Problem with 2010 ... any advice?

[ttownsend]

Hi all. I hope this is the right place to post this. I have a problem with Trainz 2010 EE (digital version). I submitted a ticket to the help desk over a month ago, but after replying and asking me for some more information (which I submitted), I haven't heard another word from them. I guess they're a bit backed-up these days. So I'm hoping that perhaps folks in the forum may have some ideas for me to try to resolve my problem.

I'm trying to install and run Trainz 2010 EE on a new system. Although it takes awhile, it does successfully install and the initial diagnostics indicates that everything passes. (All green checkmarks.) However, when I try to run it, it appears to continously freeze at various points, every few seconds. For example, if I open a session and simply focus on a group of trees (blowing in the wind), you can see that about every 2-4 seconds they freeze for about 1 second, and then continue (even with no user interaction and with no trains running). As I attempt to navigate around, or open menus, the screen will freeze momentarily. Often, if I click on a menu item, it may take 5 seconds or more before the menu actually opens, during which time everything else is frozen. I've tried applying the patch up to version 41615, and also have tried applying the patch which takes it further to 42203, but all versions do exactly the same thing. I've tried using both Direct-X and OpenGL. While OpenGL is *slightly* smoother, it still exhibits the same problems. I've also experimented with different resolutions and settings, but the results are always the same. FYI, I have Trainz 2009 running on the same machine (with an extremely large layout), and it seems to work just fine, as do other graphics-intensive applications running on the same box. With 2010, I so far have only the routes that are included with the product. I haven't added anything yet. Oh ... and I've uninstalled, cleaned the registry and re-installed a few times ... still no difference. Have done the same with the graphics driver.

My system is as follows:
Intel 980X (6-Core 3.33Ghz) Extreme
Asus Rampage III Extreme Motherboard w/ 602 Bios (Latest)
12GB Triple-Channel Corsair "Dominator" DDR3 1600 Memory
(RAM has been tested by MemTest and is OK.)
XFX (ATI) Radeon 5970 dual-GPU Graphics Card with 2GB
Catalyst 10.6 Graphics Drivers (10.5 drivers exhibited the same problem.)
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit
160GB SSD Drive for OS.
2 x 2TB HDD for apps and data.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Despite the problem, 2010 looks great ... I can't wait to be able to actually use it. Thanks.

- Tom

 

[clam1952]

Should not have any problems with that setup.........
If 2009 is ok and you have patched 2010 up to date it would seem that it isn't an ATI graphics driver problem or shouldn't be.
Assume as you have 2009 working OK you have done the obvious such as installed as Admin etc. and run an EDR a couple of times?

So what's different between the two installations? Are they on the same drive?
Tried knocking off the Antivirus or stopping it from checking Trainz?
If you have Crossfire enabled tried disabling it?

 

[Ernest2d6]

same set up except I just have the one TB drive and i7 930 chip. Been struggling with this game as well for over a month now. Lag, lock, blue screen of death.:n:

But I have persisted, reading the forums here and at MS 7

64 bit is tricky with games and win7 64 more so.

This is what I found so far that works, meaning I haven't crash yet and still stressing the game trying to lock or crash it.



Win XP (sp3) Compatibility [right click desk top icon, compatibility tab.]
run this program as an administrator.

Hope this works for you.

Ern.

 

[ttownsend]

Should not have any problems with that setup.........
If 2009 is ok and you have patched 2010 up to date it would seem that it isn't an ATI graphics driver problem or shouldn't be.
Assume as you have 2009 working OK you have done the obvious such as installed as Admin etc. and run an EDR a couple of times?

So what's different between the two installations? Are they on the same drive?
Tried knocking off the Antivirus or stopping it from checking Trainz?
If you have Crossfire enabled tried disabling it?

2009 and 2010 are on the same drive, and in most of my tests, I have them set to the same display resolution. I've disabled A/V and have tried running in Windows XP compatibility mode and "Run as Administrator". I've tried full-screen and windowed mode and have turned down the settings to that absolute mininmum. Yet despite all that, it still freezes for about 1 second, every 3 or 4 seconds.

The only thing I'm not certain about is ... "run an EDR" .... well, you got me there. Not familiar with that term. As far as any other differences between the 2009 and 2010 installs, the only thing I can think of is that for 2009, I simply copied the entire directory over from my previous PC ... no need to actually re-install. For 2010, I ran the installation program. Doubt that has much to do with anything, but other than the versions, I can't think of any other differences.

 

[ttownsend]

same set up except I just have the one TB drive and i7 930 chip. Been struggling with this game as well for over a month now. Lag, lock, blue screen of death.:n:

But I have persisted, reading the forums here and at MS 7

64 bit is tricky with games and win7 64 more so.

This is what I found so far that works, meaning I haven't crash yet and still stressing the game trying to lock or crash it.



Win XP (sp3) Compatibility [right click desk top icon, compatibility tab.]
run this program as an administrator.

Hope this works for you.

Ern.

Thanks for the reply. As it turns out, I've already tried running in Compatiblity mode and as Administrator ... no difference whatsoever.

Perhaps this is a bit too wild of a guess, but it did occur to me that 2010 (if I'm not mistaken) has been designed to take advantage of multiple cores ... or at least more so than previous versions. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that. I seem to think I read it somewhere ... but I could be mistaken.) Anyway, I can't help but wonder if it's something about the 6 core setup that it doesn't like. (Ok guys ... stop laughing ... I know I'm grasping at straws here.)

Ernest, you mentioned you have the same setup (mostly) ... are you using the ATI drivers? If so, which version?

 

[Ernest2d6]

Same card same driver. And yes I did get 2010 to stop working, but it was a reportable bug and not a hard crash, this time.

I found the direct X had less lag and better water, but is unstable, Open GL is more stable but the water is awful and a tad more lag.

I have this black screen problem as well and have to ctrl-alt-del to bring up the task master to get the picture back, all the time I can still hear train chugging along.

I had plan on buying this game for my son and brother, but have decided not to because its too embarrassing at the moment to give as a gift.:n:

 

[Ernest2d6]

One more thing ttownsend What setting do you have AI in?

I also play EVE-Online and AI doesn't work for that game, well for me it doesn't, so I had it off. So I decided to see what happens if I move it to advance, so far so good and the game PO&N even talks giving milepost. anyway I'll try to stress this setting and see what happens

goodluck Ern.

 

[JCitron]

This stop-start cycling is indicative of something running in the background. You may not see it when you're at the desktop, or doing something that is less system intensive, but most likely it's still there.

I would run an anti-malware scan on your system because this is one of the signs of an infection from something such as a keylogger.

I suggest that you run Mark Russinivitch's Process Explorer, which is available from Microsoft.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb795533.aspx

This nifty utility is like the built-in Task Manager, but much better. You'll be able to see a process and sytem graph for specific applications that are running at the time, and look for the one that is cycling.

While on the Technet site, check out his spyware trackdown and killing method.

http://www.microsoft.com/emea/spotlight/sessionh.aspx?videoid=359

John

 

[ttownsend]

This stop-start cycling is indicative of something running in the background. You may not see it when you're at the desktop, or doing something that is less system intensive, but most likely it's still there.

I would run an anti-malware scan on your system because this is one of the signs of an infection from something such as a keylogger.

I suggest that you run Mark Russinivitch's Process Explorer, which is available from Microsoft.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb795533.aspx

This nifty utility is like the built-in Task Manager, but much better. You'll be able to see a process and sytem graph for specific applications that are running at the time, and look for the one that is cycling.

While on the Technet site, check out his spyware trackdown and killing method.

http://www.microsoft.com/emea/spotlight/sessionh.aspx?videoid=359

John

Thanks, John. I certainly check it out. I do already have Sysinternals Process Monitor installed, and will take a look at it. If it turns out to be something like a keylogger though, I'll be a bit surprized ... only because Trainz 2010 is the only app/game exhibiting this problem. Still, you could be right and it's certainly worth looking in to.

 

[JCitron]

Thanks, John. I certainly check it out. I do already have Sysinternals Process Monitor installed, and will take a look at it. If it turns out to be something like a keylogger though, I'll be a bit surprized ... only because Trainz 2010 is the only app/game exhibiting this problem. Still, you could be right and it's certainly worth looking in to.

I've been thinking more on this problem, and I've seen this before. Have you installed MS Office 2007 recently, enabled Windows Search? After I installed Office, my system performance dropped, and the hard drive was constantly chattering. Using SYSEXP and other tools, I found the services and stopped them.

The Windows Desktop Search, which seems to be enabled when MS Office 2007 is installed, will also cause this symptom. If it is running, disable the service, and by all means disable the Indexing, which will kick in every time you install assets, or move a file. To be honest, so what if it takes a few more seconds to find a file on the system! I'd rather have quiet hard drives, and better performance. Every time your system needs to access the disk, you lose performance because hard drives are the slowest animal in the system.

If anything, Process Explorer will help find the kulprit.

John

 

[ttownsend]

I've been thinking more on this problem, and I've seen this before. Have you installed MS Office 2007 recently, enabled Windows Search? After I installed Office, my system performance dropped, and the hard drive was constantly chattering. Using SYSEXP and other tools, I found the services and stopped them.

The Windows Desktop Search, which seems to be enabled when MS Office 2007 is installed, will also cause this symptom. If it is running, disable the service, and by all means disable the Indexing, which will kick in every time you install assets, or move a file. To be honest, so what if it takes a few more seconds to find a file on the system! I'd rather have quiet hard drives, and better performance. Every time your system needs to access the disk, you lose performance because hard drives are the slowest animal in the system.

If anything, Process Explorer will help find the kulprit.

John

Well, I disabled Windows Desktop search (Indexing was already disabled) and I also disabled as many background apps and tasks as I could without terminating Windows itself ... still no luck ... same problem. Process Monitor didn't reveal anything unusual either ... nothing that I could see was running that shouldn't be there. I also ran MalwareBytes and PC Doctor but they both report a clean system. (And yes, I'ved disabled them while running Trainz itself.)

Interestingly, I have a dual-monitor setup so I was able to run Task Manager in the other monitor. I was able to see that one of my six cores would spike just about the time of each freeze. When I looked at what process it was that was spiking ... Trainz32.exe. Arghhhh!. Also, the freezing doesn't start until I actually open up a route. Prior to that, launching Trainz 2010 and navigating around the main menus is extremely quick. Even loading the routes is pretty quick.

I suppose the good new is that I still have 2009 running just fine, and that's the one with the 'mega-route' on it that took me so long to build. I just wish I could take advantage of some of the newer features of 2010. Oh well.

 

[djt]

Hi all. I hope this is the right place to post this. I have a problem with Trainz 2010 EE (digital version). I submitted a ticket to the help desk over a month ago, but after replying and asking me for some more information (which I submitted), I haven't heard another word from them. I guess they're a bit backed-up these days. So I'm hoping that perhaps folks in the forum may have some ideas for me to try to resolve my problem.


My system is as follows:
Intel 980X (6-Core 3.33Ghz) Extreme
Asus Rampage III Extreme Motherboard w/ 602 Bios (Latest)
12GB Triple-Channel Corsair "Dominator" DDR3 1600 Memory
(RAM has been tested by MemTest and is OK.)
XFX (ATI) Radeon 5970 dual-GPU Graphics Card with 2GB
Catalyst 10.6 Graphics Drivers (10.5 drivers exhibited the same problem.)
Windows 7 Ultimate 64-Bit
160GB SSD Drive for OS.
2 x 2TB HDD for apps and data.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Despite the problem, 2010 looks great ... I can't wait to be able to actually use it. Thanks.

- Tom

Tom,

I’ve been running TS2010 on an i7 980X, Asus Rampage III Extreme, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 (specs below) for about a month now without any problems.
I’m now running a GTX 480 with this set up but I’ve also had my ATI 5870 in there also without any issues.

CPU dependent games like TS2010 will not make use of dual GPU video cards like the 5970, have you tried disabling “Catalyst AI” to see if that helps?

By the way the latest BIOS for the Asus Rampage III Extreme is 802 which works very well.



ASUS Rampage III Extreme (802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition w/Noctua NH-D14
Mushkin Enhanced Ridgeback 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-8-6-24-1N)
EVGA GeForce GTX 480 SuperClocked (258.69)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
PC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000W
LIAN LI PC-A70B


ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT
Mushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-7-6-18-1N)
Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 10.6)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows XP/SP2 64-bit Edition
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
SILVERSTONE 1500Watt SST
SILVERSTONE TJ09-B

 

[ttownsend]

Tom,

I’ve been running TS2010 on an i7 980X, Asus Rampage III Extreme, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 (specs below) for about a month now without any problems.
I’m now running a GTX 480 with this set up but I’ve also had my ATI 5870 in there also without any issues.

CPU dependent games like TS2010 will not make use of dual GPU video cards like the 5970, have you tried disabling “Catalyst AI” to see if that helps?

By the way the latest BIOS for the Asus Rampage III Extreme is 802 which works very well.



ASUS Rampage III Extreme (802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition w/Noctua NH-D14
Mushkin Enhanced Ridgeback 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-8-6-24-1N)
EVGA GeForce GTX 480 SuperClocked (258.69)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
PC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000W
LIAN LI PC-A70B


ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT
Mushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-7-6-18-1N)
Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 10.6)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows XP/SP2 64-bit Edition
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
SILVERSTONE 1500Watt SST
SILVERSTONE TJ09-B

Thanks for the info on the BIOS. I went to the Asus website but all I could find is the 704 BIOS for the Rampage III. That's still newer than what I had so I flashed it up ... unfortunately no difference as far as Trainz is concerned.

 

[Twodorgs]

Hi Tom,

If the freezing is only happening in Surveyor try this;

Open surveyor, select 'Options', 'Surveyor Settings' and move the auto save slider all the way to the right and it should read 'disabled'.

One version of Trainz when I first loaded it was continually freezing and I found auto save was set to a ridiculously low time. TS2010 is supposed to be set to a minimum of 15 minutes but some thing could be mucked up on your machine?

Lindsay

 

[djt]

Thanks for the info on the BIOS. I went to the Asus website but all I could find is the 704 BIOS for the Rampage III. That's still newer than what I had so I flashed it up ... unfortunately no difference as far as Trainz is concerned.

BIOS 802 can be found in this thread -

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250635&page=61

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/asus/mb/LG...-ASUS-0802.zip


Have you tried disabling Catalyst AI in the ATI CCC yet?

I had an ATI 4870x2 (a dual GPU video card) before the 5870 and whenever I had any problems with CPU dependent applications this would do the trick.

You have to understand that without a game profile for TS2010 in ATI’s driver a dual GPU video card like the 5970 can perform poorly when Catalyst AI is enabled.

My suggestion would be to get into in a real hardware forum and start some self education.







ASUS Rampage III Extreme (802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition w/Noctua NH-D14
Mushkin Enhanced Ridgeback 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-8-6-24-1N)
EVGA GeForce GTX 480 SuperClocked (258.69)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
PC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000W
LIAN LI PC-A70B


ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT
Mushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-7-6-18-1N)
Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 10.6)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows XP/SP2 64-bit Edition
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
SILVERSTONE 1500Watt SST
SILVERSTONE TJ09-B

 

[Ernest2d6]

This is the settings I'm using and so far I'm pleased how its working for me.

Win XP sp3 comp. mode / administrator

HD5970 settings
AA Ap. settings
AF Ap. settings
AI Advance
mipmap High Quality
Vert. Refresh Always on
AA Super-Sample AA
OpenGL Triple Buffering

But I will look into Asus site

 

[ttownsend]

BIOS 802 can be found in this thread -

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=250635&page=61

ftp://ftp.asus.com.tw/pub/asus/mb/LG...-ASUS-0802.zip


Have you tried disabling Catalyst AI in the ATI CCC yet?

Thanks for the link. I got 802 and flashed it. No problems (but it still didn't make any difference.) Also, regarding AI, I've had it disabled as part of trying to troubleshoot this problem. I'm going to try reinstalling (yet again) to see if that makes any difference.

 

[djt]

This is the settings I'm using and so far I'm pleased how its working for me.

Win XP sp3 comp. mode / administrator

HD5970 settings
AA Ap. settings
AF Ap. settings
AI Advance
mipmap High Quality
Vert. Refresh Always on
AA Super-Sample AA
OpenGL Triple Buffering

But I will look into Asus site

What are the rest of your specs?

With 2GB of RAM on the 5970 alone a 32-bit OS is just going to cripple performance.





ASUS Rampage III Extreme (802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition w/Noctua NH-D14
Mushkin Enhanced Ridgeback 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-8-6-24-1N)
EVGA GeForce GTX 480 SuperClocked (258.69)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
PC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000W
LIAN LI PC-A70B


ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT
Mushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-7-6-18-1N)
Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 10.6)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows XP/SP2 64-bit Edition
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
SILVERSTONE 1500Watt SST
SILVERSTONE TJ09-B

 

[Ernest2d6]

No I have Win7 64 bit
12 GB Ram
i7 930
TB HD
ATI HD 5970

When I play EVE I have to turn off the AI or I crash
When I play Trainz I have to Turn the AI on and play in XP mode or I'll crash.

So....its the game.:n:

 

[djt]

No I have Win7 64 bit
12 GB Ram
i7 930
TB HD
ATI HD 5970

When I play EVE I have to turn off the AI or I crash
When I play Trainz I have to Turn the AI on and play in XP mode or I'll crash.

So....its the game.:n:

I don’t think it’s the game, its ATI’s drivers and lack of a game profiles.

Neither my GTX 480 nor my 5870 exhibit any of the issues you’ve mentioned with TS2010. As I’ve said before a dual GPU video card with a CPU dependent game like TS2010 is useless.

You have to take in consideration that the 5970 is just two down-clocked 5870 GPU’s put together so the performance with games that don’t take advantage of the GPU it is out performed by a single 5870.




ASUS Rampage III Extreme (802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition w/Noctua NH-D14
Mushkin Enhanced Ridgeback 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-8-6-24-1N)
EVGA GeForce GTX 480 SuperClocked (258.69)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows 7 Ultimate 64
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
PC Power & Cooling T1KWSR 1000W
LIAN LI PC-A70B


ASUS Rampage II Extreme (1802 BIOS)
Intel Core i7-975 Extreme Edition w/Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT
Mushkin Redline Ascent 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) (6-7-6-18-1N)
Asus/ATI 5870 (Catalyst 10.6)
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty
WD VelociRaptor 150GB – Windows XP/SP2 64-bit Edition
WD VelociRaptor 300GB – Games/Programs
SILVERSTONE 1500Watt SST
SILVERSTONE TJ09-B