.

But yes there are stupid, inconsiderate people, including many rail fans. I saw this firsthand about 25 years ago. This was one afternoon when the local railroad was running a special move along with some delayed long freights. For us this type of thing rings bells and everyone comes to watch. When I got down to the trackside, there were dozens of people hanging off of the signal masts and gathered all over both mainlines (east and westbound), and completely blocking everything up. The railroad called the local police who came along eventually to disburse people so the trains could pass through without delay. Hanging on the ladders of the signal masts to get that perfect photo? Come on... How stupid!

But rail fans can and do stupid stuff in general, after all, they are experts about trains and this is one of the reasons why they're not hired. There are some interesting posts over at www.railroad.net about this. One guy for example managed to take over a small radio office and screw up dispatching for a local railroad because he impersonated a railroad worker. There are also cases of rail fans working as railroad conductors and instead of doing their work, are more interested in a nearby locomotive, which in turn caused a derailment because he forgot about setting a switch properly.

I will say though that this seems to be the case with many hobbies including storm chasing. Yes, I go out storm chasing when I get the money. I travel with a professionally run group by Silver Lining Tours www.silverliningtours.com This is one side of the chasing hobby, though more expensive, however, we're supervised and kept off the road. Then there's Billy Bob local boy and his buddies in their pick-up trucks that go screaming down the road, blow through intersections and tie up traffic because they want to watch that severe storm. In the process of doing this block the roads completely from even rescue vehicles from passing by. This has become quite an issue and some states and authorities now police the chasers and issue citations for improper parking and behavior. So yeah, we can sum it up that people stupid.

John

 

[clam1952]

Just found a link to this on RailUK Video by one of the idiots, read the comments not a popular man! https://twitter.com/jsimoncar/status/702782227722141696

 

[napierdeltic]

This was definitely wrong for the idiot rail fans doing what they did and for Network Rail to schedule the Flying Scottsman during the busy workweek. I sometimes question whether some people are actually qualified to do the job they are hired for in big organizations and companies such as Network Rail, MBTA, various banks, and insurance companies.

In this country steam trains run on a daily basis on the National Network during the week and weekends so todays run is nothing special at all. Other than the over reaction that is a certain steam engine. The ECML has a regular weekday steam train depending on time of year on this 'spare path' from Kings Cross to York and is never a problem with train enthusiasts. That's why in my pervious comment I blame the general public.

http://uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm

We had the same problem a few years ago when a new steam engine called Tornado started to run with the public going trackside. Tell a member of the public that a Black 5 was coming through would just go straight over their head with not a clue with what your talking about.

Wish me luck as Im working at the NRM this weekend but for me on a more impressive and superior locomotive - Deltic D9009. My personal view.

Cheers
Stuart

ECML Project Leader

 

[castle5]

Wonderful to see flying Scotsman back out but unfortunately owing to the events of today plus the west coast railways debacle, add to that previous trespass incidents on the uk mainline in recent years. As a uk railway employee I can only see this leading to a ban on mainline steam as the risks will out way the benefits. Out of curiosity who will be paying compensation to all these delayed commuters?

 

[amigacooke]

I commute pretty much everyday to London Victoria and it's not steam locomotives that are responsible for the poor service.

I'd suggest there just aren't enough steam charter trains to materially affect train operating companies performance figures and blaming those locomotives is a smokescreen for other more pressing failures.

 

[JCitron]

In this country steam trains run on a daily basis on the National Network during the week and weekends so todays run is nothing special at all. Other than the over reaction that is a certain steam engine. The ECML has a regular weekday steam train depending on time of year on this 'spare path' from Kings Cross to York and is never a problem with train enthusiasts. That's why in my pervious comment I blame the general public.

http://uksteam.info/tours/trs16.htm

We had the same problem a few years ago when a new steam engine called Tornado started to run with the public going trackside. Tell a member of the public that a Black 5 was coming through would just go straight over their head with not a clue with what your talking about.

Wish me luck as Im working at the NRM this weekend but for me on a more impressive and superior locomotive - Deltic D9009. My personal view.

Cheers
Stuart

ECML Project Leader

I do wish you luck for this coming weekend, Stuart. Dealing with the public at large can be "fun" at times.

That's interesting that you have so much steam still running on the mainlines like that. Over here they've pretty much disappeared except for an occasional charter, or museum such as Steamtown in Scranton, PA where they share service with a smaller less busy short line freight-only company.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
I would very much agree with amigacooke where he states in his posting At #17 of this thread that heritage rail tours are not the main reason for delays and poor service to rail users in the UK. However, I would point out that the office of the Rail and Road Regulator cited West Coast railways heritage tours causing delays on the network as one of the reasons for once again banning the company from the mainline network on 17 February.

That stated, the severe shortage of train drivers (discussed in another thread on this forum recently) coupled with the all too often news of network rail managed night hours and weekend track maintenance overrunning their time schedules certainly are a major contributing factor for cancellations and delays to train services. However, it is the repeated “big event misfortunes” which very much catch the attention of the media when reporting the railways.

It was the highly publicised overrunning Christmas track maintenance schedules in 2014 which left many thousands stranded throughout the country while trying to return from their seasonal holidays that first seemed to start the reputation of network rail crashing. The organisations incompetence in its major programme of modernisation such as the electrification the Great Western Main Line between London Paddington, Bristol and Cardiff which is now twice over its multi-billion pound original budget and running two years late is just another of a series major debacles eagerly and rightly highlighted by the media to the detriment of the taxpayer funded Network Rail.

The National Rail Museum also taxpayer funded has not escaped the attention of the media for its total £6 million funding of the flying Scotsman project. Therefore, the joint highly publicised return of the “old kettle” to York on the 25[SUP]th[/SUP] of February was supposed to be the event which raised the reputations of both the NRM and Network Rail. Instead it turned into yet another debacle involving all other trains and rail users travelling on the East coast mainline and dragging the reputations of both organisations yet further into the mud.

There are worrying signs that events such as the above are now beginning to drain the confidence and patience of regular rail users. A recent survey demonstrated that 25% of rail commuters in the south-east of England were now dissatisfied with the standards of reliability, punctuality and cleanliness of rail services with up to 15% of rail users in other regions of England reporting similar in the survey.

Many billions have been and still are being invested by the taxpayers in Britain’s rail infrastructure which has brought forward in recent years the huge rise in passenger numbers witnessed. That would all seem to be now under threat due to incompetence and mismanagement within the main train operating companies, Network Rail and events within ancillary rail organisations by example West Coast railways and the National Rail Museum. The above taxpayer funding could easily be turned off if passenger numbers start to fall due to what many see as the atrocious performance of those running the UK.’s railways.

It is therefore time for all those involved in providing service to the rail system to “wake up” and give Britain’s rail commuters the service they so rightly deserve and pay so highly for in ticket prices. The network must be made free of people wishing to play choo-choos or anything else on one of Britain’s major transport systems and for which the UK’s whole economy relies every day for its well-being.

Network rail and organisations such as the national rail Museum must realise that tax payers are quite frankly becoming “fed up to the back teeth” with the stench of incompetents and financial mismanagement permeating from these publicly funded organisations who are supposedly meant to be providing the highest quality of service to its users but forever failing lamentably.

Bill

 

[pfx]

This sort of stupidity isn't confined to mainline running. The small preserved line I help out on has had a number of incidents with trespassing however, if I'm on duty, it doesn't last very long as I'm not hugely tolerant of such things. Best (by best, I mean most idiotic bit of trespass) so far was during a gala day. I had to walk part of the line and came across some thick skulled gricer wandering down the line towards me. I probably lost my temper but his response? "Can I set up my tripod and take photos as the loco goes by?" I frog marched him back to the station instead and he got no photos.