Sad, but almost any scenery has glitches or errors...

[Ruskie]

I recently bought TRS2009... Had 2004 and wanted to see new sceneries, new features... I must admit that I am quite disappointed by this version, it seems a fresh Vista compared to a mature XP installation...
I see almost no new scenarios designed specifically for TRS2009... There is a bunch of material "converted" (or deemed "compatible", don't know) from TRS2006, and some that I already had in TRS2004...
However, in my installation none (or close) runs correctly. All the scripted actions are messed up, sometimes the semaphores stay red when they should be green, in a case the "A" key wouldn't work, or rather messages that tell you what you've got to do don't show leaving you clueless... Even those that do work (Banks heath, for example) are in general "less working" than the original... What a pity!!!
The most common error ever in so many of the scenarios: "ER_NativeCallError line -1 signal.gs"...
Is it just me, am I missing a magic trick or is it really so dark as I see it? If not, is there something to do to make all (or at least 50%) the scenarios working?

Thanks
Marco

 

[peteredlin]

hi, i all so bought tranz 2009.During instalation there where no errors ecountered but when i tryed to play a driver session its full of scripting exceptions and there are many incompleet sessions where there is no text which tells you what to do.Its a mesh i cant believe somebody has the guts to sell this game in the state it is in.

I tryed to contact auran and easycomputing but the do not respond yet.And on this forrum there is no body realy that tells you what to do or that other poeple encounter the same problems.

I even googled my problems whit tranz 2009 but i find nothing.

Tommorow i am going to call auran and hear what the have got to say.

I am very dissapointed.

 

[johnwhelan]

Basically Auran builds the game engine content creators provide the content. The good part is you get 100,000 items floating around the DLS for free. The bad part is it takes time to create new error free content, a good layout can take a couple of years so don't expect all new TS2009 content out of the box.

First thing make sure you are at SP2.

After that let's take one layout at a time and see if we can sort it out for you.

Thanks John

 

[geoffwilliams]

The problem is that as good and as stable as TS2009 is, as far as content is concerned, it is in limbo. Not to take anything away from the excellent efforts of the content creators, Native mode is pie in the sky at present. And even the built in content does not work properly in compatibility mode, let alone the thousands of items on the DLS, because of the strange decisions on alpha blending.

What I can't believe, like many others here, is that now we have a new version announced, which, apart from the inclusion of SpeedTree assets to address some of the issues with TS2009, is nothing more than a cosmetic update and a third service pack we are being forced to pay for (if we want it of course)

My advice would be to stick with TRS2004. No other version has been properly completed to stability since this. Most of the current content will work with it, and if you really are into messing with config files to get things working, the Carlisle to Skipton route works a treat.
Geoff

 

[Ruskie]

Basically Auran builds the game engine content creators provide the content. The good part is you get 100,000 items floating around the DLS for free. The bad part is it takes time to create new error free content, a good layout can take a couple of years so don't expect all new TS2009 content out of the box.

First thing make sure you are at SP2.

After that let's take one layout at a time and see if we can sort it out for you.

Thanks John

Hello John,
Thanks for answering, first of all.
Being on the computing industry myself, I understand very well what you are talking about. And I also can agree that the simulation engine, the core, that Auran itself does build, is more or less flawless (the only funny thing being, since years, snowing and raining in tunnels).
When Auran advertises the product, however, it advertises it being sold with tons of material, scenarios and so on, and so many of them are in fact directly shipped with the product. When I complain I'm not talking only about the ones you can download from the download station, but also about the ones you find right from the start, and I'm not complaining about the fact they arent new, not at all: I'm complaining about the fact most of them do not work and it is not really said in the advertisements...
Now I wouldn't mind if some, even a considerable percentage of -say- 25% of the material would not work... But so far 99% doesn't! The only scenario that did work for me was Banks Heat's passenger service, a scenario I already played on TRS2004, and even that, with a minor experience in TRS2009 'cause there is no speech while in TRS2004 there was. I've only tested around 30 scenarios, but I sadly suspect the percentage won't change by much.
Since Auran sells the product advertising it with them, and on the other side does not warn about the fact that many doesn't work, I think Auran itself has responsibility in it (by the way you can see I'm not asking money back, threatening legal actions or similar, I'm just expressing my disappointment, and if I do is because I value Auran a lot).
I have read that most of the problems derive from the fact Auran has changed the scripting language and while I can understand it, I find extremely regrettable not having maintained full compatibility with the old versions; I think that having seen that with the new version of the product all those scenarios did not work anymore, Auran should have stopped advertising it and instead should have stated very clearly that so many of them would not work correctly under the new version... And now I am wondering what about Trainz 2010... How will it run??? More than speed-tree (tm) I would focus on adapting the scripting language to make old scenarios working correctly...
I know TRS2009 is probably as good as the eldest when you just want to build your own railway model, but to play as a driver, well honestly it is not worth half of the oldest version.

As for fixing scenarios, honestly I don't think you can help me (us) very much 'cause from what I read around it is not really a problem of my setup... Anyway, I played Razorbackrailways scenarios, posted on their forum and they plain and simply told me that their scenarios still don't work with TRS2009 and they probably won't for a long time, suggesting me to buy TRS2004 instead. If the developers tell me that, I doubt you can help...
However, here are some questions:

- Maybe you could help me telling me why almost any scenarios does give the scripting error "ER_NativeCallError line -1 signal.gs"... It seems to be the root of all evil...

- How do I tell if I am at SP2??? I have only read about SP1 on the forum, and I have been "automatically patched" only once when I installed Trainz. I can see the build is 40040. Is that SP2? If not, where can I download it?

- As for scenarios, let's try one at a time. I have TRS2009 out-of-the-box plus a couple of scenarios added via download station (and some of them shows missing dependencies, meaning the concept of DS is probably far from perfect, but let it go since it is not Auran fault)... Scenario set Iberia Interior: Main line (intro) works just fine, but then:

- Command Post: the shunt loco randomly derails (i.e.: the system issue "derail detected", 'cause the loco actually stays on track) even if you go at 4kph and the switch are all set correctly. The scenario ends after the derail announcment.

- Night Line: you have to wait a diesel train then take charge of its wagons and set off for somewhere... but there are numerous errors there too... One time one of the automated freight operating at the station derails on its own, by the way obstructing all but 2 tracks; one other time the plot signs that tells you what to do don't come out; you have to go to a track and wait a signal to go to couple with the wagons... Once when I played the plot dialog came out, the other time it didnt'...
Again, the scenario does not ask you anything about control model at first: you start dcc mode; once I played for some minutes, then the signal to go coupling came out and immediately before that I could choose between DCC or Cabin mode; the other time nothing happened (I did not go on to coupling knowing there was already something wrong)...

Can you spot my fault there, or tell me how to fix the error in the program if any?

Thank you so much
Regards
Marco

 

[Ruskie]

The problem is that as good and as stable as TS2009 is, as far as content is concerned, it is in limbo. Not to take anything away from the excellent efforts of the content creators, Native mode is pie in the sky at present. And even the built in content does not work properly in compatibility mode, let alone the thousands of items on the DLS, because of the strange decisions on alpha blending.

What I can't believe, like many others here, is that now we have a new version announced, which, apart from the inclusion of SpeedTree assets to address some of the issues with TS2009, is nothing more than a cosmetic update and a third service pack we are being forced to pay for (if we want it of course)

My advice would be to stick with TRS2004. No other version has been properly completed to stability since this. Most of the current content will work with it, and if you really are into messing with config files to get things working, the Carlisle to Skipton route works a treat.
Geoff

Yeah Geoff, but you will understand that having just payed 40 bucks for this new version, discovering it is almost junk TO ME (I capitalize 'cause I also think it is stable and a great addition and all, but it is of no use to me if I can't use to to play as advertised) kinda... ... makes me upset, to stay in urban terms...

 

[johnwhelan]

Hello John,
Thanks for answering, first of all.
Being on the computing industry myself, I understand very well what you are talking about. And I also can agree that the simulation engine, the core, that Auran itself does build, is more or less flawless (the only funny thing being, since years, snowing and raining in tunnels).
When Auran advertises the product, however, it advertises it being sold with tons of material, scenarios and so on, and so many of them are in fact directly shipped with the product. When I complain I'm not talking only about the ones you can download from the download station, but also about the ones you find right from the start, and I'm not complaining about the fact they arent new, not at all: I'm complaining about the fact most of them do not work and it is not really said in the advertisements...

On that I think we agree I'm not certain of the wording they used but "it advertises it being sold with tons of material, scenarios and so on, and so many of them are in fact directly shipped with the product." I think the advertising implies that the content in the box works with the product which is not the case.

Check to see you are at build 40040, that cleared a lot of problems. It should auto update these days but double check anyway.

Cheerio John

 

[johnwhelan]

The problem is that as good and as stable as TS2009 is, as far as content is concerned, it is in limbo. Not to take anything away from the excellent efforts of the content creators, Native mode is pie in the sky at present. And even the built in content does not work properly in compatibility mode, let alone the thousands of items on the DLS, because of the strange decisions on alpha blending.

What I can't believe, like many others here, is that now we have a new version announced, which, apart from the inclusion of SpeedTree assets to address some of the issues with TS2009, is nothing more than a cosmetic update and a third service pack we are being forced to pay for (if we want it of course)

My advice would be to stick with TRS2004. No other version has been properly completed to stability since this. Most of the current content will work with it, and if you really are into messing with config files to get things working, the Carlisle to Skipton route works a treat.
Geoff

Ten years ago computers were a little different. CPUs were single core, GPUs were a lot less capable. Alpha blending is done on the cpu. Modern GPUs can do things like DXT texture compression and have 200-300 processors running in parallel so it makes more sense to put the work down onto the GPU. Hence the move away from alpha blending. TS2009 will make use of multiple cores on dual and quad core cpus. TRS2004 won't.

TRS2004 is stable as long as you don't add any content that uses scripts. If you do because the scripts aren't protected from each other then the interact and the game crashes. I have content that runs fine by itself but will crash when certain other assets are loaded at the same time. There are some visual oddities with normal mapping in this version as well.

Content, well TRS2004 supported normal mapping etc. so often for scenery objects there is no need to label content anything higher. Having said that recent assets with 6 mb texture files are designed to run in TS2009 with texture compression, yes they will run in TRS2004 but you'll need to spend more money on the hardware to get the same frame rates.

Oh technically TS2009 has a couple of other tricks available but it takes time for the content creators to learn how to use them to best effect.

Cheerio John

 

[Ruskie]

On that I think we agree I'm not certain of the wording they used but "it advertises it being sold with tons of material, scenarios and so on, and so many of them are in fact directly shipped with the product." I think the advertising implies that the content in the box works with the product which is not the case.

Check to see you are at build 40040, that cleared a lot of problems. It should auto update these days but double check anyway.

Cheerio John

That's it John... also because there would not be any reason to put in a game additional content... that does not work with the game. Assuming the good faith, I really can't understand the reason of that. As for myself, I had been inducted to the purchase mostly because of the whole lot of new content and it was really a put down to discover that I can only run bank heats...

Yes, I am already at build 40040, all the tests I did were made at that build, but the problem persists, to the point I don't understand how anybody can run a driving session on TRS2009...

 

[geoffwilliams]

quote=johnwhelan;501364]Ten years ago computers were a little different. CPUs were single core, GPUs were a lot less capable. Alpha blending is done on the cpu. Modern GPUs can do things like DXT texture compression and have 200-300 processors running in parallel so it makes more sense to put the work down onto the GPU. Hence the move away from alpha blending. TS2009 will make use of multiple cores on dual and quad core cpus. TRS2004 won't.



TRS2004 is stable as long as you don't add any content that uses scripts. If you do because the scripts aren't protected from each other then the interact and the game crashes. I have content that runs fine by itself but will crash when certain other assets are loaded at the same time. There are some visual oddities with normal mapping in this version as well.

Content, well TRS2004 supported normal mapping etc. so often for scenery objects there is no need to label content anything higher. Having said that recent assets with 6 mb texture files are designed to run in TS2009 with texture compression, yes they will run in TRS2004 but you'll need to spend more money on the hardware to get the same frame rates.

Oh technically TS2009 has a couple of other tricks available but it takes time for the content creators to learn how to use them to best effect.

Cheerio John[/quote]
Hi John
I'll bow to your better knowledge here regarding computer specs, but my point is that at present there is very little content to take advantage of this, and so, IMHO, TS2009 was released far too early with not enough support for older content.

Again, I guess you will know far more about scripts than I do, but I do have the Skipton Carlisle route and most of the locomotives in TC3 working in TRS2004. And I get better frame rates. I can run this content in TRS2004 on an old laptop which gives up and dies if I try to run TC3. Yes, I have had one or two crashes to desktop but certainly no more than with TC3 or TRS2009.

Anyway, roll on TS2010, maybe native mode will take off then, I hope so.
Geoff

 

[johnwhelan]

Again, I guess you will know far more about scripts than I do, but I do have the Skipton Carlisle route and most of the locomotives in TC3 working in TRS2004. And I get better frame rates. I can run this content in TRS2004 on an old laptop which gives up and dies if I try to run TC3. Yes, I have had one or two crashes to desktop but certainly no more than with TC3 or TRS2009.

Anyway, roll on TS2010, maybe native mode will take off then, I hope so.
Geoff

To do this you basically have stripped out TC3 features and probably disabled scripts. Have you tried running the stripped down content under TC3 and looked at the frame rates? Depending on the lap top you should get even better frame rates. I've often wondered about the overhead we add adding features.

Thanks John

 

[geoffwilliams]

To do this you basically have stripped out TC3 features and probably disabled scripts. Have you tried running the stripped down content under TC3 and looked at the frame rates? Depending on the lap top you should get even better frame rates. I've often wondered about the overhead we add adding features.

Thanks John

Hi John
For one reason or another I never got on with TC3, I experienced more crashes than with any other Trainz Sim. One of the first things I did was change all the track to a low poly version. Framerates improved, but you are right, some of the industries did not work so I guess I broke some of the scripts. Have not tried any of the locomotives or rolling stock back into TC3, I am no config file expert and afraid re-comitting the same KUID's may break something.

As an aside, I also found that I could not have two or more versions of TC3 on the same computer. At least I could until I used Content Manager and it would more often than not access the wrong database. From posts on the forums I learned that CMP was always related to the last version of Trainz run. But i found to my peril that this was not the case. I usually have two or more versions for testing and playing about with, and I have done this with TRS2004, TRS2006 and TRS2009 all without problem. I simply copy the whole folder system rather than install (Makes things simple because I run Linux a lot of the time, and apart from the disappearing sound Trainz runs better on Linux) But TC3 breaks this, it also will not let me download from the DLS to TS2009, only to CMP. (If you know a fix to this I would very grateful)

Most of the TC3 content runs OK in TS2009 with only minor adjustments, but again frame rates are terrible. Again I changed the track to a low poly one, which improved things a little, I'm now hoping that with the new add-on I can get it to run acceptably in native mode.
Geoff