Please make DLS routes easier to download

[airtime]

To the crew at N3V,

I have found that downloading entire routes from the DLS can be very time consuming and very off putting too, especially if you don't have Trainz installed on your internet computer, and you have to download over 100 items individually...

I understand you need individual dependencies for items of rolling stock, as more than one item can be used, for example a hose pipe or a coupler, but as for routes, wouldn't it be easier to put the entire route and it's dependencies into one CDP, or the route in one CDP, and the Dependencies in another CDP...

I know this will make it easier for those who don't have Trainz on an internet computer, to get the most out of the DLS, and I'm sure in the long run, you may save space on the DLS for new items...

The above is just a thought, as I believe it could take me up to 3 days just to download one route, with individual items, with a First Class ticket, which can put internet costs for some at a higher price...

Joe Airtime

 

[zatovisualworks]

Hi Joe,

You know this is an old matter debated thoroughly over here and and the old forum too. And it's all related to the very core building-up of Trainz.

• Routes assets are just reminders of terrain features, listing of dependant assets used, coordinate data, regionalizing and little more.
• Other train games (MSTS) use other systems with larger files including everything, but it makes things also hard to download.
• Have you thought that what you are proposing would not be possible if Third Party Assets were used? Yes, yes, maybe you're answering me that you never use layouts containing assets outside the DLS... but many many of us do and are enjoying wonderful assets out there.

Just a sample out of the many...

The wonderful route by Tonny [Herlev]... Modern Europe

http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS_viewasset.php?AssetID=186466

with many many many assets outside the DLS. Almost fifty-fifty balanced.

• Of course, at least it could be done with the ones on the DLS, I agree, but on the other hand, after having spent years on trainzing you'll find yourself having Gbs of contents already installed; so what would be the purpose of download them again? It would consume loads of bandwidth, more expenses for you and for the Company.
• As for rolling stock deps, the chance of pack uploading and download still exists, even though it splits its contents in different .cdps despite your upload is a multiple one. I admit some creators are forgetting about packs but many others still keep packing their several .cdps into one if they are interrelated.

What you are proposing is difficult to be implemented, Joe, IMO.

Have a nice weekend,

The seeing-it-difficult side of Alberte :wave:

 

[BRClass66]

Hi,
i thought about this before,when i was saving all items i had downloaded and installed into my game.
If it had no errors all good if it had errors i'd delete them.

So later i did'nt have to save the whole of my Local file as a backup, I could just make a CDP of my downloads that worked in the game.

now when/if i have to reinstall the game ,i only have to install and commit my CDP with all my downloads that work,very time saving,

so why can't a route/trains etc. have all or most of there dependencies in 1 CDP.

Just a thought.

Brad

 

[clam1952]

Hi,
i thought about this before,when i was saving all items i had downloaded and installed into my game.
If it had no errors all good if it had errors i'd delete them.

So later i did'nt have to save the whole of my Local file as a backup, I could just make a CDP of my downloads that worked in the game.

now when/if i have to reinstall the game ,i only have to install and commit my CDP with all my downloads that work,very time saving,

so why can't a route/trains etc. have all or most of there dependencies in 1 CDP.

Just a thought.

Brad

Not really practical because there is a download limit on the free servers, if the cdp's are larger, which they will be, then you are not going to be able to download them. Those without FCT's are having enough problems downloading as it is without making it impossible for them to download routes.

Also of course many of us will already have many of the dependencies so downloading them again is adding to the total download, remembering that some have a cap on how much they can download.

 

[airtime]

Thank you Alberte for your post, and I do understand, and agree with what you say about some content being outside the DLS, but I look at some routes on the DLS, and I see over a hundred dependencies and think to myself, forget that, I'll be there all week...

Now, there maybe the odd one out there, maybe a newbie, who will go ahead and spend between 3 to 5 days downloading each dependencie, now if most Trainzers do this, would this be one of the causes of the DLS being slow, as there will be those who are determined to get each and every dependencie, and if the DLS times out, and they didn't know what they downloaded last, they may have to start all over again from the top, thus causing the DLS to be slower again...

I went on the DLS to download one of Angelah's routes, and I saw how many dependencies it had, and instantly thought, forget this, I then went trawling on the net, and Thank you to Angelah, she had a website with the entire CDP on, the CDP took 3 minutes to download, I got the entire route, along with items I never had, and the route looked superb and works fantastically, the only bit was Reading Station wasn't complete, but I didn't care about that, the rest of the route was superb, and I throughly love the route, to me 3 minutes downloading is a lot faster than 5 days...

As I said above Alberte, I do know where you are coming from, but there must be an easier solution to downloading routes from the DLS without trawling through a 100+ dependencies.

Once again, Thank you Alberte for your reply, it's good to have you on this forum, and I do love your quirky quotes at the bottom, you are a saucy flirt...

Joe Airtime

 

[zatovisualworks]

Once again, Thank you Alberte for your reply, it's good to have you on this forum, and I do love your quirky quotes at the bottom, you are a saucy flirt...

Thank you for your kind words, Joe, you know we old-timers left over the place appreciate it a lot... to be able to become new-timers again and also learn from new points of view.

The rusty-oldness-turning-polished-brand-new side of Alberte :wave:

 

[StorkNest]

The problem with putting dependencies with a route is actually one of the Route Builder needing permission from other creators to pack their assets with the route.
If the route builder does not get permission, then all they can offer is the route.
If you have a lot of items on the route, that is a lot of permissions needed.
Then consideration for creators gone comes in. If someone leaves for whatever reason and has no license out allowing use of content this way, that creator's assets cannot be included.
And then you could run into the problem of advertising for third party sites. Creators that have them sometimes will not want certain assets of theirs included because having people look for the item leads them to their websites that is partly their goal.
Not a simple thing getting assets included with routes. Even Builtin content has restrictions, if it is not specifically Auran Builtin content you need permission for reskins so would you not need permission for use on a route?

All the rights to watch out for have made me dizzy. I will admit I even feel so overwhelmed (how do you get overwhelmed when you can never be just plain whelmed?) I even forget what permission are on content with an Auran KUID, I had to submit a helpdesk ticket incuding a request for clairification on that.

 

[zatovisualworks]

Yes, dear Storkie, that's it. But...

According to the current DLS tems and conditions, N3VRF41L wouldn't need to get any permission to automate gathering a route on the DLs and its deps on the DLS too into a sole .cdp.

But most of us typing on this thread by Joe regard this as complicated -even technically-, unnecessary and bandwidth wasting regardless what the Company itself thinks about it.

Have a happy Sunday,

The no terms and conditions side of Alberte :wave:

 

[StorkNest]

Alberte,
True except where dependencies come from a third party site.

Actually looking back at the first post, it seems part of the issue is how to download when using 2 computers.
One for Trainz.
One for downloading.
I use 1 computer for both. I can not figure out why someone would use two in this fashion. Not only does it make downloading from DLS ahrder, it also makes downloading from third party sites harder too. Do we now ask those other websites like yours to make the same changes?

Eric, who refuses to mimic Alberte's unique signatures because they make him Alberte.

 

[WindWalkr]

I have found that downloading entire routes from the DLS can be very time consuming and very off putting too, especially if you don't have Trainz installed on your internet computer, and you have to download over 100 items individually...

The simple answer here is that you're making it very hard for yourself by not having an internet connection on your Trainz PC.

It's not particularly difficult or expensive to share internet connections between PCs these days, so while we understand that it's not an option for everyone, we feel that the majority of users are best served having direct online access. For users with an internet connection, your request has a one-click solution.

This process is more difficult if you don't have a direct internet connection, and MUCH more difficult if you don't have an internet connection at all.

kind regards,

chris

 

[SuperFudd]

I avoid all this hub-bub by using only (almost) built in content in my layouts. The rare exception would not be missed. For instance the Sunol Station on my current creation is not built in but inside it is a smaller building that is built in.

 

[paulzmay]

The other alternative is to install Trainz on both machines, but ONLY use the one connecterrd to the internet for downloading. When you have a route and all dependencies installed, you can then save them as a single .cdp, and then move them across on a flash drive or similar.

Personally I find that the current situation is better for downloading routes, as I usually find I have over half of the required assets for any new route already.

Paul

 

[HiBaller]

This is the problem we ran in to when we put the DHR up for public downloading. We were immediately asked if we intended to put it on the DLS. If we had, which none of us really wanted to, it would have been in the 900 to 1,200Mb range and certainly outside the capabilities of a non-FCT member. Virtually ALL the content was specially made for the DHR; almost none was built-in or DLS available.

We could have put just the route itself on the DLS, but then we'd have to offer the content outside the DLS anyway due to size constraints. It's a no-win situation: bulk up CDPs and keep non-FCT users out, or pare down CDPs and download lots of them.

EDIT: As Chris says, it is easy to network several computers so that they all share an Internet connection. Currently, I have five sharing a router and DSL modem. Only three of the computers have Trainz installed on them, the other two are used for browsing and programming.

Bill

 

[Deano5]

3 to 5 day's for one route with a FCT!
Boy oh boy, you really are making life difficult for yourself. I complain if it takes more than 3 minutes:hehe: Connect with those lan ports if you don't have any wireless option on your Trainz rig.

 

[cascaderailroad]

If it takes more than 10 minutes to download the largest routes, like:GFisher "The Loops" you are downloading at a slow speed of @ 3.75Kbs, without your FTC being activated ... A FCT should have a download whopping speed of @ 375Kbs.
KaChunk, KaChunk, KaChunk, Mooooooo !

 

[airtime]

The other alternative is to install Trainz on both machines, but ONLY use the one connecterrd to the internet for downloading. When you have a route and all dependencies installed, you can then save them as a single .cdp, and then move them across on a flash drive or similar.

Personally I find that the current situation is better for downloading routes, as I usually find I have over half of the required assets for any new route already.

Paul

I believe Paul, this may be the best option for me, the main reason I didn't put Trainz on the same computer as the Internet, was in-case a virus slipped through and corrupted my trainz installation, thus losing all my newly added content, I do have Malware Bytes and Avast on my system, but you still get that niggle, is your pc really safe.

With the method above, this will save me a lot of time, especially with those huge routes with a hundred plus assets...

I just want to say a massive thank you, to all who posted in trying to help, including Chris Windwalker, HiBaller, StorkNest and Cascaderailroad to name but a few, it's always very much appreciated with the help you always give and offer.

Many Thanks

Joe Airtime

 

[ct_krogen]

I believe Paul, this may be the best option for me, the main reason I didn't put Trainz on the same computer as the Internet, was in-case a virus slipped through and corrupted my trainz installation, thus losing all my newly added content, I do have Malware Bytes and Avast on my system, but you still get that niggle, is your pc really safe.


well back up back back up... all ways haeva back up of your trainz dir, or back up of you cdp's. i have my trainz ona computer that hooked to the net...
allways keep your virus & firewall up to date..