Realistic Locomotive Physics

Kris94

Banned
I'd like to see more realistic train power in the game. In real life, three GEVOS could pull 70+ cars at 55 MPH and over. But on here it seems even for a 60 car train I need at least three locomotives just to get 60 mph and it struggles to get even up to 65 MPH. Realistically two locomotives can get to 65 mph in 5 minutes tops. I'm using the SD70 series locomotives, AC44s, Dash9s and GEVOs, which are very powerful locomotives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PovFxZoM8h4

This video is evident. These are DC motor units we are dealing with here. Not AC units. These locomotives got a long train up to 40 mph in about two minutes at the most. Even with a long train. Look towards the end of the video and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
Locomotive performance is controlled by the enginespec kuid referenced in the locos config.txt file. Early versions of enginespecs need changes to work properly for TS2009 and newer versions. What are the kuid numbers of the enginespecs of your locos?

Bob
 
I use Jointed Rail, RRMODS, and World of Trainz locomotives. That might help in a way to figure out what engine specs they use since mostly everybody uses those three companies for payware locomotives. But in TRS2004 and TRS2006 I could get a train to speed and slow in a heartbeat. It literally took 10 seconds to go from full speed to a halt. But then the enginespecs where probably suited for that and those versions don't have the resources or capabilities these versions have.
 
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Depending on the specific locomotive specs, the number of locos needed, the weight of the consist, the length of consist, the gradient involved ... on my Horseshoe route, at a +1.75% grade, a 137 car empty coal train, with 4 head end units, and 2 more shoving on the rear, it usually stalls a few miles west of Altoona. I have to put an unprototypical 6-8 locos head end, and 2-4 more shoving on the rear.

The NS typical consist is 2-3 locos head end only ... and NS's trains sometimes stall on the prototype.

In CAB mode downhill braking of a 137 car loaded coal train requires precision train handling, and uphill pulling is quite problematic, requiring sand, and or dynamic braking, with many brake applications.

DCC is totally unrealistic physics wise.
 
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I've generally found that engines can pull too much... 14XX tank engines appear to be capable of almost anything.
 
If I remember correctly, some old engine specs from old versions of Trainz may not work as well as the new ones do, and if one engine is off, the entire train is limited by the one messed up unit.
 
Hi Kris,

Another factor is rollingstock physics, default wagon produces way to much friction and it's hard to get trains moving, and when they are moving you need to be constant notch 8 to keep it up to speed on level track, go down to notch 7 or 6 and there's a heavy braking effect on the bearings.

You might want to try physics on DLS, Stovepipe and myself have some which is based on wagon weight and drag that wagon puts out by calculating it on the number of wagons/weight a locomotive can pull on a 1in48 grade at continuous rating.

Cheers.
 
Would swapping engine-specs make a difference?
Hi Kris,

Yes, a example of default wagon is if you have a single locomotive running at 70mph then go down 2 notches you rapidly loose speed which is unrealistic as a locomotive should be able to drop into notch 4 and coast the train for some distance as that's what roller bearings do, default wagon makes a 25 ton car feel like it's 60tons, a 50 ton car feels like it's 90tons.

If you want to try some rollingstock physics use this one on a wagon between 45 to 60tons <kuid:404079:1041> and you'll noticed a difference, you do need to remove all rollingstock and re-add them to the session for the changes to work.

Cheers.
 
A bad cab driver? I don't think that's possible. I use Rail Driver so that would make me an advanced driver. I'm still learning most of the buttons aside from the main ones of course but that's to be expected.
 
No, this problem took place for all rolling stock in this game. For example our (Russian) community now uses enginespecs for wagons with reduced in 4 times friction (compared to default specs).
 
A bad cab driver? I don't think that's possible. I use Rail Driver so that would make me an advanced driver. I'm still learning most of the buttons aside from the main ones of course but that's to be expected.

I'm talking about how much power to use, when to change up and down, when to brake, when to not brake and other stuff. Using Rail Driver doesn't make you an advanced driver, it makes you a wealthy driver
 
Gear ratios differences have been around for years. The 'sorta' standard EMD gear ratio has been 62:15 - This gave a speed of about 65 mph with 1st generation engines(like the GP9) and 71 mph on most later production. The actual traction motor is the limiter. The maximum rotational speed of the traction motor determines potential top speed. If the motor is spinning too fast at maximum load, the copper winding will 'soften' and fly out - ground short to the motor case. This is why you hear about 'bird nesting' a traction motor. This has been a limitation with DC traction motors. AC traction motors do not have the same limitations.

I remember that BN used 60:17 for most of their merchandise SD40-2 fleet at one time, but had 61:16 for dual service merchandise/coal SD40-2's The faster the top end is, the high the minimum continuous speed is(and this affects the 'short time' rating). I am not sure what the current gear ratio information is for the BNSF flee

Ok here are the EMD gear ratios and top speed for each based on pre D77 traction motors and 40" wheels.

65:12 gearing 55 mph. used on a lot of early switch engines and some early road engines.
62:15 gearing 65 mph by far the most common EMD gear ratio for road locomotives
61:16 gearing 71 mph used by roads wanting a little faster speed and on some dual service engines
60:17 gearing 77 mph. used by BN and others for fast freight
59:18 gearing 85 mph used by UP on the DDA40X and "Fast Forty" SD40-2s used by newer pass.
58:19 gearing 92 mph fairly rare but some use made of this ratio
57:20 gearing 98 mph. fairly common passenger gearing for E-units with 36" wheels giving 91 mph
56:21 gearing 105 mph but most common on E-units giving 100 mph top speed
55:22 gearing 115 mph common E-unit gearing giving 110 mph speed with 36" wheels
When the physically stronger D77 and D87 motors appeared top speeds were bumped up about 5 or 6 mph.
Most Amtrak EMD locomotives (SDP40F and F40PH) had 57:20 gearing and were set up for 100 mph maximum. A small pool of F40PH locomotives received 56:21 gearing and a 110 mph max. speed for eastern service.
Common GE gear ratios were 74:18 for freight service, and its "Fine Mesh" replacement 83:20. IIRC a common dual service GE ratio was 65:24 giving an 85 mph top speed. This would have been found on RS3 and RS11 locomotives set up for secondary passenger service.

Gear ratio does affect tractive effort so higher speed ratios lower the T.E. You can mix and match ratios as long as you understand that those locomotives with higher ratios also have higher minimum continuous rated speeds, and those with lower top speeds must not be operated faster than their top speed. In practice a little difference is not a big deal, but using locomotives with a big difference is likely to cause trouble.

Just to clarify-- when you compare two engines, identical except one has 56:21 and the other has 65:12, the latter engine will have a higher maximum TE. But at a given speed (above, say, 20 mph) the two engines will pull about the same.


Probably more correct to say that the latter (65:12) engine will have a higher continuous tractive effort. I would be surprised of most locomotives with 56:21 gear rations have the maximum short term tractive effort limited by adhesion.


A EMD D77B traction motor produces 4850 lbs of torque as it starts to rotate. Assuming 40" wheels the T.E. at the rail would be the following
62:15 20,030 lbs.
61:16 18,478 lbs
60:17 17,121 lbs
59:18 15,908 lbs
58:19 14,792 lbs
57:20 13,822 lbs
56:21 12,949 lbs

Chances are that a higher-geared engine will have the same starting tractive effort as a lower geared engine - which would typically be limited by adhesion. You just have to feed more current into the traction motor, but that means that the time that a higher-geared engine can produce adhesion limited tractive effort is substantially less than what a lower geared engine is capable of.
 
I'm talking about how much power to use, when to change up and down, when to brake, when to not brake and other stuff. Using Rail Driver doesn't make you an advanced driver, it makes you a wealthy driver

​Okay i'm confused now. I don't understand what you mean.
 
A bad cab driver? I don't think that's possible. I use Rail Driver so that would make me an advanced driver. I'm still learning most of the buttons aside from the main ones of course but that's to be expected.

sorry kris94, but by this logic, I can say I've played surgery simulator so I am an advanced surgeon.
 
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