And I'm sure most of those folks who bought from Amazon, Microsoft, Wal-mart, etc. said the same thing ... till their purchases stopped working.
Railworks 3 to be released in september
- Thread starter raildumper
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And I'm sure most of those folks who bought from Amazon, Microsoft, Wal-mart, etc. said the same thing ... till their purchases stopped working.
Retro00064
New member
First of all, the text logo for the simulator "Train Simulator 2012" is so similar to the style that N3V uses on their simulator products (Trainz and others), and even the name "Train Simulator 2012" is so similar to N3V's "Trainz Simulator 12", that there is a possibility that N3V could have a case against RSC for using packaging, naming, etc., that could be deceptive, deceiving buyers in to thinking that it is a Trainz product or related to Trainz (remember what I said about the text logo and name?). If RSC is choosing to use this deceptive name and text logo to be deceptive deliberately, will I be surprised? No, given the similarities that I have just pointed out. Look at the box art that they are showing on their website which the original poster linked to; it could pass as N3V Trainz box art. If N3V sues RSC for this, then go N3V! 
Some of the screenshots look promising, such as the cow going to drink, but with such suspicious name/logo/box art, who can say that they are not doing that which is illegal? Do I want to spend my money on this if they are doing so?
And what about the amount of custom content? Trainz has hundreds of thousands of free assets accumulated over almost a whole decade on the DLS alone, plus plenty more free and payware assets out there on the Internet world-wide. N3V thus has a huge selling point. How many free assets does Railworks have in comparison? Let me guess: the Railworks community better start working very hard if they want to have a comparable amount of free assets available very soon.
Oh, and are they just now introducing stars in the sky at night and moving coulds?
TRS2004 has that, UTC probably does also, and TRS2004 improved on UTC by adding animated cloud-to-ground lightning strikes and screen-wide flashes. TRS2004 also improved on UTC with the Water2 system that looks more realistic and has sky (?) and sun reflections. 
And what is the real point of this thread? To criticise Trainz and promote Railworks? Or the other way around? The same types of opinions get yapped out over and over again in such Railworks versus Trainz threads, so are such threads not a waste of server space? Server space that N3V is paying to host?
But above all, every man has his own preferences, so if a man chooses one over the other, that is his choice and right. We can yap like barking dogs all we want, but that is his choice and right.
Oh, and "best in the world" is such a typical claim by competing companies these days that it is most certainly not worth believing, unless you are of the gullible type that jumps on eyelash products whose commercials show some beautiful model whose benefit from the advertised product obviously was probably there anyway without using the advertised product.
Regards.
Some of the screenshots look promising, such as the cow going to drink, but with such suspicious name/logo/box art, who can say that they are not doing that which is illegal? Do I want to spend my money on this if they are doing so?
And what about the amount of custom content? Trainz has hundreds of thousands of free assets accumulated over almost a whole decade on the DLS alone, plus plenty more free and payware assets out there on the Internet world-wide. N3V thus has a huge selling point. How many free assets does Railworks have in comparison? Let me guess: the Railworks community better start working very hard if they want to have a comparable amount of free assets available very soon.
Oh, and are they just now introducing stars in the sky at night and moving coulds?
TRS2004 has that, UTC probably does also, and TRS2004 improved on UTC by adding animated cloud-to-ground lightning strikes and screen-wide flashes. TRS2004 also improved on UTC with the Water2 system that looks more realistic and has sky (?) and sun reflections. And what is the real point of this thread? To criticise Trainz and promote Railworks? Or the other way around? The same types of opinions get yapped out over and over again in such Railworks versus Trainz threads, so are such threads not a waste of server space? Server space that N3V is paying to host?
But above all, every man has his own preferences, so if a man chooses one over the other, that is his choice and right. We can yap like barking dogs all we want, but that is his choice and right.
Oh, and "best in the world" is such a typical claim by competing companies these days that it is most certainly not worth believing, unless you are of the gullible type that jumps on eyelash products whose commercials show some beautiful model whose benefit from the advertised product obviously was probably there anyway without using the advertised product.
Regards.
Those were the things I was looking for. It's all eye candy to me. If the AI was actually artificially intelligent, and actually did do something other than creep along when someone flipped a switch on them, I'd say that's an improvement.
Also the editor from what I've seen is horrid, just as frustrating as the one for MSTS.
John
The new upgrade is called Railworks Train Simulator 3 just like Railworks 2. Also the night sky and moving sky has been with the game since rail simulator. There is a lot of stuff going on over at Railworks america as in free files we are getting there but slowly.But at one good thing is that Railworks dont charge for every upgrade like trainz does. They care about there people.
Boobless_ed
Will this do?
Wow, haters will be haters.
Indeed....
The screenshots show some nice lighting effects, with objects casting multiple shadows from multiple light sources. Notice also that all objects appear to be casting shadows (and soft-edged shadows at that.) The water also looks nice.
I don't know how it plays, but the promo screenshots *look* nice.
I doubt I'll try it, but I do wish them luck...
Curtis
Be quiet you darn spy.
Trainz is still my first love. Railworks needs to be thrown in a dumpster, then burned.
Wow you are going to deny deny deny. Thats fine if you like Railworks. But stop convincing stuff with obvious misinformation.
First its called Railworks 3 Train Simulator 2012, not Train Simulator 3, which is very close to the N3V title.
Second the Railworks 3 code is not getting "rewritten" at least it says nothing like that in the FAQ page.
Third so you get Railworks 3 for free, did you read whats included in it? The FAQ say you get a EMD F7 and a British Steam engine. Then it says shortly after release of there will be a bunch of DLC packs so looks like your going to be paying for all the content in it.
And finally I like how you say "we" meaning that you represent all the Railworks community. I think one of the main reason Trainz has so much content is because of the power Content Manager actually is. Its so easy to clone and reskin an asset or install content. I think JointedRail can produce more US freeware that looks better then Railworks faster then the people at Railworks can produce free content. I will probably be crictize for a blatant Protrainz statement above. I will say Trainz is by any means not perfect but its by far, the most enjoyable, and easy to use. This is looking it as a whole. Installing/editing content, Route Building, and Session Running/editing.
My thoughts,
hert:wave:
Retro00064
New member
No. On the website linked to by raildumper, http://www.railsimulator.com/microsite_ts2012/index.html, it is clearly called "Train Simulator 2012". The box art screenshot does have "Railworks 3" on it, but it is in smaller/lesser text than the huge Train Simulator 2012 text.
Then why does the FAQ PDF for Train Simulator 2012 list the following as a new feature, under the "Gameplay" heading?: "Improved skies with stars and moving clouds".
Not every thing is free. N3V is a rather small company that has to pay to develop Trainz, to run the website and DLS servers and keep them maintained, to market their product, and other costs that the business has to deal with. I believe that a large portion of N3V's Trainz customers are repeat customers--those who buy new versions of Trainz when they come out, including those who have been with the community for years. Without them, how would N3V earn enough money to stay in business? Auran (the original company) actually went bankrupt around 4 or 5 years ago, from what I have read, and then became N3V. They already had a good number of long-time community members (repeat customers) from the several years that Trainz had been in existance before then. N3V considers different editions of Trainz to be different individual products, and rightfully so. I suspect that many, many other companies think likewise. So before saying that Railworks is better when it comes to the developer's customers because they give new versions to existing users for free, consider all of this. Not every thing in this world is free. Also, please tell me how RSC is able to give existing Railworks users new versions for free, yet continue to stay in business. Perhaps they sell enough payware assets to make ends meet?
If, after all of this, you still think that N3V should give new versions of Trainz to existing users for free to compete with Railworks, then I will think that maybe you expect a little too much out of N3V.I was looking at Train Simulator 2012's FAQ PDF on its website, and not only is Train Simulator 2012 named similar to Trainz Simulator 12: they are also using the initialism "TS2012" for their product, further increasing the likelyhood of confusion, in my opinion!
Regards.
Having now had a chance to inspect the screenshots of the (RSC) TS12, I am very impressed though they have obviously been composed and selected to show things in the best possible light. Will know more when they upload a video clip but superelevation alone is going to be worth the free upgrade. It looks at this stage as if all the previous content is going to work on the new game engine, unlike N3V where every time Jet gets updated something is lost - look at what got chucked out to give us (N3V) TS12? Okay they relented and put the assets on the DLS but there's still no compatability mode for stuff which hasn't been updated.
In 10 years of "Jet" development, Auran/N3V still haven't been able to get track splines to draw proper points and crossings, or fix the restrictions on placing splined tunnels. I know Jim (Sniper) curses the AI/signalling in RW/RSC-TS12 but at least I can create a player scenario which has the game calculate and set the route for me and follow a timetable without resorting to obscure commands. My interest lies primarily in single track mountainous railroads with little or no other traffic around which doesn't tax the RW dispatcher too much.
As my purchase history above shows I've always supported Trainz but I think this time if RSC deliver on their promise this is a real wake up call to Auran/N3V that you can't just keep redoing the same old thing and charge for it and expect other than the blind faithful to buy it.
In 10 years of "Jet" development, Auran/N3V still haven't been able to get track splines to draw proper points and crossings, or fix the restrictions on placing splined tunnels. I know Jim (Sniper) curses the AI/signalling in RW/RSC-TS12 but at least I can create a player scenario which has the game calculate and set the route for me and follow a timetable without resorting to obscure commands. My interest lies primarily in single track mountainous railroads with little or no other traffic around which doesn't tax the RW dispatcher too much.
As my purchase history above shows I've always supported Trainz but I think this time if RSC deliver on their promise this is a real wake up call to Auran/N3V that you can't just keep redoing the same old thing and charge for it and expect other than the blind faithful to buy it.
A little unfair, given that RSC follow the Gillette* model of sales - sell the base product dirt cheap, and then make profit on the hundreds of after-sales refills (DLC), taking a piece of the pie even on (most) 3rd party sales.
N3V on the other hand haven't concentrated on content at all until recently, and instead have followed the business model of selling the product, and letting 3rd parties make the after-sales refills (content).
* Given that RW has had a bundled 'first hit' DLC for the last 3 years, it might be more fair to label their business model 'the crack dealer's business model'.
Lighting still isn't as good as OpenBVE's lighting model though, nor is the weather model - although I'm sure they got inspired for the weather effects from the Cross City v2 demo video that shows rain gorgeously streaming down the windows.
raildumper
Awaiting...
Realtime shadows projected by any object, lighting, moon phases and stars, realtime weather, seasons, DEM created routes, satellite photographs auto-texturing the terrain (not just decals but real textures) with LODs and the abillity to re-texture by hand, superelevation of tracks and a lot of things i don't remember right now (damned tequila on a wedding) ... well all of this is featured in our own rail sim we are developing. Eye-candy, i know, but having learned from all errors made by the actual rail sims, the AI is not going to be a mere "run-around but don`t interfere"
So nothing that the next Railworks offers is new to us. Shouldn`t N3V and RSC take note of this? In development by the smallest (i think, we are two) rail sim creator company. Graphically, years ahead. Operationally, to be confirmed.
Take a look at it:
http://www.quattrostudios.net/foro_qds/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=46
It will indeed be interesting to see what is eventually released. It's always hard to know from screenshots. Whatever improvements they've made, hopefully it will be another solid step forward for the railroading market.
Very little? Certainly native mode has been around for years now, so it's not like we didn't give plenty of time for the faulty content to be repaired. We've also instigated the DLS repair program to ensure that faulty content created by people who have gone inactive for one reason or another can be repaired. There will always be some loss of compatibility whenever major changes are made, and that goes for all products not just ours- but I'm pretty happy with the level of effort that we've put into compatibility.
Q: Will Trainz Simulator 12 include all the content from previous editions?
A: Not in the box. The installer is two DVDs worth with just the TS12 content, and much of the content carried over from previous versions is starting to show its age. We do understand that everybody has their favourite route or other content from the earlier games, and to prevent disappointment we'll be uploading nearly the entire back-catalogue of included content onto the Download Station for TS12 users. The most notable exceptions here will be the TS2010-specific routes and dedicated payware packs.
- TS12 FAQ, 12th April 2011.
A: Not in the box. The installer is two DVDs worth with just the TS12 content, and much of the content carried over from previous versions is starting to show its age. We do understand that everybody has their favourite route or other content from the earlier games, and to prevent disappointment we'll be uploading nearly the entire back-catalogue of included content onto the Download Station for TS12 users. The most notable exceptions here will be the TS2010-specific routes and dedicated payware packs.
- TS12 FAQ, 12th April 2011.
Hardly "relenting" when we say exactly that in the product FAQ
Thank you for your support, we appreciate that. I think that we're pretty comfortable with our products and our plans for the future. We welcome the competition.
cheers,
chris
@ raildumper
So I took a look.......... I can see where you are coming from now.
If you can do it with an existing game engine then Ogre, which I have dabbled with in one of it's earlier incarnations, is probably a good choice, even better is it's Open Source and runs in Linux, Windows and OSX! and love or hate there is even a SpeedTree plugin for it, if you have a large amount of cash to spare that is..........
I wish you luck on that project.
Whether people like RW or not, competition can only be good, if there wasn't any, from a business point of view there wouldn't be as much incentive for spending money on development and improvements.
So I took a look.......... I can see where you are coming from now.
If you can do it with an existing game engine then Ogre, which I have dabbled with in one of it's earlier incarnations, is probably a good choice, even better is it's Open Source and runs in Linux, Windows and OSX! and love or hate there is even a SpeedTree plugin for it, if you have a large amount of cash to spare that is..........
I wish you luck on that project.
Whether people like RW or not, competition can only be good, if there wasn't any, from a business point of view there wouldn't be as much incentive for spending money on development and improvements.
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
post deleted
Last edited:
Hi IKB and Everybody
Nice to see you back on the forum IKB as I have missed your postings and our respectful arguments. If this thread does nothing else but see you post again then it will have been worth it.
On topic, as you can see I purchased very many versions of Trainz over the years with the exception of 2012. My sole reason for not purchasing that is the continuous manual patches which seem to increase in number with each version.
I have never have patched 2010 after reading the number of problems users encountered during and after installing. I did think of purchasing 2010 again so that it would come with all the patches only to be informed on the forum that if I did that I would still have to manually patch to the latest version after purchase. (Something I found incredible)
With Railworks all the patches are downloaded and installed automatically almost without me knowing. I know many forum members will say they do not wish this to happen because of security threats etc. However with Microsoft windows it happens all the time and no one seems to worry about that too much, so I content myself with that, and have never found any problem with the Microsoft or Steam updates. So, that has been the issue with Trainz that stop me purchasing 2012 and probably future versions.
I know Trainz 2012 is available on Steam but the patches still have to be applied manually so I am informed, if that is not the case would somebody let me know and I may consider buying through Steam
Bill
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
From what I've gathered the TS12 update for the Steam version has already been released, and should be on automatic update.
Shane
Shane
amigacooke
Well-known member
Well Railworks 3 may be brilliant, but I won't know until September when I can get my free update. 
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