Poorly Painted Assets

[boleyd]

Treading on thin ice (egos):

I am seeing more and more new assets, usually done with Sketchup, that look very unreal. They have are using standard textures. No weathering, shadows, or other shading. Just plain surfaces that are mechanically correct but without character. A few contributors take the time to add the little touches that really make their stuff stand out. Obviously I can't show examples or I would be banned for instigating a riot.

 

[nathanmallard]

Oh, well, you're perfectly qualified to say that, because you have made loads of well textured assets...Oh, hang on a minute, no you haven't! Before you go tearing in to other people's creations, have a go yourself. You might get a shock, even a simple object like the trams I have done required a lot of effort.

 

[nfitzsimmons]

I can see his point to a certain extent, but I'm still grateful to the people who have provided them. My solution is to clone them, and add weathering and other minor mods myself. On the other hand I've begun passing up Sketch-Up items that are 25 or 30 MB in size regardless of how nice they look.

 

[boleyd]

Since when do criticisms only have to come from peers???

The people who use, and value, good asset creation should be allowed to address what they feel is "not so good". The usual responses have surfaced and they, as usual, tout the effort that it takes to make an asset. There is no dispute that it takes talent and effort to make any reasonable asset. However, I see a portion of that time wasted when the asset is bland and without character. I have tried making stuff. Usually when I get the shape correct I do not have the talent (artists eye) to make it look as real as it should. I could make a nice house with standard clapboard texture and mildly textured wood to trim the windows. Then roof it with stock shingles. However, it would not look real.

There are some very talented artists displaying for trainz. I search for their creations and enjoy placing them on routes. Along with real ground textures and excellent vegetation, these assets are really an "asset" for any route.

 

[pdkoester]

 

[klambert]

No wounder your on my ignore list.
I could kick myself for reading your garbage.
It won't happen again.

That was unnecessarily harsh, I don't think you need to bring your personal issues with the OP onto a general forum discussion, that sort of thing should be saved for PM or emails.

I actually agree with the OP, I've made some stuff myself and I will admit some of my earlier work was a bit lifeless, but I think the true key is to recognize if the content you've created is a bit lifeless and to build and learn from it. Rather than churning out the same rubbish day in day out, it's far better to build and expand rather than mass producing stuff. With every piece of content I produce I try to learn from the mistakes of my previous one. Especially when it comes to creating trains. So hopefully I've got to the stage now where the content has my own personal touches rather than looking bland.

 

[ryanstrains]

Guys this is unacceptable behavior to lash out at other members, we are a community not enemies.

 

[amigacooke]

It's the same deal it's always been. If you don't like the asset, don't use it.

Somebody else however may be grateful for what you've turned your nose up at.

 

[Falcus]

It's the same deal it's always been. If you don't like the asset, don't use it.

Somebody else however....

What Amiga said exactly. There are tons of assets I come accross that I decide not to use for a variety of reasons, and one of those reasons is that it doesn't fit the "Quality" I'm looking for. I've had the experience of finding an asset that is exactly what I want, but won't use it because the texture is so bad.

But so what? I DO use lower quality stuff in background. One of the things about "lower quality" textures I will point out, is that they tend to use less system resources because they're lower resolution..... These will often make great distance items.

This all said, something else I'll point out, is that being anyone that "Creates" in surveyor (IE Plinks down assets, even if you're not Creating "World Route 2.0" for release), brings to it a certain perspective. Everyone has certain ideas in their head about how they feel the area they're working on should appear, or "feel' when they're creating it and there-by choose the assets that appeal to them and how they feel the scene should feel when they're done. Some people are entirely happy with bright shiny clean clapboard and stock shingles for the feel of the scene they're going for (Maybe Farmer John lives there with his newlywed wife and they just had the house built? Which is why it looks so new and clean? Maybe Farmer John has Lived there for 25 Years, but Paints it every spring like clock work and repairs even the smallest of Wind Damage immediately because hes anal about his houses appearance?). Others feel the world is a dirty grungy place and should look it when your driving your train through a simulator of it..... All boils down to perspective.....

Falcus

 

[steamboateng]

Gentlemen, I agree with boleyed on this issue. But certainly concede noob lack of experience as a legitimate excuse.
Of course one always has the choice on which assets they download (which may explain my rather lean asset database).
However there are some creators who stamp out asset after asset, with a cartoony cookie cutter approach to textures. Some simply don't want to dive into the finer details or take the time, to learn or improve their creations. On the other hand I'm sure 'gifted' creators were made, not born.
Now, before someone jumps on their narrow minded "I'm a content creator" soapbox, allow me to assure you I, as well as many others who have been around these Forums for MANY YEARS, are well aware of the time and patience involved in content creation. I've been working with Blender for years, so I'm not ignorant of the many confusing issues Trainz and Blender can throw at you.
Content creation, particularly textures, which can make or break an asset, is a subject which should be approached with a good view of the forest...............don't let the trees get in the way.
My 2 centz...........

Regards to all and keep on Trainzin'

 

[dragonharh]

I said it ones before "I'm just a modeler not a skinner" Some of us my self included are skilled in one this but not in others, its unfair to judge others on there lack skill. anywho both modeling and textures take days or even weeks to do "Roume wasn't built in a day" if you don't like it don;t download it simple as that.

 

[JCitron]

Properly texturing a model takes time, lots of time, before the model looks good. The problem is people spend hours/days/months plugging away at the technical side of the model, but when it comes time to texturing, they rush it along just to get it done. It reminds me of the days when I'd build those little plastic kits. Everything was great until I got to the final stages. By the time I got to that point, I couldn't wait until I got the bloody thing finished!

As Steamboateng pointed out, there are little things that take into consideration in Blender and it's interface with Trainz, in addition to the oddities and tweaks that each program needs to make textures, and models interact properly in the environment. Learning this stuff takes time and lots of experimentation to get it right.

I'm guilty of only one decent model and a bunch of junk, so I shouldn't squawk too loudly, but I agree with Dick. There's been a lot of Noob stuff up there lately. I commend the content creators for trying, but they should try to move beyond the basic skinning, and this is where the extra time and work comes in.

John

 

[amigacooke]

While I appreciate that it is good to hone your talents to produce top quality product, other than those producing payware, I can't really imagine why anyone would bother other than for their own use. The demands, technical and quality, are becoming greater and greater and it appears to me the appreciation and gratitude becomes less and less.

Once upon a time if an item was created, it would be put on the DLS in case it might be of use to others. Now, well why bother.

 

[johnwhelan]

Treading on thin ice (egos):

I am seeing more and more new assets, usually done with Sketchup, that look very unreal. They have are using standard textures. No weathering, shadows, or other shading. Just plain surfaces that are mechanically correct but without character. A few contributors take the time to add the little touches that really make their stuff stand out. Obviously I can't show examples or I would be banned for instigating a riot.

Creating for Trainz requires two very different skills, the first is modelling, the second is textures. It's quite rare you get someone who is highly skilled in both. What you do have is a lot of people learning. My suggestion is in future you stick to payware then as a paying customer you may complain. Even then I've seen some really poor quality payware. It takes a lot of time to create content, sometimes years for one model, many items are supplied free of charge in Trainz which is not the case for some sims.

Basically posts such as this are not helpful in encouraging people to create content and release it and without the free content Trainz wouldn't exist. Ever thought about how much content would come with TS12 if N3V only supplied content made by N3V?

Cheerio John

 

[Azervich]

I think the OP is talking about block texturing when an asset will have 20, 30, or even 50 simple textures rather than using 1 or 2 maps and 2 or 3 small textures.

Cheers.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Morning All

To start with, there is no issue with constructive feedback on asset creation, be it to a specific creator, or the community in general (as in this case). If we took the approach of not allowing constructive feedback, well, we wouldn't see any improvement.

If you aren't prepared to take the feedback on, then that is fair enough. The OP isn't forcing people to change their ways, their making a constructive comment on the textures on many available assets that are modeled well, but could do with better textures.

Now, as to textures. You do need to look carefully at scenery assets (and any asset really). An object with simple 'block' textures may have a great many textures which can effect performance a great deal more than an asset with one or two larger textures. There's an exception where you may want to tile the texture, but this should really be avoided unless you are working with a very large object. As always, it is up to the creator's own judgement on how they create their content, but there are ideas behind things like textures that should be looked at and then a decision made. Also keep in mind that Trainz does support mip-mapping, and as such will reduce the size of the textures as you move away. This means that you don't need to use objects with lower res textures further away. It will help a little with loading the asset in some cases, but if the asset can be seen up close (elsewhere in the scene/map, or even from a good screenshot vantage point), then it's not a bad thing to have a well made high res object further off, as it won't be high res when viewed from a distance.

The same applies to using object with LOD as well

Once you have one or two large texture maps on the object, you can then 'paint' the textures onto it relatively easily. At a minimum, you can paste the existing 'block' textures onto it as-is, but you can then also easily layer multiple images onto each other, creating some nice effects (even if it's just to cut 'in' a beam, or a different wood plank, or what have you). A reskinner could then easily add hand drawn shading onto the object.

The one thing that the Trainz community needs to keep in mind is that there is only so much that a game engine can achieve. The content still needs to be built to a modern spec for it to look good. True, TANE will have full world shadows, but ambient shading on objects is still essential (most game engines require this to some degree), as is a normals map, specular map, and textures that have some detail to them.

Regards

 

[simulatortrain]

I agree with the OP. So, I often choose to make my own stuff instead of using what's out there.

 

[davesnow]

One thing. I'm not a master by any means, but I've seen so many people use the same color for all sides of an object. You can create a lot nicer asset by using different colors for different sides of it. A box may look like it's colored the same on all four sides, but there's always a shadow. You can create a shadow effect by varying the shades. Same with round or circular objects.

And DON'T use solid complete BLACK or WHITE. Use dark grey and light grey. And stay away from very saturated, flourescent colors.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[johnwhelan]

I think the OP is talking about block texturing when an asset will have 20, 30, or even 50 simple textures rather than using 1 or 2 maps and 2 or 3 small textures.

Cheers.

and in that case I'm in complete agreement with him and there are issues with many Sketchup assets, but that's not what I read in his post.

Cheerio John

 

[boleyd]

Sketchup triggered my "comment". A quite nice house but rather lifeless was the trigger. It was a shame since maybe another hour could have significantly extended its visual appeal. I agree that some assets work well in a background to preserve FPS. Please note that I did not condemn the people who shun complex texturing. I did try to point out that the e model would be much more popular should it be well textured and shaded. The best feature of trainz is that it really can be made to look almost as real as nature. There was a thread not too long ago that revealed some tips on placing assets to achieve quite nice looking railways.

I use a flight simulator that employs DX11 shading. It is remarkable how lifelike buildings look at a small rural airport. Some staining along the ground and under the eaves. As was pointed out nothing uses saturated colors and grays replace super bright whites. I believe that we shall see similar capabilities in TANE.