place city names in their geographical position
- Thread starter belgian46
- Start date
This info gives me another angle, how to start building in combination with the Trig station.Hello Malc,
Thanks for the information
. I downloaded martinvk's Lat-Long reader and I'm checking both tools.I have no problem using both tools
Best regards
Kurt :wave:
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Hello,
As I only have the Trainz versions 2009 and 2010, which both have very limited manuals, I went for the search of the Trainz 2006 manual.
I found a manual in Dutch and English.
In the manual I found an option to have the geographical position of a point within your route
Here is the text in English
World Origin Management Tools
The World Origin is a marker that you place anywhere on your route to set the
latitude, longitude and altitude of the Origin Marker.
You can then place Trig Stations (found in the Objects Menu) anywhere on
your route to identify the exact lat/long and altitude of the Trig Station.
Zoom in close to a Trig Station and rotate to see the digital readout of lat and long.
Tip: Use the '?' icon to name the Trig Station using the format "xx
xxx.xxx N/S xxx xx.xxx W/E" and then use Ctrl F to bring up a list of all
named objects. Click on the lat/long you are looking for from the list
and you effectively have an unlimited number of bookmarks.
The placing of a World Origin marker adjusts the sun position (the higher the
latitude, the lower the sun position). We don't currently model seasons, so the
sun position is approximated for a typical 12-hour length daylight cycle.
Add/Move World Origin
To add a World Origin and then move it if you wish, Click LMB on
Add/Move World Origin (O) and then Click LMB anywhere on your
world to add the World Origin or Click LMB+H to move it around. Having
added the World Origin, the next two commands below will become available
to you as well
Find World Origin
To find the World Origin in your world, Click on Find World Origin (F)
and the view will be centered on the World Origin.
Edit World Origin
To edit the properties of the World Origin, Click LMB on Edit World
Origin (E) and you can set up the latitude (setting it north or south of the
equator), longitude (setting it East or West of the Greenwich Mean Time line),
and altitude.
Best regards
Kurt :wave:
Hello All,
I have to add some extra info related to the info I have given ( see above ).
The world coordinate system in Trainz is flat, with cartesian x and y coordinates in metres, applied to baseboards.
So I did a test within my route.
I took a tram stopplace in my route - Knokke station ( exact geographic position = 51 20 31 N - 003 16 52 E. When placing a trig station I got the position 51 20 90 N - 003 15 57 E.
In my route, I searched where a trig station gave me the
position 51 20 31 N - 003 16 52 E . It was more than 2 km further.
Best regards
Kurt :wave:
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Hi Kurt.
I’ve just checked my Birdbath lat/long at my tunnel entrance and measured the distance to the lighthouse at the end of my harbour breakwater. The distance is exactly 902 metres using a Trainz Ruler, which matches the distance shown on the Google Earth Path tool measurement. The bearing looks OK although I cannot exactly measure it (I’ve never found a hand bearing compass!)
Can you remember which Working Scale you set for the Route when you created it? It should be Real Scale. You can check by pulling out a ruler from the Tools flyout. The scale will be displayed in brackets next to the numeric value.
Is your Birdbath correctly positioned on your baseboard at your chosen geographical feature?
Have you edited the Birdbath coordinates to the correct lat/long? It will need to be amended from the default geographical location lat/long set by Trainz when you set up the new route.
Had you already built parts of your route prior to setting up the World Origin? If so, it’s possible that the rotation may not be exactly right, so the trig stations may appear to be in the wrong positions. (Guess how I know this!)
You only need to be a few degrees out for this problem to be evident. It will also be magnified the further away from the Birdbath you place a trig station.
Casper
I’ve just checked my Birdbath lat/long at my tunnel entrance and measured the distance to the lighthouse at the end of my harbour breakwater. The distance is exactly 902 metres using a Trainz Ruler, which matches the distance shown on the Google Earth Path tool measurement. The bearing looks OK although I cannot exactly measure it (I’ve never found a hand bearing compass!)
Can you remember which Working Scale you set for the Route when you created it? It should be Real Scale. You can check by pulling out a ruler from the Tools flyout. The scale will be displayed in brackets next to the numeric value.
Is your Birdbath correctly positioned on your baseboard at your chosen geographical feature?
Have you edited the Birdbath coordinates to the correct lat/long? It will need to be amended from the default geographical location lat/long set by Trainz when you set up the new route.
Had you already built parts of your route prior to setting up the World Origin? If so, it’s possible that the rotation may not be exactly right, so the trig stations may appear to be in the wrong positions. (Guess how I know this!)
You only need to be a few degrees out for this problem to be evident. It will also be magnified the further away from the Birdbath you place a trig station.
Casper
As I have explained to Kurt by mail, the Trainz World Origin object and the sun & moon feature, where Trig Station and Lat/Long Reader are based upon, should not be used for navigational or surveying purposes. The re-projection, carried out by Trainz, is only a rough approximation of a proper geodetic projection and will yield significant error, both static and variable. The variable error increases with distance to World Origin and will also be different in longitudinal and latitudinal direction.
Hello Roland,
Thank you for your information.
I already have taken the personal decision not to use a trig station anymore.Best regards
Kurt :wave:
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Hello Casper,
Here are my answers to your questions
I used real scale. Changed world origin from the beginning ( Oostende ( geo settings ). and afterwards started the building.
Distance Oostende- Knokke approx 30 km,
Distance Oostende - De Panne approx 35 km
My example with Knokke station and Roland's very clear personal email, made it clear to me to stop using a trig station or Martinsvk lat-long reader.
But this is a personal decision.
Best regards
Kurt :wave:
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Hi geophil.
I agree that some elements of the World Origin don’t work perfectly, the most glaring example being the altitude. I had to rebuild a significant part of my route because of a 40 metre error where I had expected the land height tool to work in conjunction with the World Origin height setting. It doesn’t, or if it does I’ve yet to find a way of doing it.
The sun elevation does work quite well. Routes with the WO set close to the equator give a much brighter look to the landscape and models during daylight hours than in Routes built closer to the poles. My manual clearly states, “..the higher the latitude, the lower the sun position”. This can be tested and clearly proven by moving the clock and looking at the arc described by the sun across the sky after varying the latitude values. The position of the sun also greatly impacts the lighting of the models.
The only “error” I have found with daylight is the duration. This does not vary according to latitude or time of year. To quote the manual again it is,
“.. approximated for a typical 12 hour length daylight cycle”.
I wasn’t aware that there is a Moon feature. I only know of optional static moon objects which remain wherever they are placed in the Route. They have no interaction with surveyor tools or any impact on the lighting.
I have to take issue with you over the accuracy of the trig stations.
I did have a problem with using them initially. My errors increased the further away from the birdbath they were placed. However, I soon discovered that this was because I had rotated my Route by several degrees in order to get my tunnels at either end of the open air station to look right. I was led by the constraints of the tunnel entrances only allowing the rotation to be set at 45 degree jumps.
However, in other routes the lat/long works seems to work wonderfully well for me.
I’ve just done another test prior to posting this to double check the accuracy. I’ve taken the coordinates from Google Earth for all of the five locations shown in my image in post #20 and applied them to a blank baseboard. I then used the Trainz ruler to measure the distances and compared them with the GE path measuring tool. They all come out spot on.
I’d be interested to hear other views and experiences.
@belgian46
Hi Kurt.
I’ve just seen your reply. Good luck with the Route building!
Cheers
Casper
@belgian46
Hi Kurt.
I’ve just seen your reply. Good luck with the Route building!
Cheers
Casper
Hello Casper,
Thank you. Much appreciated
Until next ...
Best regards
Kurt :wave: