Older PC - What version of Trainz to but?

[winjmoore]

I'm not sure why you are recommending TRS2006 rather than TS2010. With the same routes and assets in native mode TS2010 should give better frame rates rather than the more demanding TRS2006.

Cheerio John

Nope the engine of the game was revamped since 2006. The drain on resources is more in 2010. 2010 is a more sluggish game... When you do things. Not a problem on a good computer.
Admiotaddly a few 06 things run in native mode but mostly they run in compablity mode.
Don't they!!
Because they were made for 06 and 06 items run in comparability mode mostly. So you saying that 10 is faster cause it will run everything in native mode is a dream not reality. (Mores the pity ;-))
Further native mode is mostly better apperance but with a 7050 card that is not an option
Further you say 2006 is more demanding than 2010 ??? ??? er check out the system requirements of both games and explain where you are getting your info from?

 

[Dermmy]

Hmmm all of my routes were built originally in TRS04, but I used to run them in TRS06 because the 06 graphics engine was slightly better than the 04 engine.

I can say with absolute certainty that on the same machine they all run significantly better in TS2010 SP3 Compatibility Mode than they ever did in 06...

Andy

 

[JimDep]

I'm running 2010 on a 3.0 P4, 4GB RAM, Geforce 9500GT an it does fine. It can get pretty jerky when there are lots of individual parts to display, but usually works well enough to be enjoyable. Speaking from experience, if you buy 2010, get the disc based version and avoid the downloadable digital versions.

This is also what worries me. That's twice the memory my machine has.
I hear that 2010 utilizes dual core processors better. That's great, but my machine does not support a dual core processor.

Over the last year or more, for TS 2010 results on my machine, I hear the whole spectrum, from "will work better than 06", to " totally unusable". On a low fixed income, I don't have money to waste.

BTW, Merry Christmas, everyone!

 

[johnwhelan]

This is also what worries me. That's twice the memory my machine has.
I hear that 2010 utilizes dual core processors better. That's great, but my machine does not support a dual core processor.

Over the last year or more, for TS 2010 results on my machine, I hear the whole spectrum, from "will work better than 06", to " totally unusable". On a low fixed income, I don't have money to waste.

BTW, Merry Christmas, everyone!

$10 on Amazon if you live in the US.

http://www.amazon.com/Trainz-Simula...HB7S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1293316677&sr=8-3

At $10 try it and see. It is direct from Amazon so there shouldn't be any problems with serial numbers etc.

You have at least two computer processors in your computer. The first is the single core cpu, the second are commonly called pipelines on the GPU. Each is much simpler than an Intel P4 but is specialized to render graphics.

Have a quick read here.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_card

Note that the GPU typically is much more powerful than the cpu.

TRS2004, TRS2006 actually uses the cpu to do a lot of the work leaving the GPU mostly idle. TS2010 actually taps into the GPU power in a much more efficient manner in native mode. Compatibility mode pushes the rendering back onto the cpu so it renders in the same way as TRS2006 and those are probably the people who say it doesn't run as well. Additionally it has some new tools to allow you to pick out demanding assets so they can be replaced. Typically there are some nice fences out there that are very demanding in Trainz resources replace them with less demanding types and you get the decent frame rates back.

Memory is important. It's measured in nano seconds not milliseconds like disks, there are 10,000 nano in a milli so trying to run on a 128 mb machines means lots of disk accesses which will really slow you down. Having 2.5 gigs of memory helps keep everything in memory.

There is an overhead in using more than one cpu core, basically you have to make sure everything finishes at the same time so dual core is nice but doesn't give you twice the performance of a single core.

So TS2010 uses the cpu to keep the GPU or video card fed. Yes it runs better on a newer faster cpu but it will also run on a single cpu. Your cpu clocks at 3.0 mhz, my quad clocks at 2.77, it might have better caches but the basic speed isn't that different. The reason cpus went onto dual and quad is its difficult to make a cpu that runs faster than 3 mhz.

Hope that helps and I hope that Amazon keep the $10 price up long enough for you to buy a copy.

Cheerio John

 

[johnwhelan]

Nope the engine of the game was revamped since 2006. The drain on resources is more in 2010. 2010 is a more sluggish game... When you do things. Not a problem on a good computer.
Admiotaddly a few 06 things run in native mode but mostly they run in compablity mode.
Don't they!!
Because they were made for 06 and 06 items run in comparability mode mostly. So you saying that 10 is faster cause it will run everything in native mode is a dream not reality. (Mores the pity ;-))
Further native mode is mostly better apperance but with a 7050 card that is not an option
Further you say 2006 is more demanding than 2010 ??? ??? er check out the system requirements of both games and explain where you are getting your info from?

I create assets for Trainz, the only difference in my work is I use TC3 level steam engine specs rather than pre TC3 engine specs and that's about it for the different versions. The bogeys must be described in a certain way for TC3 but the other versions will accept the same description.

For TS2010 I might use a few more polys and bigger textures since I know that TS2010 will use DXT compression on the textures to reduce the video card memory impact to 25% but there isn't really any other changes.

Most scenery objects are tagged 2.4 but if they use normal mapping TS2010 just does it more efficiently. There really isn't that much difference other than scripts for the different versions. TS2010 does throw up errors that TRS2004 and TRS2006 tried to process but if you fix the errors they run better in TRS2004 and TRS2006 any way.

The biggest impacts on performance are using multiple materials or texture files, this wasn't understood well at first and it is easier to use lots of small texture files in GMAX than put them into one. The other major impact is different scenery objects, there is a 500 poly equivalent load for every asset you load into Trainz in addition to the actual load of the asset. This is reduced somewhat if you have multiple copies of the same asset. This is why two trains passing that have 30 different wagons will often cause a reduction in frame rates. Make it two trains with multiple copies of say five wagons and visually it looks the same but the impact is less.

Info from more than 40 years working with computers with a professional interest in hardware and efficiency plus reading the TS2009 developers forum which is no longer available.

No matter what the machine is Trainz with the wrong combination of assets can bring it to its knees. The recommended machine on the different packs reflects the average machine available at the time more than what was needed to run anything in Trainz.

Cheerio John

 

[JimDep]

$10 on Amazon if you live in the US.

Hope that helps and I hope that Amazon keep the $10 price up long enough for you to buy a copy.

Cheerio John

Thanks John, you response is the most detailed explanation I've seen. That helps a great deal!

Best Wishes and Merry Christmas!

 

[tebee]

I'll add my thanks too John - at least I now understand a bit more about the differences between all the versions and why some say one works better and other people have a different opinion.

Sadly I'm not in the US so I can't take Amazon's offer up - at that price I'd be willing to download it and try.

I'm beginning to think the solution might be to go and get torrents of the various versions and see which one works on my machine, then go and buy that one!

Tom

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

I'm beginning to think the solution might be to go and get torrents of the various versions and see which one works on my machine, then go and buy that one!

Tom

Be VERY VERY Careful what you say:

Code Of Conduct:
...
9. Giving, discussing, requesting, or linking to information that is either directly or indirectly related to obtaining pirated or unauthorized copyrighted materials, serial numbers, serial number generators and No-CD patches may result in an immediate ban.
...

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Code_Of_Conduct

 

[Euphod]

So. I bought 2010 through eBay from

http://cgi.ebay.com/TRAINZ-SIMULATOR...em3f05ec c5d6

It arrived in 5 days, was reasonably priced, (about $ 26.00 USD with shipping), and was sealed and new. Inside the cardboard box the plastic box containing the discs and the manual was sealed as well. It installed without error and the serial number for the game was on the back cover of the manual. The game is at SP2, build #42203. The game does not require the discs inserted in the drive to play. In addition, the game came with a bonus!

When I replaced the plastic game box back into the cardboard box I noticed a second manual in the cardboard box, with a serial number on the back cover different than the one I used to install the game. I guess that may explain those poor folks that post about not having a serial number!

I'm pleased with the transaction, and would recommend it to anyone.

 

[tebee]

Be VERY VERY Careful what you say:

Code Of Conduct:
...
9. Giving, discussing, requesting, ..........

What ? you can get banned for mentioning that these things exist? That seems to be on a par with the US government telling it's employees they shouldn't look at Wikileaks. I'm sure most consenting adults now know that you can obtain most pieces of software by means other than buying them.

But with Trainz it's pretty well useless unless you have a serial number - without access to the download station you can't do anything interesting, which, I must admit worries me a little when I see all these people on here complaining that it's always full.

If they ban me all they will do is upset me and lose a potential customer.

 

[shaneturner12]

WEN does have a point though - a lot of companies frown on people discussing illegal copies of software (and it's against the law to download illegal copies of software, and I know in some places (including the UK) it is possible to be arrested for doing so (the actual act of downloading illegal software) - it's better not to discuss it at all.

Shane

 

[JimDep]

Is the ten dollar, digital Trainz 2010 Engineer's edition from Amazon authorized by Auran? What concerns should there be?

Thanks

 

[shaneturner12]

There is a major concern if you want to be able to run some of the DLC content - that version is the Steam version, and as a result, is not patchable. (This has been discussed in another thread, but I cannot seem to find it)

Shane

 

[Wessex_Electric_Nutter]

What ? you can get banned for mentioning that these things exist? That seems to be on a par with the US government telling it's employees they shouldn't look at Wikileaks. I'm sure most consenting adults now know that you can obtain most pieces of software by means other than buying them.

Err, yes, but the issue here is that employees and us all agree to adhere to the code of conduct when you sign up. (Besides, its not upto me to decide, its upto the moderators to decide on the appropriate action.) If you don't like the code of conduct, then you shouldn't sign up to begin with. If you sign up but don't look at it, you still agree to abide by it, which is the same way as accepting the End User License Agreement when you install software. (When does anyone actually look at it?)

The other point, if you incorporated an EULA that is legally binding, do you expect others to follow it? Especially if you are making content? If so, would you abide by the EULA of Auran's stuff? I can't talk about my content as my content is open for anyone to use, therefore, no EULA. I however, do make a few small requests just for politeness.

By the sounds of things, you are intending to use Trainz as a way of launching a payware career, if I am right in saying. However, you have a few issues to consider and I've given you one of them, which was brought out of your own ideas. And for support, do you intend in incorporating a similar rule?

 

[tebee]

Well to be pedantic, I didn't agree to the EULA to this forum , I was grandfathered in, though I did , I assume, agree to some version on an earlier incarnation of the forum, that was 8 or 9 years ago and I can't remember what it said and I doubt Auran would be able to put their hands on a copy of it now.

That said I do have a tendency to be as subtle Basil Fawlty entertaining a hotel full of Germans so you will have to excuse me if I mention a certain conflict by "accident".

As for doing payware , quite the opposite. Firstly I'm doing fairly obscure stuff(narrow gauge) so doubt I find many takers in an already small marketplace.

I'm intending to make my money by making physical model trains, and the fact that I will already have the 3-d models made me think I might be interesting to do some content creation for Trainz , which is something I wanted to do years ago but found too frustrating.

Granted the polygon count may be to high, but a lot of my stuff is done for small scales(like TTn3) and isn't that well detailed. Others like this haven't got a huge count if I take off details like the rivets.

I'm also a strong supporter of open source and am trying to persuade creators to make their models available - I intend to release my own under a creative commons licence. Copyright protection for 3-d models and/or items produced from them seems to be in doubt anyway.

Tom

 

[wreeder]

Hmmm, to get back to some of your questions.

Yes, you can import your UTC routes and they will run in compatibility mode just fine with a few exceptions for content that broke due to code changes in TRS2004. The most common items are Mike10's animated switches and a few bridges. I have UTC installed on the same PC as TS09 and TS10 and UTC doesn't run as smoothly for me as the newer versions.

The Murchison addon in standalone mode is based on the code of TS2009. As a standalone product it only allows access to driving trains, no surveyor and no adding content through Content Manager. If you install it into either TS09 or TS10 then the game code remains the same as the version you are adding it to and just the Murchison content is added to either version. In other words, you can have TS09 with Murchison or TS10 with Murchison.

William