Should We Electrify Freight RR?

Hi All: I Personnly think that the Milwaukee Road, Pennslyvania, etc, were happy with there Catenary set up..And again I truly believe that the oil companies slowly pushing things out..Back door deals where made..They didn't give a hoot about Global Warming at all..You kinow through out our history there's always been things that were plentiful(or so they thought) Things would never run out..Also big Corporate leaders helped in there way to sqelch things down, because they to were promised certain things if they would do such and such..


Bob Cass:) :)
 
Hi SuperFudd: I know you are right, but it was a good start to help rectify the problem. I can just imagine the RR's to be non-pullutors by now, and it is a proven fact that adhesion is better..Freight haulage is a lot better per ton mile..



Bob Cass:) :)
 
SuperFudd said:
Bob,

Where did the electricity come from? Old fasioned dirty coal fired plants?

THINK for yourself.
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There are some considerable energy efficiency savings from using electric traction in any case. The CO2 savings will also be considerable (unless you compare the very best of modern Diesel technology with the very worst of coal fired power plants).

Problem 1 is over rated.
Problem 2 is not a problem.
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Not yet seen any credible evidence to support these assertions. I've seen plenty that refutes them...

Paul
 
How dirty...compared to what?

:cool: There is no comparison of the output of fossil fuels power generation back in those days with today's technology.

Cities like Cleveland & Pittsburgh were covered in soot from coal fired steel production plants, no global changes recorded because of it...

Sure, it's better today, but the costs of operation sent the American steel industry offshore.

If you compare the morning sky around a fossil fuel generator to any large population city(Like Georgia Power Plant Bowen vs Atlanta, GA), you'll quickly notice that air pollution from the highways makes the generator look like a match in a hailstorm.

We get the picture about emissions, just wait until the switch is ready to be thrown before you turn off the cheap, affordable power-bill chosen for the 21st Century.

We're decades away from that day...:p
 
backyard said:
We're decades away from that day...:p
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You sure about that, because you are gambling with the lives of your kids and grandkids :eek:

While I disagree with the global warming scaremongering, I do think, correction, know that we need to stop over polluting this little rock of ours.

Cheers David
 
Automatic & for the people...

:cool: I think this planet does a pretty good job of cleansing itself...as designed.

However, conservation, innovation, technology, I'm open to change, just as long as the cost is uniform & doesn't knock us into a two class society, remember I wish to ride a maglev also...

The 19-20th Century Industrial Revolution didn't melt the polar ice caps, kill millions, or endanger the lives & well of being for us...

And China has reached the Industrial Age...they burn more coal than we do...and a lot of it is ours!
 
backyard said:
:cool: I think this planet does a pretty good job of cleansing itself...as designed.
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Left to its own devices it could repair itself, but the human race is chopping down its repair devices quicker than it can grow them, also there are now how many millions of square miles of fertile soil overgrown with concrete and bitumen ??
However, conservation, innovation, technology, I'm open to change, just as long as the cost is uniform & doesn't knock us into a two class society, remember I wish to ride a maglev also...
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So the rest of the world can choke to death as long as you can get to ride a maglev :eek: :eek:
The 19-20th Century Industrial Revolution didn't melt the polar ice caps, kill millions, or endanger the lives & well of being for us...
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Yes it did and is still doing so.

And China has reached the Industrial Age...they burn more coal than we do...and a lot of it is ours!
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So because the Chinese are now polluting more than the USofA its all their fault, please wake up and smell the roses, while they can still grow.

Cheers David
 
The planet is definitely not suffering because of our poor housekeeping; it will recover whatever we do. The problem is that it will be us and all other life that will suffer. Read your history books and learn. This planet will be the 3rd rock from the sun for many thousands of years yet. It's just that it may be completely devoid of life. If we don't wake up and take responsibility for cleaning the floors and washing the dishes it will be us that gets snuffed or at the very least seriously disadvantaged. Don't think for a minute that you can separate yourself from the universe; you're part of it whether you like it or not and whether you know it or not. Everything you do affects everything else; everything I do affects everything else.



Cheers

Nix
 
Agreed Nix, the planet itself does note even know we are here, let alone look after us, but as all we are really concerned with is the human part of the equation, the world (for us) ends when the human race finally kills itself with its own effluent ( a fancy way of saying sh.. )

The planet will only end when the Sun grows into a red giant as part of its own life cycle and swallows it up.

I think we need to get back on topic :hehe: :hehe:

Cheers David
 
:cool: 5:07 AM 10/31/2009
Thanks for your rebuttal Pommie, I welcome debate...nothing personal...follow closely...

I must confess I faithfully believe that Earth has a definite date in destiny that shall be fulfilled...one way or another it shall be burned with fire & the elements shall melt with fervent heat....but there's no sense in rushing things, no.

There has always been a threat to the Earth because of the existence of humanity, always will be. And that goes both ways...

The point I was waffling is that though I don't agree with using methods like (US-America) "Cap & Trade," my government's attempt to culturalize so-called "global-warming," I so do welcome the universal challenge to "green-up!"

Remembering it was the US-American industrial revolution that gave us the tools to do things like move around & even carry stuff, grow food, defend nations, educate & give people Saving Faith, give people the oportunity to live in decadence, spending money to satisfy their selfish existence while the folks getting the money to produce "things" that make the decadent crow, not only survive but make a better life for their children, educating them in fine schools to get their degree(read-"ticket") & attend the worship of their choice, giving their god(God) the glory...it always looks better on paper...

I'm 51 & I just hope to see the day when they maglev my country.

By that time it won't be an economic catastrophe because ultimately the give will be saved by let-go of old ways, inefficient technology, wasteful living because some educated person will see a loophole where money could be saved.

Maglev technology uses energy in a pure form, however the method of production creates pollution including large volumes of "bad-dirt" in it's use as well as it's production.

You can count on the fact that if I ever step on a Maglev, coal won't be in the price of the ticket!

So you see the fallacy of fear? :)

Heck! What if the polar caps melt...will we find no way to cope?;)

Tomorrow holds the answers. Just don't pull the plug or turn the lights out, or make the way difficult for education.:D

China has a culture four-thousand years old...do you think they got that way being dumb? Eat Chinese lately?:p

Then why would China import coal & oil if they felt it was a threat to their existence...?

China's demand for oil & coal could virtually shut out the rest of the world...they are one-third the global population. They intend to develop their nation to the best of it's abilities & I read they are a resourceful bunch.:sleep:

India, is another third of the global population...now there is an up & coming group!! Just call "Customer Service" & they
will try to help as best they can, but their country needs that money, so we & the Chinese will help them to improve as best we can!:wave:

No problem, all-of-a-sudden we discover 25-times the size of reserves we originally thought...the Earth gave forth again!

I grew up with the tree hugger & how that saved the giant redwoods & the Great Northwest Forests but also killed the livelihoods of working people, learned to climb trees, trim trees, remove large & dead trees & I noticed that the forested rights of way we trimmed that otherwise would be left dormant to suffer actually responded to trimming the invading utility structure.

They got sun, bloomed, reforested from the tree-line inward to the woods with new growth...as the Bible reads "and they tended the garden"...in the not so virgin forest & even front yard, trees that the owners protected from trimming also eventually died from their owners neglect(trees are part of the garden too).

A properly tended tree farm, like those in North Florida & South Georgia yield a nice crop of 10"-12" pine every 25 years. That is a long time, however they are taking in carbon dioxide, producing oxygen, Working for You!

Wasteful tree harvesting on the other hand, slowed the opportunity to get that yield. So a global-attention-span created by so-called "Global Warming" is getting the words Conservation, Recycling, etc. spread around...the globe.

When more folks learn that those words practiced make them feel better about themselves, give a better existance, an awareness of a global-community, we'll be better for it.:D

You can so thank Nobel Prize winner, Mr. Albert Gore, Jr. for that...he's from Carthage, Tennessee, USA, my location!:hehe: His formal education, political education+experience, global-travel, helped bring us to the point of "going-green."

But my on-topic assertion was that we needed to update the US-American railroad infrastructure first...:o
 
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backyard said:
:cool: 5:07 AM 10/31/2009
Thanks for your rebuttal Pommie, I welcome debate...nothing personal...follow closely...
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But you are going nowhere :eek:
Remembering it was the US-American industrial revolution that gave us the tools to do things like move around & even carry stuff
Click to expand...
If I remember my history correctly, unless its been rewritten in the last 50 years or so, the steam locomotive, and therefore 'modern' railways were invented in England, and the motor car in Europe while the USofA was busy killing off millions of buffalo :p
You can so thank Nobel Prize winner, Mr. Albert Gore, Jr. for that...he's from Carthage, Tennessee, USA, my location!:hehe: His formal education, political education+experience, global-travel, helped bring us to the point of "going-green."
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Al Gore, isn't he the guy that caused a heap of pollution by flying around the world in his own jumbo Jet and staying in five star hotels that consume a lot of power keeping the rooms at a comfortable level, all the while lecturing the rest of us about pollution (and I might add, being paid a lot of money for doing it), isn't that being a bit hypocritical, when he could of used one of the world wide communication networks and stayed home :confused:

Cheers David

Edit, I think that after your reply we had better drop this and let the thread get back on topic :D although it has been quite enjoyable :hehe: :hehe:
 
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pommie said:
But you are going nowhere :eek:

If I remember my history correctly, unless its been rewritten in the last 50 years or so, the steam locomotive, and therefore 'modern' railways were invented in England, and the motor car in Europe while the USofA was busy killing off millions of buffalo :p

Al Gore, isn't he the guy that caused a heap of pollution by flying around the world in his own jumbo Jet and staying in five star hotels that consume a lot of power keeping the rooms at a comfortable level, all the while lecturing the rest of us about pollution (and I might add, being paid a lot of money for doing it), isn't that being a bit hypocritical, when he could of used one of the world wide communication networks and stayed home :confused:

Cheers David

Edit, I think that after your reply we had better drop this and let the thread get back on topic :D although it has been quite enjoyable :hehe: :hehe:
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He could be the cause of that and more or better yet,there has got to be a good reason for all of this and your right the steam locomotive was created in England!:cool:
 
But look at china,they have soot and pollution everywhere you look even the railroads,powerplants and other industrial areas and they still use steam engines in those areas and it is taking them a long time to convert to diesel!:o
 
UP5521 said:
But look at china,they have soot and pollution everywhere you look even the railroads,powerplants and other industrial areas and they still use steam engines in those areas and it is taking them a long time to convert to diesel!:o
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I really think that China preserves their Engines more than The US and maybe other countries do. The US once it hits a New year we decide that "this Engine or this Car is Obsolete and we need to scrap it" When china makes their engines last long who knows they might modify their steam loco to the point it runs by battery or any kind of electric power. I really do not think very much that we should convert freight to Electricity, yeah some countries done it already but the ways we transport freight and the places it goes through will complicate loading and unloading and cause a few issues like Electric passenger trains have open areas and the ground is simply modified to support it while on freight it goes through all these close areas like riverlines, Small Valleys and suck which would cause extreme modifying and alot of Drama because most places on freight routes are unstable to handle the train itself rather than more construction
 
UP5521 said:
But look at china,they have soot and pollution everywhere you look even the railroads,powerplants and other industrial areas and they still use steam engines in those areas and it is taking them a long time to convert to diesel!:o
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The Chinese are also building more wind turbines than anyone else (possibly more than everyone else put together), and investing in a huge High-Speed rail network and a large number of urban metro systems. They've recognised the threat of climate change, but they are prioritising the measures that also increase their energy security and improve their infrastructure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China

Apparently there's almost no steam left in China, and they have a lot more under the wires than the USA (or Australia for that matter :o ).

Paul
 
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