Quick Question

[susanaes]

Ok so ive always wondered this when editing a route should you do it with the route itself or in the session?

 

[mjolnir]

There is no single answer to this, as it depends upon what you want to change, and how you want to change it. If you want to change track in the route layer, then that's where you'd make the changes. If you want to change a building, and the building is in the route layer, then again, you'd edit the route layer, But in something like a complicated industry, the track might be in the route layer, and some of the buildings in one layer, and some in another, so you might have to edit all three.

ns.

 

[oknotsen]

The answer is actually very simple:
If you want to edit the route, you edit the route.
If you want to edit the session, you edit the session.

But I agree with mjolnir on one part: If you dont know what is in what, you have to learn that first.
As a rule of the thumb:
Everything is in the route with the exception of rolling stock and specific object settings.

 

[susanaes]

ok i was just wondering because im always editing it in the route

 

[davesnow]

No, always edit the SESSION. If you have a session already created, and you attempt to edit the route and then save it, you'll lose your session entirely. This is my experience anyway. It has to do with those unneeded layers. Why they even created Layers for Trainz is beyond my understanding.

Whenever I want to edit my route, the first thing I do is open to edit the session and immediately merge the session into the route. That way, when you save it, you overwrite the route AND session, and therefore, you don't lose anything.

`

 

[oknotsen]

No, always edit the SESSION. If you have a session already created, and you attempt to edit the route and then save it, you'll lose your session entirely. This is my experience anyway.

I guess you got unlucky or are doing something bad / wrong. Probably something like deleting tracks that had trains on them in the session.

Again:
Want to edit the route? Edit the route and NOT the session.

Works fine and I got 8 sessions on the DLS to proof it does. 4 sessions created for the route before the last route extension was created and uploaded, 4 sessions build for that extension. New extension with 3 more sessions soon(tm) to be released. All 11 working fine.

See it as painting:
You can repaint your living room, but you first have to move the furniture to another room else they might get damaged.
Room = part of route.
Furniture = consists in session.

 

[Falcus]

Eh, Dave isn't wrong. You *Can* lose big pieces of a session if you try to edit the Route Layer by unlocking it through the session layer....

But this gets back to what you were saying earlier Oknosten. It depends on what you want to do. You have to think about that before you start. If you say, create a route, decide you're happy with it, then go make a session, and while you're editing the session decide you REALLY hate that Brown Tree you put at Mile Post 55, you really need to save the session, back out, and re-open through the Route Editor, else wise risk damaging your session.

But if all you want to do is drop some locomotives and rolling stock down, make a few AI paths, set up some Portals, and go rollin down them rails, then Dave's advice would be the more prudent. If you add a String of Locomotives on the Route layer, they will ALWAYS be there, until you move them in driver, but when you restart they'll be right in that same starting position again....

Falcus

 

[pware]

If you say, create a route, decide you're happy with it, then go make a session, and while you're editing the session decide you REALLY hate that Brown Tree you put at Mile Post 55, you really need to save the session, back out, and re-open through the Route Editor, else wise risk damaging your session.

That has not been my experience. I have never had any problems editing the route through a session, so deleting that ugly brown tree (it it is located in a route layer) while in a session will remove that ugly brown tree from the route and it will disappear from ALL the sessions that are based on that route. However, if that tree was placed in a session layer then it would only appear in that particular session so its original placement and its removal will not affect the appearence of the route in any other session. Incidently, if it was in a session layer, then it will not appear on the screen if you backed out of the session and entered the route to attempt to remove it.

This topic, and the question of why Trainz has layers, has been the subject of many threads in these forums (for example see here) and will probably continue to do so. Like Davesnow, I was originally opposed to layers in Trainz (I was having enough problems with the concept of layers in paint programs) but I am now a total convert to their importance and use in both Trainz and paint software.

 

[Falcus]

I have had things occur. I've never had a total catastrophe, but I have lost Track, Scenery Items, consists, work in general. The worst thats happened to me is that I was in session layer, started working on what I think of as Route items (Scenery Splines, Objects, etc etc), saved, opened it back up the next day, and lost all 3-4 hours of what I was doing, sans the Terrain Changes (Looked kind of funny, except that I was too pissed about losing all the work Id done, though it was my own fault of course for not checking).

Anymore, whenever I'm working on a large Project Route of any sort, I delete all the sessions out of whatever version I'm working in, and only drive in it on a second save (So open it, save under a different name, then create sessions on that new save). Has pretty much eliminated all the head aches.

And, I'm by no means against having layers. I think its a really good idea actually. I just think that perhaps they could make it easier for a User to understand at a glance what layer they were working on, switch between layers reliably, and otherwise make the process a little more user friendly.

Falcus

 

[mikeaust]

I always make modifications in "edit route" and when I save don't choose to save session, because that will just be a default one.
Then I edit the session and check the area I have changed to make sure that nothing has been upset.
Unfortunately the old brain is a bit slow sometimes and I make session changes in the edit route. Then problems can get out of hand.
cheers,
Mike

 

[generalman]

I always use "Edit Session" if all I'm doing is working with the items on the session layer. However I agree with Dave; why they made layers to begin with is beyond me.
If I want to do something like add track or crossing signals, I use "Edit Route", that way whenever you make a session all of what you did is still there, and not just buried somewhere in one session. Although the only time this method messes up a session is if I completely get rid of an industry or section of track: something vital to the session.

 

[JCitron]

I do all route work on the route layer and only train-related stuff, unless I have to, on the session layer. It keeps it simple that way. When I save, I do not save a session each time either as that gets the layer mess really confusing... Will the real session please stand up? The only way to fix this issue is to go back into Content Manager and find out the latest ones and delete them because there is no creation time or date on the screens within Trainz TS12.

I can say though, that layers are really useful for placing objects, for example, on a loading dock, or building a multiple-level passenger terminal where we need to go in and put tracks and stuff under another station platform or platforms.

The problem then becomes mergin layers afterwards because I can guarantee that once the layers are merged, you'll find something that needs adjusting!

John

 

[pware]

I just think that perhaps they could make it easier for a User to understand at a glance what layer they were working on, switch between layers reliably, and otherwise make the process a little more user friendly.

At the very least, they should display the name of the currently active layer somewhere on the screen in Surveyor mode. I have made the mistake of planting an entire forest in a session layer instead of the route layer and while merging the two layers would solve that problem, it is sometimes the case that you have other assets scattered all over the layout in that session layer and you want to keep them there. The result is that I usually end up having to manually delete every tree or individually move them to the route layer. I just sigh and put it down to "experience" - until it happens again!

If I remember before I start planting a forest, I create a new route layer called "Forest" and lock every other layer first - but my memory does not always co-operate.

 

[llebrez]

I am forced to put my grain of salt on this: For what I read, almost everybody is right above. When you play, you play in a session, and there is where all your rules are. In my case I use extensive rules to control all the points, AI trains and all. And that has to be made in a session. Let's say you make your route, put all the locos, cars, trees, set all the AI's and everything. And you play the runs to make sure everything works as you want. Now you save it and create the first session so you can play again from the point you stopped. (Do it by "do not save session" ???). Next day you come back and play the session as you left. But soon, you realize that you would like to have a tree here, more paint there.. and you want to add a siding (more tracks). If I go to the route, and add all that in the session, it will not show in the route. So, you go to the session and add there. The changes are in the session but not the route. You can merge the session to the route. If you go to the route and make the changes there, some of them will show in the session and others (splines), will be messed up in the session, and when you exit the session will in turn mess the route! Bottom line is that I need to have a base that I can modify and is sort of indestructible, and start sessions from there. You could say, "the hell with the route, stay in the session only", but if in the session, I modify rules, they don't "transport" to the route and I have to be modify there too. By now everything is complex, cloudy and a pain there. Again I have said this many times in other posts: Why not give the option of when you save the session, to add the changes in the route? And why not have the option of transporting the rules in the session, back to the route? That could be options as to what you want to do at the moment of saving. All this are general happenings, some people never have the problem and some others do! and those that don't experience these problems will negate the ones that have it! When N3V created the mess of layers, they should have made very clear how it all works, and if somebody say it was clear, please understand that some of us are more clever than others, and sooner or later somebody will look at it and say what I said above: "complex, cloudy and a pain there".

 

[mikeaust]

What you are asking can be done. When you modify the route in "edit route' and you want to save it, you have the choice of saving a session. The normal is it goes to a "Default" and creates a new session which is what we don't want.(I am forever deleting unwanted session because the fingers start before the old brain gets in gear). You can type in the name of the session you wish the modifications to go to and when you start the changes should be there. I say should, because we all know the vagaries of Trainz.
I find in most cases though when I save and say don't save a session, the changes appear in the session when I go there. But not always, anyone have an idea why this might happen?
Another problem I often face is using portals. I set the portals up in the route layer and then place trains in there . When I create a session the trains are not included in the session and have to be setup again.
Cheers,
Mike