Old wive's tails, urban legends, and other fairy tales

[sniper297]

Biggest problem I've had as a Trainz n00b is looking for solutions and getting answers that are complete myths. Someone has low framerates and deletes a couple of bush splines, gets better framerates and jumps to the conclusion that splines are bad for framerates, never noticing the ones he deleted were poorly made splines with 16 million polys. The myth gets repeated so often for so many years everyone thinks "I've heard that before, it must be true, The Gospel According To Saint Expert".

One myth that won't die; Got a problem asset that's built in, just delete it from the config.txt KUID table and it won't be in the route anymore. I called one guy on that recently, he claimed it works in TS2009, he just now tried it and it works. :hehe: Okay, I guarantee it does not work in 2010 or 12, now I have TS2009 so let's see.

Test route in 2009, track and assorted buildings.

There's the dependencies list for the route - this is what the KUID table is for.

So open the config and delete a bunch of stuff from the KUID table and save;

If this fairy tale is true, all those buildings should be gone when I open the route, since they're no longer in the KUID table.

Still there. That's because the game does not read the KUID table, the data for these buildings is read from the mapfile.obs. Try delete missing assets and they're still present, save the route and surveyor WRITES to the KUID table. It does not READ the KUID table, it reads from the data files and WRITES to the KUID table depending on what's in the other files.

Back in content manager, KUID table is rewritten by surveyor.

If you're trying to help somebody new, don't just repeat myths that you have heard about, test them yourself first to make sure whoever you heard it from wasn't just repeating something he heard from a five year old kid. :wave:

 

[SD45T-2]

(Senseless post.)

 

[paulzmay]

Thanks Sniper - you should be on Mythbusters...

Paul

 

[ulmer94]

OK, OK, I've been called. I did just try it myself tonight in TS2009 SP4 and it didn't work. I guess I must have dreamed it or something.

I also remember replacing assets as well as deleting assets that way... Oh, well.

EDIT: I did not say I had just tried it, though. Read my post.

EDIT 2: You know, I sure would like to see you debunk that splines-are-hard-on-FPS myth, I've always wondered about that, never tested it. That would be interesting. I think this thread was a very good idea.

 

[paulzmay]

A high poly spline with a short repeat length can very quickly end up being a VERY high poly object. Combine this with the unavoidable additional overhead of calculating the position and deformation of every triangle, and they can be a very significant hit. What this means is not to avoid them, but to be careful in their selection.

Paul

 

[Dermmy]

A high poly spline with a short repeat length can very quickly end up being a VERY high poly object. Combine this with the unavoidable additional overhead of calculating the position and deformation of every triangle, and they can be a very significant hit. What this means is not to avoid them, but to be careful in their selection.

Paul

^ what he said, but he said it better If there's an object that can be used instead, use the object...

The other one is not a 'myth' it's just plain wrong, doesn't get mentioned all that often and gets debunked pretty much every time it is mentioned. Easily disproved, you can delete the ENTIRE kuid table and the route trundles on just fine...

Andy

 

[sniper297]

Probably system dependent, anyone with nuclear powered gaminator 3000 hardware wouldn't see any difference. On the average computer;

https://dc2.safesync.com/FChMvwQ/treetestroutes.zip?a=1MOI53H-1p4

Right click that, save link as, unzip, read the readme, draw your own conclusions. On my system the spline trees return the best framerates.

" I did not say I had just tried it, though. Read my post"

Wasn't you, somebody else said it. And I did try in TS2009 original, SP1, SP2, SP3, and SP4. Maybe it worked in 2006, maybe it never worked and everybody was just smoking some really great stuff.

 

[Ghost42]

Whilst on the subject of myths, does it matter which way the tracks are laid??
Curious Rog

 

[sniper297]

What that affects is which way track objects and trains face when you originally place them. AI traffic trains pay no attention whatsoever to which way the track was originally laid, you need track direction markers or AI routing direction markers (new and improved direction markers from TS2010 on that don't cause false signal aspects) to stop an AI train from taking the wrong track. It does make it easier to place the directional track markers since if the track ribbon was laid in the direction you want the traffic to go the direction markers will automatically face that way, but on long stretches of multiple track it's easier to lay however is the most convenient then rotate the direction markers as needed. I don't know if the AI trains ever actually "preferred" track that was laid in the direction they're going or that's another myth, but in TS2010 and TS12 they'll take either track unless guided by track markers.

 

[Dermmy]

I don't know if the AI trains ever actually "preferred" track that was laid in the direction they're going or that's another myth, but in TS2010 and TS12 they'll take either track unless guided by track markers.

Nope, it never mattered. This 'urban legend' is perpetuated by an on-line tute that gets linked to repeatedly when new users ask about track laying. The bit about track direction is out-and-out balderdash and the once I looked at the tutes out of curiosity I remember thinking that most of it wasn't much better...

What's the old saying? Something about "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"...

Andy

 

[sniper297]

This one;

http://trains.0catch.com/tutorial.html

In the first section. I can't say about 2004 since I got TS2010 about a month after I first got 2004, so my first attempts at AI traffic were in 2010. I link to that tute because I find most of the info extremely helpful, but for 2010 and later (1) AI trains pay no attention to which way the track is laid, (2) AI trains will obey track direction markers, but the AI Routing Direction Marker,<kuid:30501:1013> is a better option for TS2010 and TS12, (3) Drive to or via makes AI trains less psychotic than Navigate to or via, (4) dummy junctions aren't really needed with proper signaling, and (5) invisible signals are a bad idea except in special cases, since the player can't see them it makes for a lot of cornfield meets.

Anyway, if it never worked at all, it's possible the original author read that tidbit someplace and repeated it without testing because it sounded like gospel - which is the whole point of this "senseless" thread.