Researching New Computer

[seeseeme]

Hi,

I am starting to look at replacing my computer but my knowledge on Hardware is close to ZERO :hehe: . Before I start getting down to selecting actual Hardware I may purchase, I have a few questions and thoughts from looking at threads here and computer sites/magazines. My current computer is just over 6 years old and while still working well (up to a point) I think I will need a new one sooner then later. Any new computer I get now I would like it to last another 6 years + as well, then it will be up to how much money I have left then. Just now the money is not to "short" but I still need to watch how much I spend. I would be happy with spending around $2,000 Aussie.

I will not be getting a new computer until at least Windows 7 comes out, so I do have time for researching and asking heaps of questions :hehe:

The main uses of my computer are Trainz, a couple of older games, general chatting and some surfing around from time to time, and maybe listen to music at times. The music side though is not that much for me to really need a separate Sound Card.

When I had this one built (with help from many forum members here) for me, there where some things I needed then that do not seem to be the case now.

First back in those dark days :hehe: , I needed a 3.5" Floopy "A" Drive. However everything I see now there is no mention of one, or only as an option. So how in todays computers do the Drives work? So if our main Drive is still Drive C, then any additional Hard Drives start as Drive A, then Drive B? or is it different.

For this computer, I have a CD-ROM Drive and a DVD R/W Drive (plus the A 3.5" Drive). In the past we could get a CD/DVD Combo drive, but now it all seems to be fully integrated. Such as this example;

Lite-On IHAS324(BLACK) SPR ALLWRITE, DVD+-24X8X8/ 8X4, DVDRAM12X, CD48X32X48, SATA.

I have very little knowledge on what all these numbers etc mean, some I can understand. Is there one company that makes the best Drives?

I have no idea about a CPU, but from threads here and what I have read Intel's i7 Core CPU is one of the best, such as;

Intel BX80601920 CORE i7 920/ 2.66GHz/ 4.8GT QPI/ 8MB CACHE/ LGA1366

Then for the RAM I have read that for this CPU;

Currently, the highest JEDEC standard speed is 1333MHz. The i7-920 and i7-940 processor memory bus will default to 1066MHz.

So what ever RAM I get (and I am not sure about the makes for them) I only need "1333MHz" (speed I think)? I have also seen here that DDR3 is now the better type of RAM.

I have no idea about Motherboards so any help here would be handy. Somewhere here I read that the ASUS motherboards are not as good as they once where and that a Gigabyte one may be better.

For the Hard Drives I have no real idea either, but I have heard of having my OS system in a different partition is better. I have never liked the idea of partitions, probably because I do not know much about them though I have seen people having problems. I wondered though if I had a small Hard Drive for the OS would this be better?

I am not sure about a Video Card either. I have seen mention of a GeForce 9800 being very good, though I have a memory of someone saying a lower GeForce card was better, though I can not remember the details.

Power Supply is one big thing I have noticed in many threads here, so I am looking at around the 650W power supply, would this be enough or may be go higher.

Thats about enough for now, many thanks for any help.

Craig

 

[Tanvaras]

Hello Craig.

This would be something to look at I would think.

Core I7 920 CPU $200
Gigabyte EX58 UD3R $300
6 Gig DDR3 1333mhz Kingston/OCR/Corsair memory $150
XFX G/force GTX275 $400 (I dont like ATI - too many hassles with them in my business over the years)
800 Watt PSU (decent brand, no cheapies here) $225
Case - What you prefer
Hdd's - what ever you choose.
DVD burner etc what ever you choose.
Monitor, keyboard, mouse speakers, what ever you choose to your liking or re-use your old ones.

These are systems I sell a lot off for gamers lately.

Hope that helps mate.

Cheers

Trent

 

[saintjimmy]

I would recommend waiting for the new generation of cards (ATI 5000 series and the nVidia 300 series).

I would totally recommend ATI (but I like & use ATI and nVida has wierd naming tactics) But both are good companies & have high performance cards. I've just had great experiences with ATI and not so great with nVidia (so it's totally my opinion)

Sapphire (makes ATI cards) has good overclocked cards with more advanced cooling techniques - Look around at HD 4890 cards with Vapor-X cooling because there's a 1 GHz model that can almost compare to a GTX 285 for over $100 less. Just throwing it out there, even though you still should wait a few months. ATI will be releasing the 5000 series around the time of Windows 7, with nVidia following around or just after the end of the year.

I had a long drawn out post, but then something happened and it disappeared .

Good luck

Kyle

 

[seeseeme]

Thanks Trent,

Now that you mentioned it, I have seen some one mention a XFX card on the forum and they where happy with it. 800W Power supply .... WOW :hehe: gone are the days when a basic case and power supply (forget what my current one is) where reasonably cheap and easy/nasty. Though some of the comments about cases and the different ones have been interesting.

Which reminds me with cases, I have had a look at "Antec" cases and in some of them you can have additional fans. Would I be advised to fill up as many fans as I can, they are reasonably cheap anyway.

I have seen mention here of "Corsair" RAM as well as "Kingston", so they may just depend on the price at the time.

Thanks again,

Craig

 

[Tanvaras]

Hey Craig,

Antec make great cases, I use them always.

With Fans just make sure you get the balance right so air coming in, also is going out. I see alot of systems having fans all over the place and there is too much air getting pumped in but not enough pushing it out. Air flow is a big thing for keeping systems cool. But all in all todays systems run alot cooler than yester years ones.

Make sure you shop around for your parts, the prices I put up I feel you should be able to get cheaper than that if you spend some times checking a few places out. If you are happy to building the system yourself saves some cash as well. I see to many PC stores down my way that the overall price of a pre built system are way over the price of all the parts separate (Retail $$)

Have fun shopping mate

Cheers

Trent

 

[john259]

One approach would be to use Dell's web site as a means of research. Choose a model (a fairly high end one for Trainz), go into its customise option and step through the choices for each component. This will take quite a long time but it will give you a good idea of the various performance factors and cost implications. There is also some additional "help me choose" information for each component. Needless to say you don't need to actually purchase from them.

The Tom's Hardware Guide web site has a graphics card article which includes a very useful list of boards in descending order of graphics processing power.

For explanations of any technical terms that you're not familiar with, Wikipedia will usually prove useful.

HTH, John

 

[seeseeme]

WOW, I just looked at a GTX275 and did not understand a lot of what it could do

In a way it looked to be able to do more then I want, as with High Definition and the Blue-Ray thingo. I will be waiting for a while and just looking, and taking notes too.

Looking at the card though did remind me of 2 things to ask. In one thread here someone mentioned about the size of Monitors and from memory after a certain size you may start loosing some of the quality. So would the size of a monitor depend on the Graphics/Video Card you choose? Or is there a basic "limit" to get a good quality image, such as 19", 20" etc.

The other thing I also thought about was that I think Windows 7 will come out with a choice between 32-bit and 64-bit. Does this also depend on other parts such as your video card/motherboard etc????

Thanks,

Craig

 

[Scitimar]

Hello Craig.

This would be something to look at I would think.

Core I7 920 CPU $200

snipped --> overpriced

Trent

I'll take as many of those 920s as you can supply at that price ... cash

:hehe:

 

[LieLestoSbrat]

Windows 7 comes in both 32bit and 64bit on a retail disk, but with a computer with anything over 4gb of ram you want to be sticking 64bit on. In my view though I would just go with 64bit and I think that in the next few years more program developers will be making programs that will take advantage of 64bit computing. Drivers can be a bit of a pain for older harder on 64bit, but as your buying a new machine that shouldn't be a problem.

Rob

 

[S301]

First off, if you want to use Trainz, I would advise against using ATI. Most of the reports I see for graphics errors are on computers running ATI video cards. This is just an observation on my part, and is only my own opinion.

Zec

 

[Tanvaras]

I'll take as many of those 920s as you can supply at that price ... cash

:hehe:

I dont deal in much hardware as I mainly do contract technical work, but when I do build I dont put a heap of markup like a lot of places. My buy price on those are quite nice, I can happily sell them for 200 and make enough to be happy.

Alot of places I deal with have ridiculous markups, this is why there is so many people ripped off. I dont work that way. But as I mentioned hardware is not my money maker,so I pretty much pass HW on cost plus basis. Way more money in technical services (Just ask the Tax office they sent me a very nice bill this year......DAMN THEM!)

Cheers

Trent

 

[Stagefright]

Hi,

The music side though is not that much for me to really need a separate Sound Card...

However everything I see now there is no mention of one, or only as an option. So how in todays computers do the Drives work? So if our main Drive is still Drive C, then any additional Hard Drives start as Drive A, then Drive B? or is it different.

Is there one company that makes the best Drives?

Good to see you back, Craig! I remember the bad old days when you were struggling to get Trainz to run...*sigh.

Anyway, in order:

1. Modern integrated sound cards are wonderful & work well for 95% of us. I wouldn't bother getting a sound card.
2. As a holdover from the old DOS days, Windows reserves drives A & B for floppies, so C: is your first hard drive. Your next drive, D:, could be either another hard drive, optical (CD/DVD) or even a flash drive, depending on what you've got. Also, a physical drive can be partitioned into two or more drives. Some enthusiasts just put Windows on the C: drive and then install everything else onto D: or whatever. This is so that Windows can be deleted/reinstalled without erasing all the other files. Note that programs will still need to be reinstalled after a Windows install/reinstall. I don't bother partitioning, but this is an option & works well.
3. I would recommend an additional hard drive or external drive for backup. I personally haven't seen any big difference among the major brand names (Maxtor, Seagate, WD, Hitachi, etc.)
4. ASUS and Gigabyte both make high quality motherboards; Intel processors are currently the highest performance, but I prefer AMD due to their lower cost and bigger 'bang for the buck.' Either will serve you well.
5. I would recommend at least 4 GB of RAM under 64-bit Windows. Note you MAY have problems running old programs/games.

Keep us informed on your progress...good luck!

Darrel

 

[GP30Fan]

General Info

To compare apples and oranges with computer
hardware... this is a great site. Lots of tech
info which is sometimes a bit much to understand
but the final conclusion section kind of puts in
all in perspective. It covers all kinds of hardware
from CPU's to soundcards to video to cases.
Pretty much covers anything you might want to
put in the box.

www.anandtech.com

Agree on the bang for the buck with AMD altho
the I7 seems to be unbeatable at this point.
Bottom line is there is a price to be paid to be
top dog.

 

[johnwhelan]

I'd think about Directx 11 and solid state drives in your time frame.

Cheerio John

 

[Apogee10]

Hi Craig

I just had a new computer built to my specifications to use for Trainz and I am very happy with the performance. I ordered the main components from
newegg.com and had my local computer shop assemble the system.

1. Gigabyte GA-Ep45-UD3R Intel Motherboard $109 USD
2. EVGA GeForce GTX 260 896 MB Video card $220
3. Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0 GHz processor $165
4. ATX case $107
5. 850 watt power supply $189
6. 120 mm cooling fan $35
7. Seagate Barracuda 3.0 GB hard drive $!00
8. 2.0 GB memory
9. DVD burner $60
10. DVD-CD combo read/burn $149
11. Labor to assemble $100

I have had the system since Dec 2008 and it doesn't even hesitate to run the busiest Trainz routes at 50 FPS and above.

Earl

 

[Rougespear7mm]

As for CPU clock speeds... I have an E7300 Core2Duo factory-clocked @ 2.66GHz. I noticed a pretty darn good performance increase with framerates when I overclocked it to 3.2GHz. Even though the quad-core processors are nice, I've been told and agree that a higher clock speed with two cores is better than a lower clock speed with quad-cores. The E8400 is an easily overclocked chip as well; solid performance for a decent price!

I was an Athlon man but I've since started with Intel now - their chips perform sooo much better. And their cost really isn't too much more. I picked up my chip off ebay brand new for 80USD.

For motherboards, if you want to have this thing functioning nicely for the next six years, I would make it a priority to have an SLI-ready board with DDR3 memory. Trainz does not see much of a performance increase running in SLI, but who knows what the next few years will uncover. Nvidia is more money for the card, but less hassle all together.

Food for thought...

 

[seeseeme]

Good to see you back, Craig! I remember the bad old days when you were struggling to get Trainz to run...*sigh.

I would recommend an additional hard drive or external drive for backup. I personally haven't seen any big difference among the major brand names (Maxtor, Seagate, WD, Hitachi, etc.)

Keep us informed on your progress...good luck!

Darrel

Many thanks every one for your comments. Trying to match Computer components up with what to that make a good working system to me is the hardest. I have been look at people systems and their combinations, this helps me a lot.

Yeah Stagefright, I am think of an external Hard Drive. My current system has 3 Hard Drives and one is for backing up. At the moment the thought of the external one is for later on.

I have been around Stagefright, just not posting as much as I did in the "good old days" ........ they where a great time and so is this, just a few newer people and with some of the older ones moving on. Still the best forum I have ever been part of though, just look at the help here and in many, many other threads.

Thanks again everyone, I'll continue looking and posting more questions.

Craig

 

[SuperFudd]

Earl,

Only 2G of RAM? What OS?

 

[itareus]

Craig,

.....I've been told and agree that a higher clock speed with two cores is better than a lower clock speed with quad-cores.....

Likely to be true (opinions vary) and something to consider if you have to balance price against performance, but if you can afford it get the fastest Quad core available (currently i7?)

First off, if you want to use Trainz, I would advise against using ATI. Most of the reports I see for graphics errors are on computers running ATI video cards. This is just an observation on my part, and is only my own opinion.

I think I am right in saying that Nvidia has better OpenGL support than ATI and that Trainz prefers OpenGL.

**

Hard drive: Get the fastest you can - and possibly also a solid state drive as John W suggests. Minimum size 500gb.

O/S: I'd go for Windows 7 64 bit. There are thread on the forum saying Trainz runs well on this.

RAM: Again get the fastest you can (should be DDR3). With Windows 7 64 bit I would put in at least 6gb, make sure some slots are left free for adding RAM later.

With the above I'm thinking of "future proofing", as far as this is possible! Trainz will run well on much lower spec machines.

Above all the machine must be well "balanced" - no good having a 4 lane highway feeding into a single track dirt road.....

Why not keep your old PC and network it as a backup machine?

Hope this is of some help.

Chris

 

[Euphod]

Craig, my only piece of advice would be to avoid the bleeding edge. If you haven't up graded your PC for some time, then almost any advancement you make is going to impress you for quite awhile. Sure, there's something to be said for "future proofing" (what a ridiculous concept!), but remember that the first ones over the wall almost always take it in the head and/or chest!

I find that upgrading to the technology that is currently being replaced is a fine compromise, sometimes the third generation gear will do nicely, and it will be far less expensive as well.

And yes, when I'm injured I settle for 2nd or 3rd aid!