Signaling - Impact on AI Operations?

[boleyd]

My questions are for a CSX USA system using TS2012:

I just downloaded several Safetran signal elements that were new on the DLS. Are these Functionally different than the plain vanilla searchlight signals such as USA 02, USA 04, etc.?

I have read the Ocatch documentation of tracks & signaling. Is this the final word on how Trainz signals work?

For a CSX system what are the recommended signals?

There are some other questions that I have but I am not comfortable asking until I better understand some of the basics. One that I will need to understand more about is Interlocking.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

you should be more specific on what you downloaded and what your question is. i did just put the JR smartsignals on the DLS so its possible you are referring to those, in that case, i can help you out.

 

[boleyd]

Yes, those are the signals I downloaded.

Are these functionally different than the USA series - 02, 04, etc.? Is there an advantage to replacing my USA signals with these? I am focused on CSX as an example railroad.

I looked up "interlocking" and that appeared to be automatic operation with messages passed between relevant signals. To my non-railroading background this looks like the normal Trainz operation. But, as usual, it is probably how you interpret the terminology.

 

[sniper297]

Railroad signals are a science all by themselves, with a long history of different methods starting with the guy who hoisted a leather ball stuffed with straw to the top of a pole to indicate line clear, and lowered the ball for a set period of time after a train passed (the origin of the term "highball" for full speed ahead). Interlocking signals are signals that are linked across multiple switches so they will only show a clear aspect if all the switches are set correctly, if any one switch is in the wrong position the signal remains red. Trainz signals by default don't have links like MSTS and railworks (railworks interlockings work great, too bad the AI doesn't work at all), but if these new signals can be linked the procedure should be similar - link 0 next to the signal, link 1 on the exit route on the other side of however many switches are involved, any one switch set the wrong way will interrupt the trace and cause the signal to go red.

Some basics of a simple mechanical interlocking;

Three rods connected to levers, the blue and red rods are connected to their respective switches in the bottom track diagram. Top black "master" is contacting the green line signal control, switches are both set for the green line, no signal control voltage on the purple line means those signals set to the default red aspect. Neither switch can be moved until the master interlock rod is lifted.

Master interlock rod up, now either switch can be thrown for the curve - contact has been broken with the signal control, so now all signals are red for both lines.

Red switch thrown curved - but the master interlock rod is blocked from dropping down regardless of whether it's moved to the left or right, in this position the red control rod blocks it from dropping down, slid over to the right the blue control rod blocks it.

Both switches thrown curved, master interlock over to the right, can now drop down to make contact with the purple line signal control. Now both switches are set for the purple line, purple line signals clear if the block is not occupied, green line signals red due to no control signal.

You could spend years studying the concept of interlockings, but the general idea is to allow train movement through a junction only when all the conditions are correct for that movement.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Are these functionally different than the USA series - 02, 04, etc.? Is there an advantage to replacing my USA signals with these? I am focused on CSX as an example railroad.

they are functionally different, but designed to be used in a similar manner to those we already knew from the old days of trainz.
in this set, 04s are absolute line signals.
05s are permissive intermediate signals.
06s are absolute signals for path divergence at junctions.
06Ds are intermediates to be used ahead of the 06 types.
08s are 3 head absolute interlocking style signals, typically used where multiple tracks converge or there are many paths from one track to another track (or tracks) to convey routing or speed information.
both 06 and 08 types have the ability to signal through multiple junctions/turnouts without the use of invisible signals in between.

these are enhanced with the smartsignal scripts that allow multi-directional operations over a single track with not a 100% elimination of, but a very greatly reduced possibility for a "cornfield meet". i say not 100% because this is after all trainz AI here. they can figure out how to mess up even simple path commands.

i noticed you have TS12 registered. if you look in that on the Mojave route that we produced, it is signalled like the prototype, and is the only trainz route i know of that is fully operational as such. the way the signals are used on that route are exactly how these are to be used, and in fact is where a lot of the development for them was done.

 

[JCitron]

Justin,

Your signals work great. After I installed TS12, I went through my own route and replaced the older searchlight signals with your new ones. It took some getting used to at first, but your brief tutorial you posted awhile back helped explain their use.

Thanks again for your great work.

John

 

[boleyd]

Also have been busy replacing. Those mechanical rod gizmos look deadly to the rail patrons and should be classified as a population control strategy.

 

[sniper297]

Maybe they were a population control strategy, US population was only 140 million when I was born, where did all the rest of these people come from?! :hehe:

Actually that was the way it was done before electronics, steel rods and bellcranks and big hairy iron levers that took two men and a boy to move. Failsafe tho, lever 1 in the forward position locks lever A and B so neither one can be moved, pull lever 1 back and all the signals on the controlled lines go red - or in the days of semaphores drop to the stop indication. Pull lever A OR lever B back and leave the other forward, lever 1 is locked back and can't be returned to the forward position - both switch levers have to be either forward or back to allow lever 1 to return forward and activate the appropriate signal control. For different routing you might also have a lever 2 and lever 3, lever 2 only moves to the contact position when A is forward and B is back, lever 3 will only move when A is back and B is forward, with the corresponding signal indications for each different route set by the control levers. Early electronics failed more often than the mechanicals did, but both were designed failsafe so a broken linkage or burned out solenoid caused all signals to indicate stop. Obviously the whole smash works a lot better in the post - transistor era, no more vacuum tubes to burn out, no more arcing sparking barking contactor relays to set everything on fire.