Route Layer Overwrite In Session Layer

[AdvancedApproach]

On my route, the Manningham Subdivision I go to create a brand new session. Not once did I make any changes to my route or switch over to that layer. Everything is done in the session layer. Yet it asks me to overwrite the route upon saving my work. On all my other routes, this isn't the case. It just asks me to save the session unless changes are done to the route layer. I don't know what could be causing this but I find it irritating. Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

[AdvancedApproach]

https://imgur.com/eK2q7ue

https://imgur.com/I6NlvpU

 

[pware]

You did not state what change(s) you made.

Some things, the world origin (in the Environmental Tools) for example, are stored in the route not the session even if you are only working in a session layer. Some other "session" features are stored in both the route and the session (for example: the default direction of an added switch is stored in the route while the session will store its set direction for that session).

 

[AdvancedApproach]

You did not state what change(s) you made.

Some things, the world origin (in the Environmental Tools) for example, are stored in the route not the session even if you are only working in a session layer. Some other "session" features are stored in both the route and the session (for example: the default direction of an added switch is stored in the route while the session will store its set direction for that session).

The only changes I made were on the route layers. Those pesky invisible trains on the ATLS crossings had to be discarded. I specifically clicked on edit route to do that. Then I realized my session still had them. So I edited the session to get rid of them. After that I saved changes to the route and session. That I understand the route and session must be overwritten. However even after just adding a single locomotive upon creating a new session and nothing else it still asked me to overwrite the route and session. That was for the Manningham Subdivision. On the Fort Conway Subdivision I showed how I added a single locomotive and attempted to exit surveyor and it asked me to only save the session. Why is that not the case for my Manningham Subdivision route? This has been an issue but I waited on saying something in hopes that the problem would correct itself but no so.

 

[pware]

Sounds like classic confusion between what is in the route and what is in the session. Your original post stated that

Not once did I make any changes to my route or switch over to that layer

indicating that your changes were in a session layer or session layers and not in the route. Then your post above states

The only changes I made were on the route layers. Those pesky invisible trains on the ATLS crossings had to be discarded.

I do not use ATLS crossings but it is possible that some of their data is stored in the route and some in the session.

Trying to break this down from your description and to clarify what I think is going on ...

Those pesky invisible trains on the ATLS crossings had to be discarded. I specifically clicked on edit route to do that.

So you loaded the route only into Surveyor and deleted the invisible trains in the ATLS crossing. I would then have saved the route only and selected (if it was not already selected) do not save session. Loading a route only into Surveyor will automatically create a new default session which is needed to store all those variables, such as industry and consists loads/products, environmental settings, etc, that are stored in the session. These will initially be set to their default values. If you have not changed these setting or added anything to a session layer then you can safely ignore the request to overwrite or save the session.

Then I realized my session still had them. So I edited the session to get rid of them.

From this I suspect that you edited and saved the default session that is created whenever a route is loaded into Surveyor without also loading a session. Check to see if the route now has any sessions named "Default" (which may be followed by date/time data) when you select the route and then select View Sessions. If so then that is where your edited default session has been stored but your original session, the one you did not load into Surveyor, is still there and probably still contains the invisible ATLS trains.

Tip: Always give the Session a name when you save it and, unless you know that you will not be editing any session data, always load both the route and session (identified by its name) when editing. If you do not load the session then do not save a session unless you are creating a completely new independent session. This has always worked for me.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

From this I suspect that you edited and saved the default session that is created whenever a route is loaded into Surveyor without also loading a session. Check to see if the route now has any sessions named "Default" (which may be followed by date/time data) when you select the route and then select View Sessions. If so then that is where your edited default session has been stored but your original session, the one you did not load into Surveyor, is still there and probably still contains the invisible ATLS trains.

There are no "default" sessions on the Manningham Subdivision. I just checked not too long ago.

Tip: Always give the Session a name when you save it and, unless you know that you will not be editing any session data, always load both the route and session (identified by its name) when editing. If you do not load the session then do not save a session unless you are creating a completely new independent session. This has always worked for me.

I always give my sessions a name. That's the first thing I do before anything else. That's to ensure that something like this is avoided but clearly I must've failed along the way so back to the drawing board.

 

[pware]

but clearly I must've failed along the way

Welcome to the club!

 

[AdvancedApproach]

The route still insists that I overwrite the route and session. Even after performing all the checks and balances. Yes I even used create new session option but still no luck. All of the issues that I had were fixed except for this one. Don't have any other problems except on this route.

 

[pware]

Don't have any other problems except on this route.

So there must be something unique to that one particular route/session not present in the others. Are you editing something in that route but not in the others (e.g. the ATLS crossings)?

 

[AdvancedApproach]

So there must be something unique to that one particular route/session not present in the others. Are you editing something in that route but not in the others (e.g. the ATLS crossings)?

Not editing a thing. I've already completed that task. I even compacted the route and deleted all of its missing assets to no avail. Something is definitely up. I already reported this and am waiting a response.

 

[stagecoach]

How did you delete the invisible trains and have ATLS still work?

 

[AdvancedApproach]

How did you delete the invisible trains and have ATLS still work?

The ATLS Crossings never fully reset. So when a train activates a trigger the invisible train shows up and then disappears upon deactivation.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

This is really starting to piss me off. Of all the routes this one won't allow me to save anything without overwriting my route.

 

[stagecoach]

The ATLS Crossings never fully reset. So when a train activates a trigger the invisible train shows up and then disappears upon deactivation.

If they don't reset then you have them set up wrong or you have duplicate names on some of the required assets. That is correct for the invisible train, it is on the slave and acts as an on/off switch. ATLS slave will not operate without it. How you discarded the invisible train could be why it needs to save the route.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

If they don't reset then you have them set up wrong or you have duplicate names on some of the required assets. That is correct for the invisible train, it is on the slave and acts as an on/off switch. ATLS slave will not operate without it. How you discarded the invisible train could be why it needs to save the route.

It's doing it repeatedly though. That's the problem.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

To make matters even worse after saving and exiting Trainz wants to take its sweet ass time to close down. I get impatient and stop it through Steam or Task Manager. This route is really unstable. I just might have to stop using it because it's causing me unpleasant headaches.

 

[JCitron]

To make matters even worse after saving and exiting Trainz wants to take its sweet ass time to close down. I get impatient and stop it through Steam or Task Manager. This route is really unstable. I just might have to stop using it because it's causing me unpleasant headaches.

This is going to corrupt your route and the rest of your database. You'll end up running an EDBR at best, or losing everything at worst. At this point, I would run a DBR because not doing so will make matters worse. If Trainz is busy while shutting down, it's closing the open database handles and shutting down gracefully. The process is more noticeable with full hard drives as Windows is swapping data around to make space and also on regular hard disks especially if they are highly fragmented.

As stagecoach says, ATLS crossings use an invisible locomotive to open and control the crossings. If the gates aren't resetting, it means that there's something incorrect with the setup, or as I've experienced, I've not completely exited the circuit. If you don't exit the close circuit trigger, then this will cause the crossing to remain active causing the gates not to open.

The alternative is to use the very versatile TRC crossings. They are a bit easier in some respects to the setup and they have some features such as stopping and starting within the crossing zone with gates going up to allow traffic to pass over the crossing.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

This is going to corrupt your route and the rest of your database. You'll end up running an EDBR at best, or losing everything at worst. At this point, I would run a DBR because not doing so will make matters worse. If Trainz is busy while shutting down, it's closing the open database handles and shutting down gracefully. The process is more noticeable with full hard drives as Windows is swapping data around to make space and also on regular hard disks especially if they are highly fragmented.

As stagecoach says, ATLS crossings use an invisible locomotive to open and control the crossings. If the gates aren't resetting, it means that there's something incorrect with the setup, or as I've experienced, I've not completely exited the circuit. If you don't exit the close circuit trigger, then this will cause the crossing to remain active causing the gates not to open.

The alternative is to use the very versatile TRC crossings. They are a bit easier in some respects to the setup and they have some features such as stopping and starting within the crossing zone with gates going up to allow traffic to pass over the crossing.

Well the route is based from 1990-1994 so I wanted it to have grade level crossings which reflect that era. TRC is my preferred method but they lack variety some that the ATLS still has even BNSF50 is no longer with us. I long for the day when more TRC crossings become available. Reggie left the community which has caused a major void in regards to TRC crossings. He made a lot of them.

I suspect the Grade XING NRC OH Wa 4L Gated is what's wrong because it NEVER works. All the other crossings work just fine. The setup is working as intended on the other routes but for this one the constant forcing me to overwrite the route which isn't a way of life on other properties of mine most likely contribute to the ATLS Crossings becoming messed up.

Side note: All of a sudden Trainz wants to freeze when switching from 2.0 to classic.

 

[JCitron]

Well the route is based from 1990-1994 so I wanted it to have grade level crossings which reflect that era. TRC is my preferred method but they lack variety some that the ATLS still has even BNSF50 is no longer with us. I long for the day when more TRC crossings become available. Reggie left the community which has caused a major void in regards to TRC crossings. He made a lot of them.

I suspect the Grade XING NRC OH Wa 4L Gated is what's wrong because it NEVER works. All the other crossings work just fine. The setup is working as intended on the other routes but for this one the constant forcing me to overwrite the route which isn't a way of life on other properties of mine most likely contribute to the ATLS Crossings becoming messed up.

Side note: All of a sudden Trainz wants to freeze when switching from 2.0 to classic.

The freeze is caused by data being loaded and written to writing to disk. I've witnessed this when I had Plus running on my old laptop with only 16 GB RAM and GT980 and switched between Classic and S20. I don't have that issue with my newer desktop or my new Alienware laptop.

You can use ATLS crossing gates with TRC. I've done it myself. You put in the same codes and don't connect up the invisible track. For better crossings, well remakes of BNSF50 crossings, check out those by JJeff1955 and Christorpher684. (CDE).

 

[AdvancedApproach]

The freeze is caused by data being loaded and written to writing to disk. I've witnessed this when I had Plus running on my old laptop with only 16 GB RAM and GT980 and switched between Classic and S20. I don't have that issue with my newer desktop or my new Alienware laptop.

You can use ATLS crossing gates with TRC. I've done it myself. You put in the same codes and don't connect up the invisible track. For better crossings, well remakes of BNSF50 crossings, check out those by JJeff1955 and Christorpher684. (CDE).

I might've done so in the past and it didn't work. Maybe it's doable today. I'll give it a try on my next project.