help with layers

[Lacker]

HI All,
It's been many a Moon since I was last on here, as I usually find a way to resolve any problem I have.
However using layers in way I can understand has me beat. Being a simple soul I like to work only with the route layer and I get very frustrated when any rolling stock I install on that layer disappears and can only be found on a session layer. I have tried merging layers and even routes but to no avail.
So if someone could tell me, in simple terms, how to install to route only I would be very grateful. I have suceeded on the odd occasion but then another session gets created and I am back to square one

 

[stagecoach]

A default session is also created when you edit a route or create a new route. You should be in the route layer at the start. If you select edit session you will start in the session layer. Trainz always needs a session layer present to work.
Check the layer tab to see which layer you are in when you start. You will also see in the layer tab a merge button, clicking on this will give you the option to merge layers.

 

[pware]

The first point to remember is that you cannot have a route without also having a session (the "session-layer"), even if that session has no visible assets. An "empty session will contain data such as the commodities waiting at industries, the loads carried by wagons, the drivers assigned to trains and their orders, amongst other "invisibles". If, after editing your route and setting any of these invisibles, you save the route only and not the session then that data will reset to the default values or become missing when you reload the saved route without reloading the saved session as well.

As you pointed out, rolling stock or any assets such as trees can also "disappear" if they are placed into a session layer and the session is not saved. As stagecoach points out above, it is important that you are always aware of which layer you are working with. The only cure to your problem is to make sure that you have a process in place where you are always aware of the layer that you are currently working with.

Are you using Surveyor 2.0 in TRS22PE or do you have TRS22 without the Surveyor 2.0 option?

With Surveyor 2.0 I always have the Layers Palette visible on the screen and this shows the current "active layer" where any newly added objects will be added. I also have the Info Layer on the screen and this shows the assigned layer of the currently selected object.

There is a reference to using layers that you may find useful at How_to_Use_Layers

 

[Lacker]

OK, I get it that a default session will always be created if there isn't one already. I also understand the session should be merged into the route and not other way round (found hat out the hard way and ended up with a blank Map, fortunately had backed up the original). Since my stroke, my ability to explain things is somewhat impaired so I will try to clarify my problem. I always edit route and not session but having put ,say, a consist on the route, when I go to save it, I only have the option to overwrite the current session or create a new one. There is no option, at that point, not to save session. so I always choose overwrite in order to save and of course the consist is not on the route layer

 

[pware]

There is no option, at that point, not to save session. so I always choose overwrite in order to save and of course the consist is not on the route layer

Thank you for the additional info, it clarifies a few things.

I have noticed that in the latest Trainz Plus and TRS22PE if you load just a route (no session) and immediately, without changing anything, exit then you will be given the options you described - overwrite the session or create a new session. But if you load a session and immediately exit without making any changes then no Save dialogue will appear.

Repeating your experiment by loading the route only and adding a consist, with the route-layer as the active layer, and immediately exiting gave the same results - I was asked to save or overwrite the session.

But loading the route only and adding a building, again with the route-layer as the active layer, and immediately exiting gave me the full save options - save a new route and session, overwrite the route with or without the session, etc, etc.

My conclusions - one (or all) of the following possibilities:-

1. to force a session to be saved when a route only has been loaded even if nothing has been edited in the session
2. to force users to save consists in the session, which has been the recommended method since the introduction of the UDS
3. a bug

In any case I will submit a bug report.

 

[Lacker]

Have just been trying to install rolling stock and adding a scenery item with it, as you say does the job and will be adopted as procedure from now on. Will be interested to see if anything results from your bug report in the future.
In the meantime very many thanks to you and stagecoach for your inputs much appreciated.

 

[pware]

Have just been trying to install rolling stock and adding a scenery item with it, as you say does the job and will be adopted as procedure from now on.

You don't actually have to add a scenery object, moving an existing object, one that is in a route layer, by just a few centimetres will also do the job.

 

[Lacker]

Tried that, but for me it didn't work, so I will try again, possible I didn't move it enough